Conifers: What are you growing? Part II

My collection of conifers is pretty plain, it is..drumroll..

7 Bald Cypresses: that I grew from seed, no treatment of any kind, Fall planting, I threw a small handful of seeds and pulp into a big empty metal popcorn can full of soil, then put a sprinkling of dirt over the top of them. They came up like gangbusters, I was surprised. I had about 75 before the Winter before this one, many didn't make it thru the Winter in pots. Many also I had to dispose of, I believe it came down to picking and choosing back then. And then the ones I picked for their fast growth rate didn't make it thru the Winter!

27 Norway Spruces: MO. dept. of conservation seedlings.
5 Colorado Blue Spruces: Wal-mart clearance seedlings.
13 Eastern White Pines: MO. dept. of conservation seedlings.
51 Austrian Pines: MO. dept. of conservation seedlings and one Wal-mart clearance seedling.
7 Dwarf Alberta Spruces: former Wal-mart "living Christmas trees".
1 Ponderosa Pine: seed packet came with a t-shirt that I purchased from the Arbor Day Lodge gift shop (Neb.), still slowly growing outside, its probably even from a northern/western/high elevation seed source!
5 Eastern Red Cedars: Mostly that I dug up from birds poo-ing.
5 Shortleaf Pines: MO. dept. of conservation seedlings. I had more but I gave some away, and some didn't make it thru last Winter here in pots.

And last but not least: 1 Dwarf Eastern White Pine 'Nana', probably my best evergreen: I paid $35 for it from a nursery over 2 years ago, it was on its side, in an under-sized pot, brown and almost dead, but they wouldn't take less.

Will
p.s. Here is that metal popcorn can of those Taxodium seeds shortly after they started sprouting, and thats probably the first half or so that sprouted!

This message was edited Mar 18, 2006 9:48 AM

I'm so jealous. I don't have anything yet. I have some seed but it's being cold stratified right now. I can't wait to sow it.

Lauren and everyone,
When I "cold stratify" seed, I sow the seed and then put the container in the fridge so that the seed is cold and moist. I have read numerous other posts that sound like most everyone just puts their seed into the fridge, dry, for the cold treatment and then sows the seed? Does that work?

I always thought that the seed needed to be kept moist during cold stratification for germination to take place. If you are mixing the seed with something to keep it moist while in the fridge, doesn't that make sowing the seed a pain in the assets?

I'm just curious...
Thanks,
Mike
(I have one Cedrus libani var. stenocoma seedling that's up and many of the other seeds are in the process of germinating... I have not wanted to post anything about this for fear of "bad luck" and losing the seedlings/seeds. I'll post a picture... I can't stand it any longer.)

Hi Mike, I don't know if it works or not that way. There's two ways I do it. I soak them (imbibition) a little bit and then mix them with damp vermiculite or place them on a damp paper towel that is rolled up and place that in a ziplock baggie that I toss in the crisper drawer. I check on the seed from time to time and remove any that molds. The other way is that I soak them for a bit and then sow them right on top of the medium right in the container I intend to germinate them in and stack the food storage containers up in the frig out in the garage. Come to think of it, most seed I flat out winter sow so that Mother Nature takes care of the vernalization for me.

We are very bad here about tossing around the word cold stratification when we should be saying cold wet/damp stratification. I was always under the impression that moisture as well as exygen was requisite in breaking down the inhibitors of the woody seed.

Jealous of my popcorn can Taxodiums?
Yes, I agree the words "cold-stratification" I think can throw people off.
Its just a fancy way of saying the seeds need a cold period, or in my case, the Winter.
If you'd like to see how my Taxodium seeds got cold stratified, just see the pic below.
In my case, I did it mother nature's way, outside, thru the Fall and Winter, they were Fall planted, no care.

That is about a foot of snow on top of the blue metal popcorn can that contained the Bald Cypress seeds, and the snow was still falling, as you can see in the photo. Not only were they receiving cold treatment, but about 200 other potted seeds and plants in the photo did also, look closely, see all those humps and bumps in the snow?

