Kieffer & Bartlett Pollination?

Equil I think that you need to do more things. Thank you for helping the ingrate Turtle. My wife always picks up a painted turtle crossing our long private road and puts him back in the pond about a hundred yards from the road. Well I told her that she is preventing him from going up to the pond above to meet his girlfriend. Just think 100yds = 3 days travel. I told her to take him the other way to the pond and shorten up the time she took away. After all after 2 weeks of travel there won't be much foreplay.

Thanks Equil! Right now I'm resisting looking at those links, other than the PlantFiles. I already spent too much this year and the year is just beginning. I have to start saving my pennies. But I'm going to save those links for when my pennies are saved.

Mark (my dh) really isn't into plants & flowers. So, to help him enjoy the garden too I'm trying to put in some of the few things he does like. He grew up in CA, so I'm starting a tropical garden for him this year. Clearing out for that now. He thinks the carnivorous plants are the coolest, so I'd love to work some of them in also. All we've had so far is the Venus Fly Traps...not much is available around here. Sometime I'll get him some Pitcher Plants and he'll sit outside watching them eat all day! :) Do they have babies or how hard are they to propagate? Mostly I buy 1 or 2 plants of what I want and then propagate the rest myself.

I was thinking I'd need to be able to drain a bog to wash away salt build up since I'll have to water w/ hose water. No rain water collection here YET...but working on it. Come August everything fries if not watered. Are you sure it wouldn't freeze and crack in the winter?

You know, a kiddie pool would be too big for me to start with. A satellite dish....ROTFLOL...would work great, but is way beyond what I need. Maybe a cheap styrofoam cooler from the dollar store would work good. The kiddie pool would be great for next year or a couple years from now.

Do carnivorous plants attract any specific types of animals? Do they deter any animals? Other than insets, obviously.

Hey sofer, we always stop to check out the pouches of dead opossums (make sure there are no babies) just as we always stop to help turtles across the road. We have a shovel in the trunk (to move roadkill off the roadway so Turkey Vultures don't meet their maker trying to dine) and the snappers will latch on and then we can just drag them to the other side of the road. The other turtles we pick up but not a snapper, those can take off a good chunk of your hand. One thing we were always taught was to always move them in the direction they were traveling. Like you said, "she is preventing him from going up to the pond above to meet his girlfriend". Regarding that turtle, it was time for her to move on. Her plastron was no longer concave because she dined on a host of delicacies specially provided for her to fatten her up while she was here and the fungal infection in her neck was basically gone. Other than that she was always sprawled out sunbathing in my expensive aquatic plants and she was destroying them. She's probably in one of the natural ponds on my property or hanging out in a pond on a neighbor's property. She was pretty healthy by the time she took off so I'm not concerned as it was never my intent to keep a wild animal.

No sofer, I don't need anything else on my plate. Seems as if something is always landing on my plate as fast as I clear it off and lick it spit clean.

Hey heathrjoy, most carnivorous plants co-evolved over tens of thousands of years in nutrient deficient environments hence their adaptive traits of capturing prey. Although these plants photosynthesize like any other plant, their roots are very shallow and are basically only there to anchor the plant and uptake water. These plants have a highly sophisticated means by which they intake the nutrients they need to survive and digestive enzymes within the pitchers of Sarracenia enable these plants to not only survive but thrive. Fertilizing these plants is the kiss of death for this reason. Unfortunately, they can't handle tap water either. I shouldn't say that as a blanket statement as there is some well water that I have tested that was well under 100ppm however that is not the norm. Watering these plants with anything other than rain water, distilled water, RO, or RO/DI water will kill them and you would be a very unhappy camper. Native North American carnivorous plants might not be for you right now but there are a host of other wetland species that could handle being watered with tap water from your hose and several very attractive terrestrial orchids come to mind. Look up Platanthera spp. I think you will really like those.

