Underplanting

What are some pretty things to plant under maples?

Thanks,
Gwendalou

lots of things are good, i have had few troubles with anything i've tried, best effects so far are in med shade, bloodroot, hosats, clinbing fern, vinca minor. In the sunnier parts,Bletilia (sp) hardy orchid, chelone, daffs, hycinthodies, Ipheon, southern maiden hair fern, northern would probably work, it is real obliging, but i haven't tried it there yet, calla, heucherea, peacock moss, aurum, meadow rue, hellbore, i prefer bearclaw as the color contrast is so nice. Good luck

Do I have to worry about the maple tree roots when digging to plant new stuff?

Gwendalou

Of course, any root bigger than your middle finger should be avoided, most of these plants are very shallow rooted so they can be placed in a scrape and then mulch placed over and around. On an established and over 5 foot tree you only need to avoid the 1" roots

Gwendalou, It would be great if you could put your zone in. That way we could be more helpful. You do it by going to my info and entering it on the column on the left hand side.

That is a great list bermudakiller (love the name. I'm after it all the time from my neighbor's lawns). Azalea and most other kinds of ferns are happy there and also astilbe. I have heuchera under an A. Palmatum and it's happy. Clumping carex are also pretty. If you are in a temperate zone, mother fern is beautiful and lemon button fern makes a great ground cover. Ligularia and farfugium are fabulous foliage plants if you haven't discovered them. They are actually the same I believe and Crispata (or cristata) and the spotted cultivar both stay a very nice size. Daylilies will also work. Pansies are happy if you want to get colorful. I have one tree planted in succulents. I just root feed the tree instead of watering it from the top.

Okay, I put in 7b. I'm not really sure of my zone. I think it's 8 but plants that grow in 8 won't survive here. But our temps are more in the 8 range than the 7 range, so go figure!

Gwendalou

It's those few zone 7 nights that will get you! I can't grow zone 10 plants here because they will definitely croak and I'm not one to lift plants. Brunnera is another very pretty underplanting too. I don't know how callas grow in your zone but they tend to get invasive here unless they are the pretty smaller cultivars.

Here's a planting with mother fern, heuchera, hellebore, ferns, there is an azalea, mondo grass and hosta and some yesterday, today and tomorrow. The astilbe is in the raised planter and this was before I put in the spotted ligularia. These are all shade plants because the tree is very wide and dense.

Just have a ball. Let your imagination run wild and enjoy.

Very pretty. I just love yesterday, today, and tomorrow! I'll have to see if that grows here.

Whereabouts in Stanford do you live? We moved here from the Menlo Park/Atherton area 4 years ago. We lived on Camino al Lago. I sure love it there. I miss the longer gardening season altho I can grow lots more stuff here that I love and doesn't do well there - lilacs and peonies. But Stanford is so pretty. Just love all the flowers at the mall there.

Gwendalou

I'll send dmail

Here's another underplanting that I just did for a butterfly. Since the Butterfly is in full shade it's almost white most of the year except in the spring. So I tried to echo the white in the plantings with the white dichondra and the variegated pteris. Lemon button fern and a red carex along with some hellebore are doing well here. I've over planted though and am slowly moving things other places.

The pteris has grown and is now about 2 and a half feet tall and it will get to about 3 here.

Hey Doss,
Thanks, you have some very nice ideas and i'm developing zone envy, lol. Lovely pics. I've got a brother named Daws, pronounced the same I'd guess, unusual.
Gwendalou, with heavy mulching, usually something light like oak leaves or pine straw, 4 to 5 inches and thick, medium to large stones placed around plants, i often gain a zone, but in a bad year even that doesn't work, Good luck Here the real killer is our wet winters that incurage rot, nothing more frustrating that see something start to sprout up in March and then turen brown and rot away just as it should have survived. Check on climate where you suspectible plants came from, if ya really want to fool with a few, I've placed glass bowls over things like santolina or old windows on brick or blocks over larger thing like sage. Looks like the devil but it works.

Say Hi! to Daws. That is an un usual name.

