Kieffer & Bartlett Pollination?

We got 2 Dwarf Pear trees this spring so they could pollinate each other. One is a Bartlett, the other is a Kieffer. The Kieffer has blooms and the Bartlett shows no signs of blooms, but has been knocked over by the wind a few times (they are still in pots and not planted yet). All of our research said that these two would bloom at the same time to pollinate each other. Did we misunderstand something?

Will these two Pear trees work together or not? If we should replace one, which one would you recommend replacing? What would you recommend replacing it with that would be easily grown in zone 5 and not be overly expensive? I need a dwarf variety.

I'm wondering if it's possible that the Bartlett was grown somewhere down south and has already gone through it's bloom for this year. We purchased these trees at Lowe's, so who knows where they came from!

Any help is greatly appreciated, including any links to info. We were hoping to plant these this week, but don't want to put them in and then have to replace one.

Thanks!
Heather

I am waiting on the same thing. I have a 5 year planted 3 way tree. The bartlett branch died and so I bought another Bartlett and hope they blood at the same time. Never have had any pears on the 3 way.

Soferdig, are you saying that your Keiffer and Bartlett never bloomed at the same time either? What other type of Pear is there in your tree, and does it's bloom coincide with the others?

I didn't have a Keiffer, I had a red bartlett(it died) , Comice, Bosc and Anju. All grafted on some unknown root stock. I assumed I needed a bartlett cause it is a good pollinator.

I have a Kieffer and a Bartlett in the ground for years in Louisiana. They have never bloomed at the same time.

I wouldn't even try Bartlett here, as it's so exsquisitely susceptible to fireblight, that its demise would be a surety, early on; so, I can't help you with the bloom overlap, but LOL has pretty well answered that for you.

Having purchased these at a big box store, you can't even be certain that they are indeed the varieties they were labeled as. Those big merchandisers often purchase over-runs or 'seconds' from the big propagators(like in & around McMinnville TN), and affix their own labels, regardless of true identity. They don't figure the average homeowner is gonna know the difference in Keiffer and Bartlett. They may be true-to-name, but don't count on it.

based on what the big kahoona says... i may not really have a kieffer or a bartlett either. i am pretty sure i bought at least two of my pears from big box nurseries and franks nursery and crafts [out of business as of last year] comes to mind as does steins. i wouldn't put it past either of those nurseries to have been selling exactly what home depot, lowes, menards, and walmart sells. sort of a moot point though because i think bartlett is a european pear and is at least partially self pollinating but it really should be co-planted with bosc, anjou, or red bartlett for best fruit set. there are probably a few more out there that could be used for cross pollination. my bosc and my bartlett are both blooming right now. the kieffer might be partially self pollinating too but should be co-planted with seckle or maybe it was comice or orient. i have a kiefer and i also have a pollinator for it but i forgot which one i selected. what it all boils down to is which pears have flowers open at the same time so pollinators such as bees can do their thing, now, keifer is allegedly resistant to fireblight.

I was planning on waiting for my 3 way to bloom and then go to the Big Box and get one that was blooming then. But my scotch background couldn't keep me from buying the $6 bartlett. If it doesn't bloom at the same time oops. Get one that does.

Equisetum,
Keiffer is fireblight resistant - that doesn't mean it won't get FB - 'cuz it does, but it 'takes a lick and keeps on ticking'. I can prune FB out or leave it be on the Keiffer - I don't think the tree really cares. Yeah, it'll lose most of a branch here and there, but it's like, 'Ah, no big deal', shrugs it off and keeps on trucking. I see ancient old Keiffer trees around the country, all with blackened, blighted branches here and there in their canopy, but year in and year out, they continue to produce prodigious crops of fruit.
Most folks denigrate Keiffer fruits as all but inedible and only suitable for canning or for use as projectiles for a trebuchet or catapult, but growing up in the buckle of the fireblight belt, Keiffer was the pear I had ready access to, and as such, to me, it's what a pear is supposed to be - hard, juicy, flavorful, and, yes, gritty. As much as i like the soft, aromatic fruits of persimmon and pawpaw, I just find those soft, 'butter' pears to be disgustingly insipid; I'd rather eat an excessively overripe banana.

