Need tree ideas to correct my driveway monoculture

Hello. Bear with me while I post 3-4 pics. There is a question at the end...

We bought our house 9 years ago. At that time, the drive was lined with some 25 15-20' tall Colorado Blue Spruce. I should have seen it coming, because already when we moved in, two of the trees had been sawed off at the base and removed. Well, to make a long story short, after staking, spraying, fertilizing, horticultural consultations, samples to the extension office, etc, these 25 trees were pruned with a backhoe due to some combination of decline and disease.

Wanting to preserve the "allee" look to the drive, and failing to hear or heed any warnings against monoculture, I replaced all of these trees with Ulmus parvifolia. Yeah, I know...but I was following the advice of dear Dr. Dirr who fell all over himself in the 5th edition of the Manual praising this tree.

Well, to quote Lee Corso, "Not so fast, my friend." I have found only a handful of seedlings. But I have lost about 6 trees to some type of borer. Further, the tree is occasionally prone to producing bark-trapping narrow branch angles. Don't get me wrong, most of the trees are beautiful, and quick-growing. Most of the trees planted at 3' are now 15-20' tall. But I replaced three this winter and two more are gone or going.

Here is a pic.

These U. parvifolia are undoubtedly seedlings, quite variable in habit, from droopy:

...to upright:

Today I spent 2 hours with shovel, axe, chainsaw, truck and chain, removing one of the dead trees. And now I'm looking at replacing 2 more. I'm thinking, there is already considerable variation in size and habit...why not choose a different tree? Can I begin to put an end to my driveway monoculture and still preserve what's left of the "allee" look to the drive by using trees of similar habit? Which trees?

So far, Zelkova is the only one I've come up with. Any ideas?

Thanks. SB

IMHO there's no sensible reason to try to preserve the allee design. It's an uphill battle that you are certain to lose down the road as more trees suffer calamities. If you really want a formal allee, consider using stationary, inanimate objects (lightposts, statues) instead of living, growing, phenotypically diverse, dying plants.

Can you save and enhance some of the existing plantings into informal groupings? Maybe even move a couple of the elms out of their regimented pattern?

Guy S.

Beautiful piece of ground. I've learned first-hand that Guy's advice is sage and I'm not going to disagree with it. Still, for a property like Stressbaby's, an allee is a most impressive site. Are there no trees left on earth that can be recommended for an allee? I'm digressing, but there's a famous live oak allee somewhere (perhaps many places) in Louisiana that I hope to see sometime in my life. Anyone know what I'm talking about?

Bob

I love this picture! The entrance is very formal and I can see where SB would want to carry that feel into the property with a continuation of some kind of formality, hence an "allee". Deciduous Trees, at that spacing, however, give a side to side openess of width. I'm sure you could become a little less formal with a series of linear groupings the lenght of the drive with open spaces between each grouping. How much formality you want to sacrifice could be inherrent in what you put into each group and how often you repeated each group. By spacing each group you still would retain the formal "lined up" approach.
What I really enjoyed about the picture is the statement of whimsy the weathered barn in the distance with the open hay mow door gives as we discuss "formality". I'm sure this feeling does not apply to when you enter the property. Ken

Ah, the joys of the crashing antiquated computer; round two attempt coming.

I'd like to be the first to thank Maackia for formally christening Guy with a new name: Salvia. Apt.

Despite being long of tooth and all, Salvia speaketh of two things which need not be attached at the hip: formal and allée. While this is how most times the term is applied, and that is the expression most often imagined when hearing the structure spoken of, an allée can be pretty much anything lined up (usually on either side of, or to create, a way of circulation, like a path/walk/street/alley!). Allées usually are trees, usually monocultural, equidistantly spaced within each row, and directly across from one another on the way formed. But they don't have to be.

I have, for the past twelve years, been trying to deconstruct the monocultural plantings of the Olmsted parkway system in Louisville (15 miles of linear parks, designed in 1893 and implemented over the next 30+ years, which contain over 6600 individual planting locations, and originally consisted of primarily Quercus palustris and Platanus occidentalis. There were a few other species in a few blocks, but these species made up greater than 80% of the total.

These trees were arranged in double or triple allées, along the central carriageway (now four-lane street). You can imagine the magnificent cathedral-like quality of towering oaks lining the street you live on or drive through, or walk to the park along (get it, parkway?).

Today, arborists, horticulturists, and yes, even some landscape architects can appreciate the problems inherent in monoculture (so succinctly cited by Salvia). The desire to line things up formally is like a Lorelei, and we are drawn upon the rocks.

The key is to not be so anal or constricted as to believe that the allée must be of one species and always the same size. I will refer back to my example of the parkways. Through analysis of the design intent of good old Fred (Frederick Law Olmsted, Sr.), Metro Parks deemed that the overarching value is the linear arrangement of the plants, NOT the precise species involved. Thus, we are keeping two/three rows of trees that are spaced adequately for crown development and placed so that today's needs are met (sightlines for vehicles; underground utilities; distance from curb/walks/driveways). What is different is that we are varying the species (though respecting the character/form/texture of each), which will still provide the shady tree-lined way to the park intended, but will diversify the urban canopy and allow better matching of species to site condition (soils, moisture, etc.).