The Carex and the Hellebore are probably zone friendly for you. Most pteris are hardy down to zone 7b. Lemon button fern only to zone 8 but I'm sure that there are other hardy ferns in that size. This place has a great fern search engine and her plants are good too.
http://www.fancyfronds.com/

Scotch or irish moss can replace the dicondra if there is enough sun.

You get the drift. It's shapes and textures and colors you are looking for rather than individual plants. Much better to get something that is happy in your zone and will perform well.

And Rocks are some of my favorite landscape plants.

Doss, that's very pretty also. I'll have to see if those do well here.

Bermudakiller - I think I've got you beat on wet!

Gwendalou

Gwendalou, the chances are high, not sure where langley is but i've got cousins in vancouver and friends or the family in Puget Sound. i believe the term is temperate rain forest :o) ya might see is southern maidenhair fern will live there, i use a goood bit here, expensive but if it is happy almost invasive, something stunning with box, hellbore and hosta, toleratea both sun, with water up to 1/2 day and shade equally well.
Doss, the idea of texture verses plants i agree with compleatly and i rarely waste time on something that isn't happy, though a lot of my clients do. Lol.

I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to imply that you were growing things that weren't happy. I should have said that I am too lazy to go and cover things. LOL

That's clearly the case. I do admit to keeping a floating cover for some succulents that I grow although the rain this year is ravaging them. I should probably be using your brick and cover method.

I've been known to buy more than a few plants that weren't happy myself just for the pure pleasure (I thought) of growing it. Just ask my poor peony that I finally rousted out of it's sad place. Well, you can't ask it anything now - it's beyond discussion.

Zone envy is well and alive in zone 9 although I've kept myself from attempting a lilac seeing the sad state of their lives here.

I grow Southern Maidenhair but never realized that it could take sun. Learn something new every day. Thanks!

Well it does take about 1/2 day here in 7b, not sure about 9, hostas that are listed as sun tolerant usually aren't very here though my brother has no trouble in MA. Doss you have nothing to apoligise for, i didn't take it that way and even if I did it wouldn't offend me at all. I'm pretty laid back unless someone is intentionaly trying to annoy me, and that sure wasn't you, please don't worry about it.
Lilacs are pretty sad here, mildew from hHdes and barely hanging on, ugly as all get out, but every 3 rd or fourth years when they do bloom well, just lovely and the smell, reminds me of my childhood, 6b in Tennessee where they do grow well but aren't all that handsome, real leggy and mildew but survivable mildew, the scent was intoxicating, we had hedges of the commom french and another one of the white, oh well that's past now. Here if I just have to i'll go to the florist and buy a bunch :0) usually resist it but not always.
Jeff

Jeff- well I won't feel so bad about lilacs anymore. Thank you! Everything that can mildews here. Hadn't considered that problem.

I can grow things in full shade here that people would gasp at. Well, maybe not gasp.

Glad that you're laid back. My intentions are always good - I just love folks. Thanks for letting me know that things were OK.

I use the florist quite a lot but never thought of buying lilacs there. duh. I love to see things in the garden where they belong and make an impact so I don't do much flower cutting.

See, you set me free!

Wonderful Doss,
Daws says Hi back.
Things are very OK.
I like to bring stuff in a good bit as florists are rather expensive and I'd rather buy a plant for the money but some desires are worth it and lilacs are one of them :o) Carnations are another, I like the blossoms, I've never understood why so many people thought of them as common, I know they are cheap, but i don't understand common, but I love the scent and that's another that won't grow well here, the little dianthus do nicely but anything bigger than a nickle just hangs on and lingers poor things, some of the pinks have the smell, but so far none that blooms for a long time, oh well, i guess i need a home up north as well as down here, lol. I don't know if it will do well for Gwendalou or not but peacock moss has suddenly become available here, a bit tricky in the valley, a not worth it on the mountian where i live, but lovely underplanting hostas, esp the big blues.
Jeff

Found this article in Plant Delights Nursery that is good for shade plants.
http://www.plantdelights.com/Tony/shade.html
PDN is too expensive for my taste but always an interesting read. If not available locally peacock moss (selaginella uncinata) is available at Forest Farm and Big Dipper Farm mail order. Have you grown it Jeff? I've thought about it many times but never ordered it.