I always overdo things - went overboard planting apples when I first started out; had over 60 varieties at one time, before I realized that unless I was committed(and I'm not) to constant spraying, I wasn't going to get decent fruit. Pears, on the other hand, are spray-free, and almost care-free; I've now got close to 30 varieties grafted and growing, and unfortunately, most of the European types are turning out to be the 'butter' types. Now, instead of figuring out when to pick each variety to best allow it to ripen correctly to that soft stage, I've got to figure out how early I can pick them so that they're still firm but flavorful, the way I like 'em.

At least half of my pears are still too young to bear, and I've not really paid much attention to bloom times. With as many as I have, there're usually at least a couple with compatible bloom periods at any given time to get the job done. Guess with only a couple, though, it's of greater concern.
Pears are perhaps THE easiest thing to graft - we sometimes kid that you can throw the scions at the rootstock and they'll 'take'. It's a pretty simple undertaking to graft a limb or two of appropriate cross-pollenating varieties into an established tree to accomplish the task.

sofer, i would have bought the 6 dollar bartlett too, i am weak.

i like my kiefer and i don't particularly care if it is gritty. that's the pear we all grew up on and it ended up poached, baked, canned, in cobblers, in tarts, in jellies, in fruit salads, and even in a squash/yam recipe that i loved. to me, kiefer = pear.

here's how i tell if a pear is ripe- i pluck one from the tree and taste it. if it's ripe i eat the rest of it. if it isn't i pitch it out into the yard and something will finish it off.

i'm done with apples. they're too fru fru and as far as i am concerned they are to fruit trees what roses are to perennials in this area. i'm going to keep what i have but other than that the only addition will be another honeycrisp or a honeygold or candycrisp from starks. any problems with those you know of/ i'm done with all plums other than those which are some semblance of disease resistant in this area. for that matter i'm going to be swapping out cherries for peaches. i am incredibly impressed with reliance and contender. of course i am adding a few more pawpaw and persimmon but those are spread out and not being planted in my little orchard.

i thought about grafting a few months ago and have changed my mind, i'd probably end up stabbing myself.

by the way lucky, what did you tell me to plant with the kiefer for pollination because that's what i would have planted. why is bosc sticking in the back of my head.

heather, keep the keifer. i'll send you a bunch of pear recipes if you're interested. i can cook... when i want to. i just prefer to play in the dirt lately.

Equilibrium, how about sharing two pear recipes with all of us.

stuffed acorn squash is simple and easy and kids love it. cut your acorn squash in half and scrape out the seeds and such. place right side up in a baking dish and set aside. dice a few apples and saute those in butter for a few minutes. dice a few pears and toss in a bowl. to the diced pears work in raisins, your sauteed apples, brown sugar, a dash of nutmeg, and a dash of cinnamon. place a tsp of butter in each acorn squash cavity then fill with your mix. i always melt a little butter and brush the entire surface of the acron squash in addition to the t of butter in the cavity, bake at 325 for about 45 minutes or so. you can add liquor and nuts to this mix if you want.

poached pears is another really simple recipe. peel 8 pears. try to be careful so you don't butcher them or smash them. rub lemon juice on the pears and set aside. in a saucepan add- 4 cups of red wine, 1 cup of brown sugar, 3 cinnamon sticks, 2 stars anise, and 10 whole garlic cloves. when this begins to simmer, add your pears. continue simmering until the pears are soft which is about a half hour. remove from heat and refrigerate over night. you can slice the pears and add them to the top of warm gingerbread with a dab of cool whip or you can serve them whole with a custard sauce. i go for the custard sauce when raspberries or strawberries are in season and the gingerbread the rest of the year.

my girlfriend makes a poached pear recipe with a chocolate sauce that was really great. she pulled the recipe off the internet and i know i saved that e-mail... somewhere.

i have a great pear bread pudding recipe but i need to go and get my recipe card because i don't know the recipe off the top of my head. for canning recipes, somebody else will have to contribute because my mom was the one who canned and i never really got into canning. those canned pears were so good. far better than anything you could pick up off a shelf at the grocery store. i wonder if my aunt might have directions on how to can the pears. her recipe would most likely be the same as my mother's recipe because they were sisters in law. come to think of it, i remember a cranberry pear relish from when i was a kid that my grandmother made. that recipe is probably lost forever. there was also some sort of a pear muffin recipe that they used too. that could have just been one of those deals where they tossed pears in to the mix instead of another fruit. now i will have to call my aunt. everybody seemed to have apple and pear trees when i was growing up.