Good news heatherjoy, Venus Fly Traps (Dionaea muscipula) are a North American temperate species just like Sarracenia. They're as American as baseball and apple pie. How about them apples. Soooooo, yes you could work VFTs in with the Sarracenia when you are ready. They certainly aren't a tropical plant although retailers that sell them would have us believe otherwise when they come in their little greenhouse tombs. These plants must have a dormancy or they grow themselves to death or succumb to fungal infections. Seriously, I have quite a few of those growing outside year round. They do just fine with a nice layer of white pine needle mulch or polar fleece. Anything to minimize the amaging effects off the freeze/thaw cycles that will heave them out of the ground.

Propagation of some carnivorous plants... a little bit tricky but I could help you.

Carnivorous plants don't particularly attract any specific types of animals other than those hideously invasive winged rats. Yup, English House Sparrows soon figure out the pitchers contain a free hand out for their nestlings. I can tell you that I have trimmed off pitchers and dissected them to see what was inside and these plants most certainly earn their keep. Most of the pitchers were filled to the brim with everything from wasps, hornets, bees, yellow jackets, and flies to daddy long legs and Japanese Beetles. I even found a Damselfly in one pitcher. There was a small treefrog in one once that was alive and I couldn't bear that so I rescued him but pitcher plants would digest those too.

Last but not least, carnivorous plants don't deter any animals. They're non poisonous. You could toss them in your salad if you wanted and you'd be just fine. Not that they are tasty but you could eat them with no problems if you wanted to do so. I do have a nice recipe for stuffed Nepenthes pitchers but I must admit I could not bring myself to chop off the pitchers on any of our Neps to be able to serve them up for dinner stuffed like a green pepper.

How hungry would I have to be to eat a pitcher plant? Hmm...I think I'd eat worms first. Carnivorous plants really do kinda creep me out, but at the same time I find them fascinating. For some reason they seem like goth plants to me...the plants that should be used to decorate for Halloween.

I don't think sparrows would bother me that much, but I've never been overrun w/ them either. As long as it's not pigeons! I feed finches, the neighbor feeds pigeons. He can't figure out how I get the "cute" birds to come to my feeders...and now I have his pigeons. I do love the cooing sounds tho.

Ok, if these plants will eat stinging insects I'll plant them even if they do give me the willies. If I start out w/ a small bog now, bowl size or a little larger, I should be able to get enough rain water for it. If not I can get distilled. I'm not getting into all the RO stuff, I looked into that for my fish tanks, too much $ and work involved...there's too many other projects going on here right now. Maybe someday tho.

So, set me straight. If you were setting up a small container bog, how would you do it? I have a planter that I used last year for a bog and I just dumped it since I didn't think I'd be doing one this year. I didn't realize I could grow VFTs outdoors. I know most of these aren't tropicals, but they do look it, or will at least blend well with what I'm putting in Mark's garden.

Ok, I've got my pot with no holes in it. It's copper looking to match my decor, that's important! lol. I've got tons of C. Sphag Peat Moss. I have one VFT that's not looking so good. It's tiny, of course. Got it at Wal-Mart a couple months ago. I'm sure it needs to eat and is starving. Every one I've tried to repot or divide has died. It's hard to find info on them...or good info. I'd love to grow some nice ones for Mark to be able to watch eating outside. He works 13 hour days and isn't home much, it's nice to see him relax when he is home.

Ok, basic questions....any stones on bottom of pot? Do I add anything to the peat like sand, etc? Should I moisten the peat before putting it in the pot so I don't end up w/ a brick of peat that's just damp on top? The pot is prolly 8-12" deep, how deep should I make the peat?

And, any ideas what else I could plant in the bog till I get some other carnivors? CRUNCH!! Would a Bromeliad die in pure peat soil?

I rescued a turtle once. I don't usually touch reptiles. I don't know if turtles are even considered reptiles, but I consider them reptiles and I don't touch reptiles!!