Pinks, huh? Now that is something I hadn't thought of missing. You'll laugh - my local nursery just sent me an email saying that they were recommending lilacs right now! Planned obsolescence is more like it.

I am not a lilac expert but if I'm not mistaken there is a disease that effects some varieties...looks like mildew and eventually either kills 'em or uglifies them also something that gets on the bark and strangles the plant... not all varieties are effected from what I understand ...I'm sure there's someone here with more accurate knowlege on this ... I have some standard I call 'em Illinois lilacs that are humoungous 20 ft tall and wide and you need to cut back the branches with the garbage on the bark and it shoorts out new stuff that blooms nicely ...the next year.
I think lilacs as well as forcythias do better in the north... the most beautiful blooms from both I've EVER seen were in Mass. in the Berkshires ...phenomenal made mine look like crap!!!!!!!!! David

Gwendalou have we lost you?

I agree - the lilacs are out. Bearded iris smell like heaven and they are really happy here. Even the Japanese Maples are flowering and the seedling that I posted looks like lace now. Flowering crabapple trees and tulips, daffodils, azaleas and camellias.... Spring can come here and do just fine without lilacs.

. Flowering crabapple trees ..HUMMMM I am not a big fan I guess the birds like 'em but they are kind of gnarly trees ( I guess there are nice varieties as in everything ... I am a prejudiced guy I feel if your gonna frow a tree with fruit you should be able to eat it... ;>)...another of my least fav. trees is the bradford pear... They are everywhere and so "anal" looking...they also have a genetic defect ( at least I've been told that) If you like to use your chain saw every year BUY one ...branches and half trees seperate in even moderate winds ...They are a dream come true to the tree trimmers...they like crabs are beautiful in the spring but you better like 1/2 trees cause thats what you'll have in no time....I think in our recent tornado and accompaning high winds our city probably lost thousands of 'em ...a dream come true for me ...even tornados have silver linings ;>) D

Nope, I am still here and reading all the responses! Now I need to get out there and get busy on that area! I still can't get up and down on my hands and knees yet, tho.

Gwendalou

David, there are over 100 cultivars of flowering crabapple. Can you believe it? This one is three feet tall and weeping. It's planted with tulips underneath.

Gwendalou, any thoughts on what you might do?

I like the weeping tree...that solves one of my problems with them, their size, but as I said i'm sure there are nice varieties I just am not impressed with most... but a small weeper is a nice touch I AGREE!!!! David

See David, you were right as usual. :-)

Just looked at one of my flowering crabapples and it needs to come down. It's not that it's so big it's just that it's disorganized. I've been unable to prune it into any semblance of order, limbs going everywhere. What a relief!

It is beautiful blooming right now so down it comes when it's through blooming. Aren't I brutal?

This message was edited Mar 31, 2006 4:13 PM

Doss, I'm not sure yet. I think I'm going to go look at ferns at a local nursery to see what does well here. And I also am going to look for an azalea or two in colors I like. I like to get them when they're in bloom so I know I like the colors.

I like the peacock moss a lot so I'll probably put some of that in. And I like the idea of having a few larger rocks or boulders mixed in with the plantings, esp when you then have things like baby tears growing over them partially.

I've got another area where we have hostas and hellebores growing, so I'm not going to add those in this area too.

I think it will look prettier if I don't overplant it, but just put in some spreading ground cover and then some pretty ferns.

I'll post some photos of the area below.

Gwendalou

This is it *before* we started yanking stuff out.

Sounds beautiful. Nice and restrained. I do love rocks. They make such a difference.

Another before.

Here is after. Just taking out the willow made a huge difference and then we cleaned up all the 'junk' in that area too. Of course, now it's *really* barren as all the leaves are off everything!

Gwendalou

Another after.

I can hear the maple breath a sigh of relief. This is a huge improvement with one shrub taken out. Isn't it amazing? What a lovely garden you have and I love the tree.