Will

This message was edited Mar 18, 2006 2:38 PM

Sigh, now I'm even more jealous. Lovely bumps Will, absolutely lovely. I have to set out all of my winter sowing containers in the screened in porch because the critters were getting to them outside and having a field day.

Boy, I would love to contribute to this thread; however, all my "store bought" stuff is under white cover so you'll have to wait till your shrubs and trees are stiffening new growth until I can see what is out there. Course I've got your balsam fir, your white spruce, a few red pines, hemlocks, and white cedars ( old enough to escape the rodents ) but they are covered with the same white blanket. Send me some soft south breezes, pleezes. Ken

Cold stratification does mean cold and moist. The word stratification came from when they originally layered the seed in moist sand.

IMLO(logical), saying cold moist statification erroneously implies that "regular" stratification is dry. And that is what might be continuing the misunderstanding of the concept.

Mike,

Do you have your Cedrus stenocoma's on bottom heat? Mine have done nothing but I don't have them on heat, just sitting above my grafts in the greenhouse.

Just curious,

Dax

Hi Dax,
No, I don't have the seeds on bottom heat. Actually, I have read that C. l. var. stenocoma is a frost germinator and that the seeds need cold temps to germinate. Did you put the seeds in the fridge for cold stratification after sowing? Also, did you soak the seeds in water prior to sowing? I think these two steps are critical to getting C. l. var stenocoma seed to germinate.

I took one of the pots of seeds out of the fridge and this is the pot that has the seedling. The other seeds in this same pot are germinating much slower than the other two pots of seeds that are still in the fridge.

I also soaked the seed in water for approx. 3 days (two days at room temp and one day in the fridge) before I sowed the seed. I sowed all of the seed that sank to the bottom of the cup. I cut one of the seeds in half a while ago and there was a green shoot in the center of the seed, so I know the seed was "good".

The seeds in the other two pots, that are still in the fridge, have more seeds showing the radical (I think this is the term? It's the first root) coming out of the seed than the pot that is at room temperature.
Mike

ThriceArborealAmour:

Only if your seeds are extremists!

Otherwise, they are probably showing their radicle views.

http://davesgarden.com/terms/go/1803/

Bust out the Garden Terms!

Hi Mike (treelover3) did you get your Cedrus libani var. stenocoma seeds in a $3.00 trial packet from Schumacher seeds? I just got my Schumacher seed catalog in the mail and it is for sale in there. I might get me some too.

I think I'm gonna get a bunch of other seeds too. This ought to be fun!

Will

www.treeshrubseeds.com
^
Schumacher seeds

Right on Mike, were those the seeds you were "experimenting" with if I recall. You were going to leave one batch in the fridge, one somewhere else and the other somewhere else? (You don't need to give me a long explanation)......Just curious?

Hi Will, what's up man?

I got my seeds from Schumaker's and did the cold strat they mention to do and whatever else they mention to do.

Good information though Mike.

Thanks,

Dax

Hi Dax, oh just getting ready for my work-week to start back up!
I just topped off my tranny fluid and the coolant in my radiator.

I just got this catalog and was also wondering about the stratification needs. The booklet says on the inside front cover (terms), that "seed is not stratified".

And then 2 sentences later it says "All bulk lots are kept in refridgerated storage."

My guess would be that it needs 3 months cold, which would mean ordering now isn't important to have anything sprout this year (well, maybe July or Aug., I suppose).

Will

I'm sure mine will pop sometime...

Schumaker's says 21 days 'cold moist strat' and then sow.

That's what I did!

Here's some photos from some of my seedlings from tonight...