If it was a recommendation from me, it probably was Orient or Pineapple, as I'm particularly fond of those varieties that have proven themselves to persist in the hot, humid, FB-endemic Southeast.
I've never recommended Bosc to anyone - I don't grow it, and won't.

say lucky, does your wife can pears?

i don't recall ever having purchased a pear called pineapple. maybe that mystery pear out there is an orient. so many trees, so little brain cell activity left to remember what i've stuck in the ground around here the last 5 years.

Here's the pear bread pudding recipe-

butter to grease baking pan

Pudding-
2 loaves white bread
8 large eggs
3 pears
7 cups milk
1 cup whipping-style cream
2 2/3 cups sugar
4 tablespoons vanilla extract
1 tsp cinnamon
1/2 cup finely chopped walnuts

Sauce:
2 sticks of butter
1 cup sugar
4 tablesppons cognac
1/2 cup water
1 tsp nutmeg
2 eggs
1 1/2 cups whipping-style cream

cube the bread and lay it out in the greased baking pan. dice your pears and spread them out on top of your bread cubes. mix your eggs, milk, cream, sugar, vanilla, and cinnamon and pour over the top of your bread cubes and pears. let that mix soak in for an hour or so then top with your walnuts and place in the oven at 375 for about an hour.

for the sauce, beat the eggs and set them aside. now melt the butter in a saucepan and add your sugar, cognac, water, and nutmeg. mix well and continue to stir until it comes to a boil. add the egg and let it cook until it thickens. take off the burner and let it cool. add your whipping cream and stir that in. pour over the bread pudding. that's it.

there ya go liveoaklady, three recipes. you know who cooks better than me... V V's wife. I bet she could give lover boy a few pear recipes to post for us.

My wife, can? That's a big noper.
She'll make a big batch of blackberry jam about every 3 or 4 years, but that's it.

Guess I could do it - and may get around to it at some point in time, as I inherited my mom's pressure canner. But, for now, we just eat them; mostly fresh off the tree, but I did dry some slices last year.

I inherited my mom's pressure canner when she died too. i'm sort of in the same boat as you. I'd like to get around to trying it some day.

I've often wondered about dehydrating pears. i saw a handy dandy machine at walmart that looked interesting but i never bought it. how were the dried pears?

Tasty, if a bit chewy. Think these were some excess Asians - probably Shinko, but might have been some of the surplus Keiffers.
Don't have a commercial dehydrator - but I keep meaning to get one. I'll probably go for an Excalibur - it's the 'Cadillac' of dehydrators. I did mine on a big food-service tray in the cab of the farm truck, sitting out in the pasture behind the barn.

if you were able to dehydrate them properly on a service tray in the truck, why buy a cadillac dehydrator? you have never struck me as the cadillac type but i suppose you could set a tray out on the seat of a cadillac as easily as you could set a tray out in the cab of a truck. just kidding but seriously, if they are dehydrating fine inside a vehicle, why pay for the excaliber?

My mother's favorite of all her pear trees was the Pineapple Pear because it made the best pear preserves. With the Pineapple Pear she always added a cherry and a slice of lemon in the jar to "make it pretty."
I inherited her non-electric pressure cooker and every year I promise myself I will make preserves. She really loved doing that and would "put up" about 100 quarts--in August in our Louisiana heat, in a hot kitchen and no air-conditioning. She had Kieffer and Pineapple as her favorites.
Those pears are so hard to peel and core but she made it seem so easy.

Man I was working all day and I am getting ready for bed but now I have to go make some bread/pear pudding. Wow Equil that sounds great!
Oh yeah it must be nice to get fresh fruit when it is still warm. I love dehydrated fruit any type. I remember one kayak trip I went on and ate most of my food out of the ocean. Well all that protein make me CRAVING FRUIT and I had none. I have never paddled with out dehydrated fruit. Oh, watch out how much you eat at once or look out.

The pressure cooker I inherited is non electric too. liveoaklady... you didn't by any chance get passed down any "how tos" on canning pears did you?

Sofer, you will like that pudding recipe.

I too, have learned my lesson as pertains to eating a tad too many dehydrated fruits.

The only pears we have luck growing down here is the good old sand pear. They are hard and gritty but when cooked down to make a cobbler they are delicious.

Here's the skinny on Keiffer, from the NCGR Pyrus collection.
I don't agree with all their description, as I do find it quite tasty, right off the tree, and I don't find it to taste like a potato.