I was on my way home from work one spring afternoon, speeding down the highway......zoom. Cars are passing me by going the other direction....zoom. I look up ahead and there's a little turtle hiding in his shell right on the yellow line. A semi flies by him.......zoomy, zoom, zoom.....his shell rocks all over the place. Then he starts mosey-ing across the road again. He was actually heading towards my brother's property so I pulled over and ran out on the highway and PICKED HIM UP!!! Oh, good greif. Now I'm standing in the middle of the highway holding a reptile, doing the "I'm touching a reptile dance." All this in my good work clothes too. He wasn't hurt, amazingly. Ran back to the car and couldn't decide what to do. Put him on the passenger side floor. He crawled under the seat. Thought that was good...I couldn't see him, he couldn't see me...that would work! I drove home and didn't see him the whole 5 mile trip. Got home, ran to house and yelled for hubby to come see what I had in car. He said it better not be an animal. Uh-oh. I told him I didn't plan on keeping it. He came to car and said there's nothing there. It wouldn't come out from under the seat. The seat was electric and wouldn't move. He got turtle out. Put turtle in a box. Really looked at him now. He was neat looking. Mail man came along, looked at turtle, said it was a snapper. I disagreed, didn't try to bite me. He put a piece of paper near it's face and it chomped it. Hmmm, how about that. But, then again, what animal ever liked the mailman? Now I want to know what kind of turtle it is. Take it to my friend who loves turtles. She has no clue. She asks her dad, he says painted. I decide not to believe any of them. He's just a nice turtle and needs to go home now. I call my sis-in-law and tell her I'm bringing the turtle to their pond, since that's where he was headed...they cross the highway to get from the river to my brother's pond to mate. Sis-n-law flips out, starts telling me I'm going to lose a finger cuz all those turtles are snappers!! I decide people are pyscho. Take turtle to the pond, let him loose. He waddles around for a second, eats a bit, then plunks into the water and is gone...zoom. The electric seat in my car never works again. The turtle bit clean thru the wires.

Ah ha ha ha ha! Thanks for my good belly laugh for the day. Really sorry about your electric car seat. Really glad you didn't lose a finger handling that snapper. Here's one for ya. I don't see too well. Haven't been able to see well in a long time which is one of the reasons why I don't like to drive at night so I always make my husband (4-eyes for hubby- we're talking trifocals) drive at night. The two of us are whizzing home from a cocktail party down a country road after dark and I spot a decent sized turtle in the road. He whizzes right over it. I tell him we have to go back and get it over to the other side of the road before somebody turns it into a road pancake. He drives on and tells me he's too darn tired to be messing with a turtle. I guilt him into turning around and going back. Here we are pulled over on the side of the road with nothing in the blazer to get it over to the other side of the road save a mag light if it is a snapper. Ok, now he's really irked and I'm telling him he's doing a good thing. We grab one of the floor maps figuring if it is a snapper that it can latch on to that and we can drag it across. Ok, here we are the two of us... out on the road in star light with the headlamps on the turtle... him in a suit & tie and me in hose & high heels. We get closer and it isn't moving or even trying to get away. Husband is really irritated and comments that it's probably already dead and what a waste of time. I comment that he doesn't have anything better to do other than to go to bed when we get home so what's the big deal. He grumbles more under his breath and I retort something that was probably sarcastic. We get closer and the turtle still isn't moving. We are now about 10' away from it and my husband starts cracking up laughing. I think he's lost it. I still haven't made the connection. He laughs harder until I am standing right over the top of it. It isn't a turtle, it is a headlight to an older car that is in the middle of the road with the convex side up. My husband picks up the headlamp and hands it to me saying, "here ya go honey, here's your rescue turtle". We still have that headlamp around here somewhere. I felt like an idiot.

The bog should be at least 18" deep but preferably 24" for best wicking up of water. I'd recommend anything that isn't metal. Once again, these plants can't handle "supplements'. You don't need gravel as a base. Your mix should be about 2/3-3/4 Canadian Sphagnum Peat and 1/3-1/4 rinsed sand. Yes, it needs to be rinsed sand... again these plants can't handle "supplements" of anything. Easy way to rinse sand is to take a bucket and run your garden hose into it and swish it around with your hand until the water runs clear draining it off as you swish. Yes, you can use tap water from your garden hose for this but do the final swish and then flush with distilled water. Mix together and add rain water until you have a mix that is the consistency of a raw German Cake batter. Fill up your mini in-ground bog and that's about it. I do add a bag full of cut white pine needles to my in-ground bog mixes but it's not necessary. I'd fill up to about a half an inch from the top with your medium. I always leave the center of my bogs slightly elevated for plants that don't like it as moist with lower areas toward the edge. I generally stick an 18" piece of 4" pvc somewhere into the bog to be able to water without disturbing my babies.