Dax

Acer palmatum seedlings from 'Seiryu':

My (7) of the original (8) Metasequoia glyptostroboides from sown (1) packet; Source: Schumaker's - and next photo of recent sprouts/germinated seedlings of Metasequoia (4 packets from Schumaker's and I counted ~40 from these four packs). First the (7) that have been transplanted:

(4 packs from Schumakers - ~40 new sprouts in the past few days)

And a couple two photos of the first set of leaves from my Schumaker 'plain old "green" small seed imported Acer palmatum)

These two have purple ridges and exceptionall different leaf shape than the others in the flat.

#2 from "green Acer palmatum" (Photo)

Pretty fun stuff!

Hey Dax,

Getting an early start on Spring-time I see!

Someday I'd like to get a big greenhouse, like the Grand Hideaway.
Not the lean-to model, the big momma, the real deal, 23' x 20' of indoor gardening delight.. I got a big photo of it as my wallpaper.

Glad to see their seeds are working out for you.
Looks good,

Will

Hey Will, who is the manufacturer of the 23x20 greenhouse you want?

Hey conifers, nice babies. Very nice babies.

Hi Equil,

I haven't looked up the manufacturer, I have though become acquainted with this one distributor. I called them one day about a month ago, it costs $15,000 (not the lean-to model), without the rounded edges. Glass, not the other one, I think plexi-glass or something. I'd think that would be with shipping.
I have this link to them if you'd like to see it -
http://www.greenhousesetc.com/grandhideaway.shtml

I'll email you the photo of it that I have.
This is a finished and landscaped model of a Grand Hideaway that belongs to a member here, I haven't asked him/her yet if I can share the photo, or even if I can have it. It is nicely landscaped and is perfect.

Will



This message was edited Mar 19, 2006 10:54 PM

Cool Will...

Not me, ain't got the loot! Hee hee. . .

I can do what I need to do using any version of the "Harbor Freight" greenhouses. www.harborfreight.com

They sell a 6x8 for $399 and a new model as of the last month, a 10 x 16 for $699. Plus, if (anyone) signs up for their free catalog/email updates they offer a 20% coupon off any order. It's really a good greenhouse.

Contract growing... If I had the land, I think that's what I'd do. A friend of mine recently turned down an offer to grow 50,000 Ginkgo biloba and while I didn't ask him what he was to be paid, the offer was there. I'd of course graft as well...but I think I'd really enjoy the seedling business even if I did it on my own (and sold through Ebay) etc. However, right now I'll just have to enjoy what I do have.

Take care,

Dax

VV,
Thanks for the correction! (same sounding word, just a different meaning. This one seedling does seem pretty radical though. I am going to watch this seedling very closely).

Will,
Yes, but I purchased an ounce of seed from Schumacher's, rather than just the trial packet. Since the reports said that there was low seed viability I figured that the more seed I had the better my chances of getting some seedlings.

Dax,
I took one pot out of the fridge and the other two are remaining in the fridge until most of the seeds have started to germinate. I will probably take all of the seeds out of the fridge by the middle of April.

Nice pics of your seedlings, BTW.
Thanks,
Mike

Thanks Mike, I'll let you know how mine do.

Later,

Dax

That Harborfreight greenhouse 10 x 16 sounds good. I haven't seen it offered locally, only the 6 x 8 one for $399, $299 on sale. I was going to purchase it at one time, I had it circled and everything. But, then I thought I better not and was trying to eliminate some of the impulse purchases. I never knew about the 10 x 16 one though, that one sounds interesting.
The good thing about HarborFreight is with any old flyer, the sale price can still be given even if its not currently on sale, on anything. They are reluctant to tell anybody that but I've asked twice, its so.
I might be moving into another abode, it would be good to have a smaller, portable greenhouse.

I'm going to look at the Schumacher seed catalog, I might order some.

Mike, how long did yours from Schumacher need to be stratified?

Dax, do you heat your greenhouse?

Will

Hi Will,

It's heated.

Re: your question to Mike I already answered to you above but would be happy to write it again...copy/paste

"Schumaker's says 21 days 'cold moist strat' and then sow."

Hi Dax,

Ok thanks, I forgot it was up there.

Will