"Description: This cultivar of pear is more common than any other pears in southern North America. Kieffer's seed parents include the Sand Pear of China and the Bartlett. It is named after Peter Kieffer of France who lived at Roxborough, Pennsylvania. It first fruited in 1863 and has been established as the standard by which other cultivars of the group are judged.

The tree of Kieffer is medium in size. It is sensitive to cold temperature, but, it endures heat the best and is the least susceptible to blight. Fruits mature in late October and November. Sometimes it bears pears of small sizes, even when under the best care, and is often self-sterile. Its skin is greenish-yellow, often blushed dull red, with numerous large russet dots. Its flesh is fairly juicy, tender, but not fully buttery. Unlike most pears, which can be eaten off of the tree, Kieffer is fit to eat only in culinary preparations because of its potato-like flavor. But, it retains the shape, color, and f lavor well when canned."

I could dry more - and faster - in a commercial dehydrator - but it would require more embodied energy - electricity to run the heat unit and fan. Won't have to worry about that this year, though. We had a major hailstorm about 3 weeks ago that beat almost every blossom and fruitlet - and lots of leaves, as well - off almost every fruit tree in the orchard. Mulberries, blueberries, blackberries and a few cherries will be all the fruit I'll have this year.

Thanks for the recipes, they sound great!

My dh planted the trees yesterday. We'll see what happens with them. Hopefully we'll get some fruit...enough for those recipes anyway! The neighbors are all excited about getting free fruit. We also put in 2 apples and 2 plums. We'll be putting in grapes, blueberries, and some raspberries too. Our neighbors are so happy about all of this, but haven't realized yet that we've pretty much giving up veggies for fruit...at least for this year. Perennials are soooo much easier!

Now I just need a Dwarf Banana that I can overwinter indoors to make my fruit salad complete.

Gosh Lucky, really sorry about the hail. We got a brief period of hail this past Sunday but it didn't do nearly the damage I expected.

Musa you say? Good Luck!

I know that Musa Basjoo (I think that's the correct spelling) is hardy in my zone, but doesn't bear edible fruit. There is at least one dwarf Musa that can be grown in a pot indoors during the winter that does bear edible fruit. It may need grow lights during winter, but that's no big deal...how many of us do NOT have grow light set up during winter? I always have them. I actually have an extra bedroom set up for my plants now...any guests would have to sleep on the floor in my jungle during the winter! LOL

I just have to convince my hubby that I could grow fresh nanas that he could eat. I've found the trees available in 1 gallon pots for around $11. If it doesn't work out, what is an $11 loss? We've all wasted way more than that on frivolous things before! It's worth a try, but I might not get to try it this year.

Heathrjoy,

Dwarf Cavendish, Dwarf Red, and Dwarf Orinoco all stay under about 10' or so. Super Dwarf Cav gets only maybe 3-4'. (I won't swear to these heights!)

I grow the first 3 in the GH and the DC is the most vigorous, the Dwarf Red is the prettiest. All make desert bananas.

Remember, bananas hate winter. But they're still easier to grow than citrus. SB

I hate my basement!! I was so thrilled when I got to take over the extra bedroom and get out of the basement. Metal Halide, huh? Dh uses those for his projector TV he built. Maybe I'll have to swipe a few if he has extras.

I have a tiny gh that I love. We don't heat it in the winter and it's only about 3' tall. I don't think putting nanas in there would work.

I have no interest in growing citrus. I'm the only one who would eat them and I couldn't eat that much.

Somewhere I have the name of the Dwarf Nana I want written down, I'll have to look it up. It's small enough that I figured it'll be portable. I just think it would be the coolest thing to grow your own nanners, especially in zone 5!

Hey Heathrjoy,

Those metal halides can cause fires. You might want to make sure you have the proper fixture before you go swiping any of those. a 400 should do jist fine by you over a 200 gallon kiddie pool. Expansion properties dear, expansion properties!

check out the cold hardy Basjoo Banana here-
http://www.eldonaccess.com/displayProductDocument.hg?productId=7&categoryId=2

It is the Super Dwarf Cav that I was looking at. Found it here small for $11 http://www.aandbtropicals.com/page20.html it's the next to last one on the page.

I know the metal halides can cause fires. Dh has a fan on his whenever it's on. I'd have to have him set it up for me.

What do you grow in your pools? I've read some folks use them for winter sowing. I never considered them for indoor use. I have an old one I use to bath my dogs in the summer...they are afraid of it, LOL. How many drainage holes do you put in them?

