Underplanting

What do you use on water iris, i usually try a bow saw first and an axe second, tied a chain saw once, now that was a lovely mess. I had manured an iris pseudocora[sp], I wouldn't recommed it in anything less than an


Boy you must feed 'em steroids down there....or they are MUCH differnt from what we have up here...i just use a long bladed snips or tin snips works well on mine ...we must NOT be talkin' about the same species ..or was the chain saw comment just spoofing us ;>) David

Thanks for the help with the Japanese Maple. Then I'll have to get some strong men to help me with it, needless to say. I may wait 3-4 years though because then the daylilies will need to be divided. I can do it all at the same time. They are worth more than the Japanese Maple actually. I do keep looking at the spot where the non-blooming magnolia is and thinking that the tree might do very well there. That poor magnolia. It must have been mislabeled. It was supposed to be a Butterfly and get to 25 feet and it doesn't seem to make it past 5 and it's been installed a good 10 years.

Are we talking about Louisiana iris? I don't have any other kind of water iris. It must be a Southern thing?

Well, blessings to your mom and to you for caring for her. That's a rare thing and beautiful. How do the cotton chemicals affect you?

I realize that we have hijacked Gwendalou's thread. Is it OK with you Gwendalou? Perhaps we should move this conversation to a new thread?

2 different species of water Iris, I'll go look up the names when I a litle more awake, they might have been used in breeding the louisiana water iris but they are very different. It is definitly Iris pseudocora, but the purple is not definitly anything, I virginica comes closest but the pic is not correct, did a 2 book search, boy i am sleepy, just did a google, it is Iris virginica and looks like the virginica variant of it. This one stops, usually at 4 to 5 feet and about 2 to 3 feet around then throws clumps off in irregular bunmches, pretty easily removed with a pair of sharp shovels. The pseudocora on the other hand, has hit over 8" at my Mother's camp, where they are wild. We took a section of this one, a bit larger than usual and put it into the main pool in the garden at home, needed to be repotted every year and cut in half, not to much trouble with a bow saw, until one year she was going to be on tour, Nashville rose society's fund raiser, about the time they would bloom, so we left it alone, put the whole thing in a washtub and manured and fertilized it. That fall the roots were over 6 feet across and that's when I tried the chain saw, finally did axe and bow saw together and chopped it into about 1 ' sections. In the ground quite ell behaved though no where near as handsome, a good compromise is to dig a big and deep hole, say 4 across and at least 2 deep, lined in plastic with a few holes in the bottom, so it drains eventualy, plant it on a hump in the middle of this and keep medium moist, if ya like huge and bold thgis one is for you. I use it occasionaly, esp if money is an issue as it gives a show the first year from a small division, the yellow is a very bright yellow so I don't care for it myself, strong yellows make my eyes hurt, but many people love it, a very good plant to hide a hydrant as the leaves are handsome mosty of the year as long as it gets water. The purple is smaller weaker and a lovely thing in bloom but not as attractive out of bloom, excellent for behind cinnamon fern. Tin snips and regular snips are way to small an opening for trimming them, loppers will work for most roots esp the 1st years ones which are firm but tender, the woody ones can be tough and so tangles it is difficult to use loppers on.
Must be some fancy daylilies, Coral bark about 12 feet tall are anywhere from $300 to 500 retail here. To bad ya can't ship it here, you could get a couple of new dayliles for that, but then again some of the dayliles I've seen are worth that much, enjoy, there is a collector here who buys the not quite new ones usually after they drop below about $150 and grows them for a few years and then sells them for not much considering, some as low as 30 or less, he has stuff that makes my jaws drop, the incredible substance and shapes.
It depends on the chemicals, the Spring weedkillers usually cause asthma like symptoms and if i continue to work in it depression and weakened immune system, but are fairly easily avoided, 4 or 5 miles from the fields and i have little trouble, However the defoliante that they use in the late summer, early fall is so noxious that i am usually limited to 2 hours every other day for about a 6 week period, asthma like symptoms, depression to the point of a day of bed rest after i work in the valley,,no immune system at all, general irritability, i turn into a mean SOB and I really don't like that. Huntsville is the bottom end of the Tennessee Valley and the stuff hits the mountians, actually foothills of the Appalacians and sits there till it rains, last year it took 3 months for the stuff to clear.actully I am not the worst case i know of, it can trigger epilectic fits and severe depression and that's just in people i know. Cotton is this areas 3 rd largest industry so even agitating for chemical changes haven't worked, laws around here a funny and attacking cotton is about like attacking God, apple pie and the flag, you can make a lot of noise but it doesn't get ya anywhere, most people with problems move away, however this is the best money town around for hundreds of miles and i am a very specialized talent. Nashville should be able to support me but they actually raise some cotton just south of there and i don't want to live in that big a city. Oh well that enough of that.
So Butterfly doesn't bloom for you either, gave one to Cissy 5 years ago, it's all of 3 feet high, a Forest farms tube, and nada on blooms but it is still a little young. Most of the magnilias at grandpappy's didn't bloom till they were at least 6 feet, but I'm not sure of Butterflie's parentage, some of the orientals need to be pretty big before they bloom
I hope Gwendalou gives permission but if she would rather not lets take this one elsewhere. But what shall we call it? :D
you all take care.