Oh that is a NICE garden Gwendalou. another suggestion to put under your hat, Japanese painted ferrn, another plant i don't much care for but very useful in places, reminds me of those grave decoration plastic fren that have started to rust, lol. But any way, with blue hosta and limestone they are lovely. here they like a good bit of water and 2 hours to 3 of sun.

Doss,
" Who would cut down a cherry orchard in full bloom" forgotten the source but that's not brutal. that's just common sense. :o)
Crab apples are like roses, where ever you prune the bud direction is where they are going to grow at least for a few inches, lol. Ya probably alredy know this, I tried for years to silk purse a sow's ear crab at a clients, sentimental attachment, deceased hubby planted it, oh well and son brutaly incorrectly pruned it, read topped, Yuck, a sad sight, i was able to restore some of it's beauty but not a lot, came down eventualy. You have probably done every thing that I will suggest but just in case, here goes. basic , remove all crossing branches and water sprouts and of course dead wood, Look for balance and remove or shorten anything that throws it off, step back and inspect from all viewing sides, thin secondary branches by about 1/3, remembering the direction of the bud will play a large part in what way it grows, esp at first, light takes over quickly though. If you have the time and want to use it on this tree, wearing gloves, brush your hands over the places where water sprouts are coming up, firmly enough to remove them, this will keep the branches clean and polish the bark at the same time. probably more trouble than it is worth, but in case ya wanted to save it. After a time and yours is probably already there they are to old to fool with and a replant is needed.
I just love that dwarf weeper!



David, though crab apples aren't the best for eating out of hand, the jelly is something quite nice, esp good with meats as well as breads, try a beaten buiscuit with sugar cured ham and a dab of crabapple jelly, i'd suggest sitting down first though :0)

Thanks Bermuda but I'll pass ..I sometimes come accross as a bit opinionated ...of course one persons silk puse is anothers cows ear ;>) I do though have my LIST and crabs and bradford pears are on them...I think there commonality probably comes into play...I am not a "heard" follower or joiner annd both trees are everywhere ...thats one reason I LIKED the DOSS weeper... really cool . Here's a good site with access to unusual weeping stuff... A nice woman runs it but her email habits are NOT great..but worth a look...also see her small plant website ( great idea we are all running out of space right???) ...I think she distributes rather than grows her own stuff but if I had another acre and wasn't such a JM addict I'd SERIOUSLY consider getting into weepers ...really COOL stuff

http://pendulousplants.com

http://www.smallplants.com

Bermuda - you want to come to my house and play???

No, the tree has to go. It's just too big for it's space and too close to the house. Although I do tend to plant trees too close to the house, a well-meaning friend tried to convince me that I could keep this in it's place. It's not worth keeping. But thanks for trying. I may not even replace it as I have fuchsias growing behind it and daylilies growing in front of it. It's sort of one of those things that you know when you put it in won't work but you do it anyway. I hate it when I do that! Plus that, I've seen some beautiful crabapple trees and this just isn't one of them except when it's blooming. The area will be so relieved when it goes.

Ask me about my Sango Kaku that someone told me would stay under 15 feet. No don't ask.

Love to, but don't tempt me, haven't been out west since the 70's went to visit my uncle in santa monica and kinda did the tourist thing, stuck here for a year or 2, my mother is failing and i'll stick close while she is still here, after that who knows, planning on pulling up roots and moving AWAY from cotton and it's attendent poisons, haven't got a clue as to what I'm going to do, travel a bit and find somewhere where agricultural chemicals don't dominate the landscape. nashville is likely as i can return here when it is safe and help out clients that get into trouble with untrained help, lordy the mess one idiot can do in a hour,lol.
When it is time to remove a tree it is time, got a monster hanging over the house, was already a monster when I bought it but haven't gotten around to removing it, money to do it keeps getting spent on something better, lol.
Sit down brace yourself, I'm asking, just WHAT is a Sango Kaku, zone envy and i love to tease people ;D
take good care
jeff

I am so sorry to hear that your mother is failing. How wonderful to have an opportunity to be with her, but I'm sure that it's hard too.