The ultimate result will still be a line of tree trunks and canopy overhead. Some will quibble that "they don't look alike" as young trees. I say: get with Fred's head! He "made no small plans" (wait, that was Daniel Burnham). He applied "a little judicious use of the axe" (wait, that was clearing woodlands for views). Here it is...

Sorry, I don't know how to do the quotes in a box thing.

VV, I thought it was:
"The true meaning of life is to plant trees, under whose shade you do not expect to sit. "
-- Nelson Henderson

Anyway, you said, "Varying the species (though respecting the character/form/texture of each)" A couple of questions as I think about this. First, how much do you vary the species within each row? Second, how do you handle the inevitable gap when a tree dies? Do you replace it with a different species, or do leave leave a gap to create the groupings that Ken mentioned? If you have any pictures, I'd love to see them. SB

Oh, how I love the picture of your allee'. Too bad you cannot grow live oaks in your area.

Liveoaklady, a friend of mine brought live oaks some from his prior home in North Carolina. He tried to ovewinter them here. I don't know if they made it through...I doubt it.

Ken, one of my patients in her late 80's, formerly the Latin teacher at our local high school, once told me that she grew up on that property and played in that hay loft as a child...I don't know if it's true or not, but the thought gives me a smile every morning when I drive to work.

SB

I believe you're in Z5b. I've never heard the term "allee" but know what it is. There's 2 plants that I can see in your allee.

- Juniperus scopulorum 'Tolleson's Green Weeping' http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/62573/index.html - This would give you a feel of a live oak with spanish moss in your zone and I just love this plant. It's drought tolerant, easy grower, stays moderate size and moves with the wind.

- Robinia pseudoacacia 'Frisia' http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/53848/index.html - Keeps its yellow colour into the summer and fall, winter branches are attractive and drought tolerant. Tough as nails.

I have a list of other suggestions but I think these 2 stand out, IMHO and can be planted alternatively along each side.

SB, Now you also have given mood to my whimsy. Many a hay mow this retired rancher has worked and "played" in.
With Growin's suggestions, which I would not have guessed at in a million years, you can see how individual you can really make this entrance to be, unique in its formality. I get the feeling that your property starts out narrow, with a sort of "key hole" entrance, at least defined by the fencing on three sides. A single line of groupings or mixed plantings, flanking the strait drive would, I think, augment this feeling. If you wanted to space the groupings, you could use these spaces as frames for groupings or beds close up to the fence to break this formality along the drive. Here, along the perimeter of the property in these "exibitions" seen through the formal groupings flanking the drive, you could use the "Natives" that I know Guy loves so much. Use what you have as structure, not replacing the entirety, but certainly use your experience that not the loss of one or two individuals can "ruin" the look you wish to achieve. This alone will lead you away from the formality of monoculture.
This is a really facinating situation, in my assumed opinion. We would like to see the view in the opposite direction, the house and close by landscaping in order to suggest how best to achieve that blend of individuality and belonging. Ken

Growin, very interesting recommendations. I was thinking of trees similar in habit or texture, but you've encouraged me to think outside of my little box. I'll research and digest these thoughts.

Ken, I like your approach approach. There is perhaps 150-200 feet from each side of the drive to the fence/property line. The groupings framed by spaces in the elms would have to be very big or closer to the drive in order to fill the "frame" made by the remaining elm trees. It could be done, though.

I'll post some pics from the bottom of the driveway and the yard tonight. There are pics of the gardens here in my DG diary: http://davesgarden.com/journal/d/m/stressbaby/

Thanks again, everyone. Plenty to think about, here. SB

I know my suggestions are "out there" but they are good reliable plants, atleast here, and are tough Z5b hardy. The combination keeps the formality of the straight lines, ties-in matching pairs, gives a little seasonal interest without debris and the Juniper moves with a south-eastern-like estate look. I have other suggestions if you want. For some reason I have "The Sound of Music" stuck as a visual with kids in curtain-clothes dangling from the branches. I prefer the exhibition planting beds but that would take a large budget and work.

Growin, I'm glad you mentioned that juniper. I've been coming up empty looking for Juniperus rigida 'Pendula' and I might need to use that Tolleson's instead. Now, anybody know a good source for it?

Guy S.

Rice Creek Gardens in the Twin Cities carries the Temple Juniper. They've got a mature specimen at the entrance to their woodland garden that is spectacular. They used to ship, but not sure about this anymore. You might get a good deal as they are moving the entire operation to SE Minnesota at the end of summer.

http://www.ricecreekgardens.com/conifers/index.html

Funny, their list does include J. rigida 'Pendula' (which you recently discovered they no longer have) but not J. scopulorum 'Tolleson's Green Weeping'. Do they have a few left but not enough to list? Anything small enough that I could mail-order?