No, feel free to leave this thread in place as is and keep it going. Don't mind being hijacked at all!

Gwendalou

Perhaps Gwendalou would rather start a new thread when she's come up with some ideas or she can still check in here? This thread has been pretty well hijacked and won't be much good to her now anyway. Sorry. Just let us know. We'll come where you want us to.

My Butterfly is about 20 and still hasn't bloomed Another tree that was supposed to be kept small but got to about 12 feet before I had to really reign it in. Luckily it cooperated. But it's another far too close to the house. Still doesn't bloom but I'll check it very carefully this year. I haven't seen bloom on my Koto No Ito either or my Sango Kaku. They have only been in the ground about four years now though.

Wow! Those are some iris. I put a slew of Louisianas in this year for the first time and I think that they will be plenty to deal with. I did dig down about 4 inches - we have clay. And then used acid based plant mix and mulched. They seem to be nice and damp. They've only been in since the beginning of the summer.

I was in the USSR in Uzbeckistan once when they were defoliating the cotton riding through the fields in an open bus. I was terrified that I had ruined my lungs forever. I can really understand you needing to get out of there. It's tragic that there is no way to address the situation. People need to breathe as well as eat.

What is your specialty?

The maple really isn't in good shape. The fertilizers have made the growth just long and soft and whippy. I assume that moving it, it could be saved. I'll think about where to put it. I do love being able to see it out of my living room windows but perhaps it's time for a dwarf tree to live there.

I will look into getting it moved. What do you think is the best time? Any ideas for a replacement? I do think that there is a smaller coral bark on the market. Or perhaps a really dwarf tree that wouldn't get more than about 8 feet tall. Don't want a weeper. I have a beni fushigi on the other side of the house that might be moved over there. It's a beautiful tree. Have a tree moving party??? It's a good idea. The Beni is beautiful in the spring although it may be more of a spreading tree than makes sense. I've seen reports of 6 feet and reports of 8 feet by 8 feet.

Well, this proves that I'm moving the tree. I don't have a single photo of it.

Thanks Gwendalou,

Please let us know what happens to your underplantings!

If you want to start a new thread, dmail me and I'll be there in a heartbeat.

Thanks gwendalou!


Not sure about moving time, I've done from August to Feb. If it goes dormant there I'd suggest about a month before it usually leafs out or at least 2 weeks after leaf drop, that is the best time around here. Long whips are pretty typical here, they harden up over a 2 to 3 year span, it might not be as bad a monster as ya think. I'll go check on the biggest ones i know next week, working near there on Wed and see what they have done over the last year. If the whips are fishtailing, ya might thin em to 2 or at most 3 side branches at the tips, i usually let the one that is arching up stay and then prune for symmetry with the other branches.
As far as dwarf trees go I am unfamiliar with your zone so it will have to be trees that do well here. What do you wish to accomplish with it, screening, shade for underplanting, vista point, seasonal color,ect

Sounds good on the iris, the louisiana do get out of hand but nothing like the 2 natives i deal with.

Specialty, gardener, main specialty pruner and designer, Formal to wild, with energy work, both people and land healing, the mess left here is amazing,can teach Botany though I will need updates on that as my schooling was more than 20 years ago and the field has changed dramaticly in that time.

Back to the underplantings ...I like the kerria japonica (Japanese shub rose) ...It is a bit larger and should be towards the edges of your tree drip line to get some sun to bloom .I prefer the harder to find single variety rather than the rah rah pom pom double available many places. I is the perfect complement to red varieties ...NOT GREEN ...here's a photo of one under a bloodgood of mine BTW the blooms are yellow and contrary to what you read do well in FULL sun or shade but bloom more in sun...David

the photo I sent you had no blooms ...so here's what they look loke ...remember the more shade the less blooms and plant kerria only under larger red JM's or as companion plants near by...David

Thanks for the info about transplanting. You've solved another problem for me actually. I'm realizing that the magnolia will create far too much dense shade for the spot it's in. The A. palmatum is perfect. They do get to about 25-30 feet here. I went out this morning and saw one.