None of these plants will make it above ground no matter what you do unless you are a zone 7 or warmer and even that can be debatable so you are going to have to dig out a hole to recess your bog in the ground. I set mine in sand and leave the lip about an inch above grade.

I don't know if you have a sump pump pit discharge but that water is safe to use for carnivorous plants too. I have rubbermaid wash tubs under two of my downspouts from my gutters. Two I have connected to rain barrel drums. I have an RO/DI and I agree that you don't need to go that route as the equipment is expensive when Ma Nature provides you with the best already. All you have to do is find some way to collect it. I don't know if you have grocery stores in they area that sell RO water but around here most sell distilled water and many have RO machines where you can bring your own bottles and fill up for about 75 cents a gallon. I find distilled water from WalMart to be perfectly fine at around 50 cents a gallon as long as it isn't fortified with fluoride or calcium for baby formula.

I can't answer your question about how a Bromeliad would do in this mix.

HE he he he, I haven't even finished your post yet. I just got to the part that it was a headlamp. That really sounds like something I'd do. Except Mark would see the benefit in telling everyone, plus I'm sure I would have fallen and rolled thru the mud. Don't feel bad, I see things all the time! LOL! Things I think are animals end up being trees, rocks, bushes, etc. I usually end up missing the real animals because I'm trying to find my camera...or am the only one who realizes we are smack dead between the cute baby & mama elk that are calling to the daddy elk....time to start chucking the kids in the car!! Everyone else was in a daze. They weren't even my kids! What an experience that was!

Ok, I need a different planter then. Maybe just a bucket w/ the handle taken off, I'll come up with something that'll work. For sand are you talking about just regular silica sand? On the PVC pipe you use, do you drill holes in it, or just use it to water to the bottom? Maybe drilling holes half way up would work good but still not disturb the plants?

No RO/DI water at grocery stores here. I WISH!! How nice that would be. I'll probably just pick some up at Wal-Mart. We haven't even had much rain this spring, not that I'm complaining. I have a big old rubbermaid container outside to catch rainwater. I forgot to put the lid back on after the last rain, so I've lost most of it now.

I'll ask on the Brome forum and see what they say. I just wondered because if I remember correctly (and I may not!) Bromes get most of their nutrients thru their leaves and their roots are mostly for anchoring them. Some Crypt Bromes mixed w/ some VFTs and some Pitcher Plants could make a pretty wild display in a trop garden!

Thanks for all the help! I really appreciate it! ;-)

My husband did tell everyone. He even proudly displayed the "turtle" on the fireplace mantle for several months.

I've been using the tube sand from Home Depot or Menards lately. It's coarser. I have been known to dip into the kids' sandbox though from time to time when I run low. Shhh, don't tell anyone. I can always tell right away because little green army men end up appearing in my medium staring up at me helplessly.

Yep, you're right about the Brome. Drat. I guess I got too excited about how cool they'd all look together and wasn't thinking clearly. Can't remember who it was, but someone once called that a "flower tizzy." Guess I was having a carnivorous plant/crypt tizzy. Now there's a combo! No wonder I've felt so strange all day.

Oh, c'mon, you've got to make a display w/ the little green army men in it!! Yes, one where they are being eaten by the plants! Half eaten army men being attacked trying to fight off the evil plant invaders...they are trying to defend their home planet from the alien menace, but their weapons are useless. Pour on some red paint for blood...you get the idea. When you have a really boring day you can rearrange the battlefield. Oooooh, who's winning now? The Earthlings have a new weapon, Alkaline Soil to the rescue! The kids will love it and won't miss the toys at all.

Ok, so there's a peek into my head and why I find these plants a tad bit creepy.