So you are going to do the "Dance of No Form" for awhile. Not too common any more in this world. I wish you lots of luck and good adventures. And how kind of you to keep after your clients. There are not many who will follow up so faithfully. You are a treasure.

And yes. People can do a whole lot of damage in 1 hour. Just give them a hedge trimmer and let them go. Hedge trimmers are forbidden in my garden. I'd rather do it myself.

Sango Kaku = "Coral Bark Maple". I'm sure you know them - very common. They grow to 25-30 feet here it turns out. Arggghhh. I'm waiting to see what happens when it clears the roof. I probably ought to have it transplanted but it's already 12 feet tall. It's not one that is happy to be kept small either. At least this one isn't. It's probably all of the feeding of the azaleas and daylilies under it that has made it a monster with long whippy branches. Overfed it I believe. My other one is much better behaved.



This message was edited Apr 1, 2006 4:35 PM

Hedge trimmers are forbidden in my garden. I'd rather do it myself.


Ditto although my wife has addicted me to them when trimming the tall ornamental grasses around my three water gardens in the spring ...I let them sway all winter ( the grasses) but about Feb. they start discombobulating and entering the "sacred" water gardens ...then the electric trimmers make quick work of them otherwise the trimmers stay in the garage where they belong ;>) David

Oh, you are right. For the ritual of the grass trimming they are the perfect thing. And those grasses and carexii :-) need the axe or they look like a mess. Wives are so wise!

Yikes, the biggest one i have dealt with is just approaching 14 feet and it doesn't look like it is slowing down much, thin it every couple of years to keep it graceful. Courtyard i tend to a couple of times a year, have good non idiots for basics but i'm there for the tricky stuff. I have moved japanese maples that were about 15 feet and had good luck, a branch prune to bonsai type of spread and then a leaf prune of what is left to about 1/3 of the leaves on the tree, survived and was lovely the next year, did it in July, in the wrong spot for a pergola that was being instaled, I think it is an atropuream {sp} red in spring, green with red tones in summer and reddish orange in fall. Any way that was a success, then another that was about 12, gift of Don Shadow and they had lost the name, lovely all summer red, but softer than bloodgood, simular treatment but it had been growing in a whisky barrel and allowed to reach though to the ground, yeah it survived but we had to cover it with muslin. another late summer move, September i think, but i've lost small ones though, ya just never know. A client had a 10 footer brought in and it survived the winter, so a 12 should be doable. An old trick i picked up in England is to dig 1/2 around the root ball and wait till the next year and do it again, then 3rd year lift, reduces the shock considerable, they did that here at the Botanic gardens when a 100 year old dog wood was slated for the bull dozer, but they compressed it to 1 year and it lived and is doing fairly well.
Thank you for your sympathy, Cissy is doing remarkably well but is 86 and hasn't a whole lot longer, supposed to be dead, given 6 months at best, 9 months ago, but she keep confounding the Docs and chugging along, now they aren't even giving a time frame any more, makes me chuckle, she ain't stubborn, she's pig headed. She is slipping mentaly but still pretty much herself, we are real lucky, it could be so much worse
I've made friends with most of my clients, and those i don't like, i just raise my rates to em till i will work for em, lol, a few are REAL expensive, but I love doing it but i'm getting a bit long in the tooth and i'm open to options, I've got less than 10 productive years in this field and i'm not ready to retire, but cotton chemicals are keeping me from working enough that it effects my retirement, so somethings gotta give somewhere. I love the term " Dance of no Form" that is it exactly.
Hedge trimmers, i do use them, depends 0n the client and on the plant, small leafed ones it isn't all that bad for a brutal trimming, esp if you go back and remove the damaged ends with snips, but for a light hair cut, i do love shears, much more attractive or snips if you are going for the subtle effect, takes forever and costs the earth but you never know it has been trimmed, have a few that want that enough for me to do it. I'll have to try em on grasses, i usually use shears as they are easy to sharpen but i bet they really get it done quickly. What do you use on water iris, i usually try a bow saw first and an axe second, tied a chain saw once, now that was a lovely mess. I had manured an iris pseudocora[sp], I wouldn't recommed it in anything less than an acre swamp.
Good luck with the monster.