I'll take a photo of the spot that I think that I need another tree in. I do think that my Beni Fushigi will be pretty good there and it's only been in the ground one year. I have some A. Palmatum specialists here who I can ask to move them for me. The Beni is large and worth about $500 too so it's worth it to have it done by professionals.

Here's the Beni. It's about 4 feet tall.

You have a lot of talents. I love the land healer part. You do need that particularly in your corner of the world. Life should be interesting.

Now back to underplantings David. Isn't Kerria kind of big? a 3-5 foot shrub under a maple sounds like a lot for it to handle unless it's adjacent. The contrast would be fabulous though. Have you done it?

Yes I said it is a bigger shrub to be planted under and towards the outer edge ,drip line of older red jm's uprights NOT disectums ( I forgot the upright part sorry ) and also adjacent to . You are correct Doss ...it would not be wise to plant under a smaller JM...and it does need light so towards the outside. They can be trimmed and kept smaller...but the best effect is to have them intermingle with the jm's lower branches ...they will tend to shoot out more sideways to reach the sun anyway. As a companion plant one or two beteen two uprights or dissectums makes a beautiful areangement...David

I'll bet it does. Sounds really fabulous. I like the loose way it the Kerria holds it's limbs, arching over.

David, I think I'll try that. We have several taller red maples in other areas that this sounds like it would go well in.

Thanks,
Gwendalou

I bought my kerria's from http://plantandgnome.com/ .... from a guy or gal named Chris the owner ( like "Pat" I don't know ;>) ) He /She has really nice multi stemed ones really reasonable and cheap shipping answers email and is generally a pleasure to deal with!!!and they are single petal types but might be too wxpensive to WA. but for others in mid west or east I highly recommend the gnomester!!! David

David, noticed your comments regarding crab apples so had to post my Scarlet Brandywine. Can't compare to JPs but I'm fond of it. Do you have Fullmoon or Autumn Moon? I'm a couple of hours or so south of you and have trouble with spring frosts, losing the small ones I've tried. Would a bigger specimen help?

That looks like a nice "clean " tree i only dislike crabs cause they get mangy with age scruff if you will an require alot of futzing with ..but I love their flowers and leaves are also nice ...just not their growth habbit.

As far as JM's ...humm not had that trouble but many of mine haven't been in the ground that long...I had VERY few if any early openers in my collection this year ...I try to choose ones that open ltr and are alledgedly hardy to zone 5...I think that goes hand in hand. What ones did you have frost problems with ??? and yes a younger and therefore smaller JM could be more likely to succume from alot of stuff if it's not well established IMHO..you are likely in zone 6a most all JM's grow well in zone 6 so you shouldn't have problems but if you put in early budding varieties you may again what ones kaputted on you ?? David

For a red laceleaf type JM, like my crimson queen, I like light green hosta. I use "lemon" lime under mine! They spread quickly and the colors are very bright.

Laura

That's a great choice. I love gray, yellow and lime green with a red tree.

I do love a red heuchera with them too in the surrounding plantings to pick up the red color. Red Kurume Azaleas also bloom the same time as the spring foliage and brighten everything up.

I lost both a Fullmoon and it's replacement to frost. My Autumn Moon appears to have not made it throught the winter this year. Looked great last spring as you can see in the photo. All were about 12" trees when originally planted.
Laurel

Here's a Crimson Queen - last year's photo - so it's slightly bigger this year. I'm underplanting it with a yellowish sedum (Angelina) on this side since that area will get morning sun.

laurel I have not grown either full or autumn moon ...but as i posted in other threads i feel athe bigger the tree with it's corresponding root system the better chance of survival in our area ...but it's just a theory and some cultivars just won't grow here but both of those SHOULD from what I have read...If you like that cultivar i would get a much larger specimin IE : not another twig ;>)....and of course put it in a protected spot but at least morning sun ( morn sun aft shade best) not on the open prairie or next to a corn field ...also if you live in the country be careful of farmers spraying hebacide ...they love to do it or hire it done only when the wind is blowing over 20mph and in your direction ;>0 David

Here are some pics of my crimson queen with the underplanting of lemon-lime hostas...and a few tulips for good measure.

First standing back from the tree

Closeup 1

Number 2

Here's my crimson Queen right now. The yellow foliage just coming up in the front is a hosta, Gray is Artemesia Powis Castle, there are daylilies behind it in a tiered bed and miniature pomegranites in front. You can barely see them right now. I have to keep them pretty cut back.