I grew up with pressure cooked meals and never did anything blow up. The pressure relief valve at the top works simply and safely. I have used them early in vet med to sterilize my surgical packs and never did they blow up. It is a very great way to can and cook tender juicy meats and fruits to be canned in the cooker.

I grow carnivorous and insectivorous plants as well as native wetland species in the kiddie pools. I also use them to overwinter some aquatic plants. I don't put any drainage holes in the bottoms of the kiddie pools. You can use them for virtually anything. Cheap self contained grow stations.

Equil we know you have the turtle slide one and sit down in the basement hot tubbing with your Insectivorous friends. Pass the flies please. LOL

Oh no, I actually thought about buying those because they were on sale but decided against that style because the little slide took up space. I almost bought that style again last year because an Eastern Painted Turtle found her way to me and I needed to keep her long enough to beaf her up and treat her for a fungal infection. My other choices to contain her were a jacuzzi and a whirlpool tub inside the house. I ended up leaving her be in one of my preforms out front and then one day the ingrate took off leaving me with a very expensive tube of ointment from an exotic animal vet.

My plants have very discerning tastes, they like flightless fruitflies and pinhead crickets. yum yum.

From pear recipes to "pass the flies." Yum yum is right!

I guess if you're growing bog & aquatic plants you wouldn't want drainage. Great idea tho. Even better idea for me would be to bury the kiddie pool and turn that area into a bog, leaving access to a drain for it to leach out salts, etc. and to drain it for the winter. What great ideas you have!

Your kiddie pool suggestion gave me another idea when the winter sowing came up. I was injured earlier this year and couldn't get all my seeds started. Of course, that's left me in a mess now...no plants! I didn't budget to buy everything so that's out of the question. We have some majorly big areas to fill up this year. Solution is NOT to plant in the kiddie pools...I'd have to purchase too much soil. But I can use one medium sized lasagna bed I started last year that's not planted yet to start my seeds (sowing in situ). No hardening off time to worry about, no potting up from cell packs to bigger pots over and over, just straight from the bed to their new home! Thanks for the brainstorm. I don't know why I didn't think of it sooner, it was right in front of me the whole time! In a couple hours I can have most of my seeds planted. They will still be later than I wanted, but better late than never! Now I feel like I'm back on track and have a plan again.

PS......can't you see my dogs being afraid of my new bog garden because they can smell the kiddie pool (their old bathtub) that's buried under the ground?

I just caught that... pears to pinheads. Pretty funny actually.

If you are going to create a bog using the kiddie pool, don't slash any holes for drainage in the bottom. Bogs are nutrient deficient environments that are little ecosystems unto themselves that meet the cultural requirements of specific plants. Basically; you'd be filling the kiddie pool with Canadian Sphagnum Peat, rinsed sand, and possibly white pine needles and there would be no need to worry about salts or draining it for the winter.

There are lots of people who recess kiddie pools into the ground to create their bogs so they can grow bug biting plants. More use epdm liners but I've seen everything from old bathtubs and whirlpools to aquariums, stock tanks, and old satellite dishes used to sink in the ground to create bogs. Anything goes! And soon.... heathrjoy could be the proud new momma of her own "Little Shop Of Horrors".

Here's where you can pick up some healthy and affordably priced plants that would be able to be grown outside year round in your zone with a little mulch-
Dangerous Plants- http://www.dangerousplants.com/
Look for Sarracenia. Most of those should do well for you in an inground bog.

Once you go soggy, you never go back! Beware, carnivorous plants are addictive because they are so beautiful.

I just realized he has a Sarracenia kit for $25 that includes these plants-

1 x Dixie Lace
1 S. leucophylla 'Tarnock'
1 S. x Judith Hindle
1 S. x rubra (complex)
1 S. x catesbaei

That's an unbeatable deal.

Here's another source for healthy and affordable Saracenia-
Sarracenia Northwest- http://www.cobraplant.com/

Oh please go soggy!

Here's a peak at some photos of Sarracenia that we have here in the PlantFiles- http://davesgarden.com/pf/adv_search.php?searcher%5Bcommon%5D=&searcher%5Bfamily%5D=&searcher%5Bgenus%5D=Sarracenia&searcher%5Bspecies%5D=&searcher%5Bcultivar%5D=&searcher%5Bhybridizer%5D=&search_prefs%5Bsort_by%5D=rating&images_prefs=both&Search=Search

Wait until you scroll down at that link and start clicking on the images and see how knock down gorgeous these plants are!