Guy S.

Monrovia: http://www.monrovia.com/PlantInf.nsf/67f84a5ebda3df3a88256f9d006b9c7c/cef4c0172f9a8ba58825684d0071af19!OpenDocument&Highlight=0,juniperus

Some of my other suggestions include:

Catalpa 'Aurea' & 'Purpurea'
Gleditisia 'Rubylace'
Acer negundo 'Flamingo'
Aralia elata & variegata/aureomarginata
Kentucky Coffee
Cercidiphyllum
Cornus kousa
Taxodium
Metasequoia
Stewartia
Phellodendron
Halesia
Cedrus

I don't have the experience in your area and I'm sure others here will give you better advice if these will suit and do well. SB, make it your own. You're a plantsperson with lots of support and suggestions here. Make your neighbours go "Oooooh!"

Guy, Rich's Foxwillow Pines has it listed in their 2006 price list for 3 gal, 6 gal , and 5 footers. I actually was just there this weekend and the only plant my daughter pointed at was one on my list, the Chamaecyparis (Zanthocyparis) Nootkatensis 'Green Arrow'. Guess what I bought. Now I just have to get her to recognize a Fagus Sylvatica "Purple Fountain'. I think they might ship a smaller one if you ask nicely.

What about an alee of a Fagus Sylvatica cultivar?

Bill

Thanks Growin -- I'll see if a local nursery can order one for me. I'll also check with Rich, thanks Bill!

SB, I agree with Growin -- make it your own. Anyone can plant a droll monotypic row of something and wait for some of them to die, ruining the formal effect. Such landscapes are better left to urban areas that must renew the plantings every decade or two anyway, or to herbaceous and shrubby plantings that can be repaired comparatively easily when something dies.

Here in the Midwest, we can't count upon anything living forever. It takes a real plantsman to plan a landscape that is unique, site-adapted, and seasonally diverse, while still maintaining a sense of enclosure and/or canopy and the ability to survive, design intent intact, when a few holes appear due to drought, tornadoes, bugs, etc. Consider non-formal options that reinforce your design without depending upon soldier-straight lines and uniform spacings.

Guy S.

Nice list growin although I'm not sold on the Aralia elata or A. variegata. The Robinia pseudoacacia gets a little out of control in my neck of the woods but it sure is a beauty. Love that Juniperus scopulorum 'Tolleson's Green Weeping' and J. rigida 'Pendula'. What about a few tried and true Magnolia interspersed in their allee? This one is 'Ann'. Is it my imagination or do photos take for ever to load lately?

The site has been non-responsive a few times today too. I think they're having gremlin problems.

If you approach them, here's another GREAT idea: ask them to add a spell-checker option so we with fumble fingers and senile brains can have some faint hope of being intelligible!!!

Guy S.

Guy, they (meaning DG) suggest you use the firefox browser. If you switch and download firefox, you can add the google toolbar that has spellcheck in it.

http://www.google.com/tools/firefox/toolbar/index.html

Yeah, but I'm a recalcitrant old f_rt who resists changes at every step! I guess I'll get there someday -- nice to know the option is available anyway, thanks. Maybe sometime when you're down here you can drag me to the keyboard and walk me through it . . .

Guy S.

It'd be easier for you to just point me to your computer and let me do it. I don't like recalcitrant old f_rts standing over my shoulder. Bookmark the link above please, it'll make my job easier :o)

If I didn't have to work all day, I could keep up with this thread!

Our property is a long rectangle oriented E-W. Here is the view up the drive from the east.

View up into the yard from the southwest. Maples and ash trees on this side.

I believe the quote is "A SOCIETY BECOMES GREAT WHEN OLD MEN PLANT TREES IN WHOSE SHADE THEY WILL NEVER SIT."

The view into the yard from the northwest. Shagbark hickories, red maples, more ash. The drive is visible in the mid-right portion of the photograph.

The bookmarks automatically transfer over old flart.

Guy, don't be getting sacreligious with my quotes. That is the quote I close all of my lectures with when I speak about trees. I shall probably slip up the next time and say "spit."

Hee-hee-hee!

I think Guy wants you to slip up and say "old women", since he's tired of doing all the digging. And there's certainly no gender barriers to expectoration.

Remember the great character actor in "Butch and Sundance" when the finally make it to South America and this guy gives them the payroll job? Patooie! Bingo. Somehow I have a picture of all you guys and ladies standing around your trees outside recreating this scene. Remember to wipe you mouth.

Arrrrgghhh!

Kevin is right, the bookmarks all transfer over. Now if you meant flirt, and not fart, why would you not just type in flirt???? And what's to relearn? It's just another browser with a toolbar that let's you check your spelling. I thought I had a thimble full of computer knowledge......:o)

Terry

Terry turns tough...:>}