Here's another photo from another friend-

And another photo from a friend-

I'm an unapologetic carnivore. I eat fish and poultry and every once in a while I even eat red meat. My plants are unapologetic insectivores. Now, what were you saying about these plants giving you the creeps? You have to admit that they are exceedingly more beautiful than a wave of tall bearded iris. And, they are indigenous to the United States. It doesn't get better than that!

One more photo from the friend who took the first photo above-

One more aerial view photo and then I will leave you to determine exactly how big of an in ground bog you want-

Want? LOL!!! Want has NOTHING to do with it!! I want a couple kiddie pools full of these! But reality dictates that I must stay within my finances...so I'll stick with a bucket sized bog for now. :-(

Ok, ok, ok. I'm looking at the sites....and now I want to spend money I'm not allowed to. See what you did? Yes, I blame you, Equil!!

I love the Pitcher Plants...don't think I'll call them anything but that anytime soon...the spelling is too confusing for me. I like the hybrids with the lacy look to them...very delicate looking.

I also liked this little one. I'm calling him Ping. Mor. (I know what it means and that's all that really matters).

Go ahead and blame me. Guilty as accused! I can live with an enabler label.

The photo you posted of your Butterwort appears to be Pinguicula moranensis based on the color and shape of the petals. It's pretty blurry but that color makes a statement. Looks as if you are growing it in good natural light based on the color of the leaves. I grow mine with supplemental T5s so my leaves come out rosy. I don't know if you are aware of this but your Butterwort plant is a great gnat catcher.

Why heathrjoy, it would appear you are a carnie. So nice of you to come out of the closet and post a photo of one of your plants. Those Butterworts are really wonderful plants and the particular species you have is a Mexican Ping and is very easy to grow on a window sill.

So reality dictated and you are pulling in the $$$ reins, eh. Yup. Reality has been dictating to me too lately. Here's a photo of a plant at a website that I am peeing in my plants to purchase. I think I am going to get it as a birthday present but if I don't, I will break down and order it myself. Scroll way down to the bottom of the link to the Green Section-Anthocyanin Free Sarracenia and look for Sarracenia "Green Monster'- brings a tear to my eye that I don't own that one but I do grow most of everything else he has listed save the 'Red Rocket' and 'Red Flame'. I have others that are rarer and considerably more difficult to get one's hands on but I've been wanting that 'Green Monster' for a while.

http://www.pitcherplant.org/catalog.htm#Sarracenia

Are we having fun yet or what! I just love getting new addicts. Remember, once you go soggy... you never go back!

I love it!! Put an orange rug on that puppy and he'd be Beaker from the Muppets! "Meep, meep-meep!" ROTF!! Those look soooo kewl, I love that green color...is that chartruese (sp)?? Yowie. I guess I have a lot more homework to do.

That pic above isn't mine, sorry to say. :-( I swiped it from one of the sites you posted. I just thought it was too cute, being so tiny then having the single pink flower....kind of like waving a neon flag saying, "Hey, I'm down here, don't step on me!"

The cobra site is out of seeds till fall. Any idea where I might find some somewhere else?

Ok, there's got to be a forum on DG specifically for carnivorous plants, right? Where is it? LOL

Ok, I found it, maybe we should move this over there...just so we don't confuse anyone here. I don't want someone coming looking for pear info and end up being freaked out by bloody army men!

Don't you guys ever go out in the garden. I have been out till 10pm tonight and now I'm tired. Well done Equil with the turtle. I have never seen a possom HBC to save babies. I have treated some adults and look out they are ferocious! Beautiful pitcher pictures.

I took today off from the garden, wore myself out the last 3 days. I was up till 3 am transplanting last night....and now it's bedtime for today!

Nighty nite! Don't the OOOOOOOooooopossums bite!!

Three cheers for saving the headlamp in the middle of the road! I've heard of a couple people who have been able to save babies from pouches. Doesn't hurt to look.

I usually run in and out of the house gardening to take breaks and post but I was off work all last week and couldn't garden so I've been bored out of my gourd.