Conifers from Seed - Have you started any?

Hi all,
My favorite gardening pastime is propagation. I start plants from seed and cuttings; I have not yet learned to graft (hopefully, soon!).

I try and grow a few conifers from seed every year, whether the species is hardy here or not. I can always give the seedlings to someone who can actually grow the plant in the ground, if the plants are not hardy here in zone 4a.

I purchased an ounce of Cedrus libani var. stenocoma seed this spring and I have the seeds sown and in the fridge. I always soak all of my seed in water prior to sowing the seed, so the seed can imbibe as much moisture as it wants prior to being sown.

When I put the Cedrus seed in the cup of water only two seeds sunk to the bottom of the cup. I was so bummed since the float test is one way to determine if the seed is viable or not (this does not work on ALL seeds, however). On the advice from our "local" conifer expert, Resin, I let the seed soak in the water for a couple of days, in the fridge, and then sowed all of the seed that sank to the bottom of the cup. I was surprised that almost half of the seed sunk to the bottom of the cup.

Yesterday, I couldn't stand it any longer, so I cut one of the seeds in half and to my surprise, there was a nice green "shoot" in the center of the seed, surrounded by a white material (cotyledon or food reserves - I don't know what to call it?). If I hadn't cut the seed in half, I think the seed would have germinated. I am not going to cut any more seeds in half!!! (:o)

So far, I have sown the following seeds:

Metasequoia glyptostroboides
Cedrus libani var. stenocoma
Pinus koraiensis
Sciadopitys verticillata
Pinus bungeana
Abies bornmulleriana
Abies lasiocarpa var arizonica
Pinus contorta var contorta
Abies procera glauca
Pinus sylvestris var mongolica
Syringa pekinensis (I know, it's not a conifer, but I bet I have 100% seed germination already).

The Pinus contorta var contorta is already starting to germinate as well. I didn't get the seed put into the fridge fast enough and I guess cold-stratification isn't necessary with this seed because it is germinating.

So, does anyone else have any conifers that they have started from seed? If so, what conifers have you started from seed? And is there anything special that you do to help ensure that you get good germination?
Thanks,
Mike

I don't start many conifers from seed, but the ones I have tried all seemed to germinate very readily, epigeally, and without stratification. Trays full of them look like colonies of hydra in an aquarium, with their star-shaped cotyledons -- so different from broadleaf trees.

BTW, I'll be happy to serve as a repository for some of your zone 5 seedlings!
;-)

Guy S.

Hi Mike:

Volunteering from the Valley, accepting zones V and VI.

Never have tried conifer seed, though I seem to get copious crops from Abies nordmanniana, Picea omorika, and Picea orientalis annually. Have even had a couple of seedlings of Pinus strobus come up under a parent tree, and I would never have believed that possible here in central KY.

Maybe I'll send the next bunch to you...

Oops, forgot italics.

This message was edited Feb 23, 2006 12:02 AM

Ok, there will be seedlings coming your way this spring, depending on what comes up.
Mike

What has me worried is that the seed that I cut in half may have been the only viable seed and now it won't germinate due to being cut in half!!! Ahhhhh...... (:o)
Mike

I know that feeling all too well. So far, all of my worries have been for nought. Everytime I have gone exploring and wasted one, other from the same batch germinated. Don't worry, you'll get nice new babies.

And, I've gotten so much conflicting info on the C. libani var. stenocoma seed germination.

I've read that stenocoma is a frost-germinator and the seed needs cold conditions to germinate. Dirr says that libani has no pretreatment needs, but that two weeks of chill will help germination, but isn't necessary.

I have 3 pots of seeds so I think that I will take one out of the fridge after another couple of weeks and see if any of the seeds germinate.
Mike

Do you know of C. libani var. stenocoma being grown successfully in your area?
I'd like to try it myself but I have been reluctant to devote the time and space to a plant of questionable hardiness here.
Are all of these on your list recently sown or are they plants grown in previous years?
I'd be interested in your progress with Sciadopitys verticillata. Its another that I haven't tried yet but hope to try sometime soon. I think that I have read that its challenging to grow from seed.

Not sure about TL3, but I also live in the same area, have known a few people who tried stenocoma but haven't been successful for more then about 5 years outside. Treelover3 might know someone though. Also, since stenocoma is a variety. There could be genetic variation, but I don't know what all is available in horticulture.

I have germinated Sciadopitys. Sprouted mid to late August. Not to promising a time frame here in 4a, and they didn't make it through the winter. Late season germination seems to be the norm with this species.

Rick

passarb,
All of the trees on the list were just sown this year. The only two that have germinated so far are the Pinus contorta var. contorta and the Syringa pekinensis (lots of them, I'll try and post a pic.)

There are a couple of Cedrus growing in the area but they are fairly recent additions.

No, C. l. var. stenocoma is not a long-lived tree in our area, but it sure is fun to experiment. I have a couple of grafted Cedrus libani 'Nana' in pots and since they will stay small, I am hoping to find a spot where they will have a chance to survive long-term (read: lots of snow cover).

Do you know what zone you're in, in Syracuse? Are you 4 or 5? If you're zone 5, you should be able to grow both the Cedrus and the Sciadopitys with very few problems. If I get a number of the Cedrus seed to germinate, I'll be more than happy to send you a couple to try. Let me know if you're interested?

Rick,
Thanks for the info on the Sciadopitys germination. Did you have the seed outside over the winter or did you have it in the fridge and then take the seed outside for germination? If I get any of the seeds to germinate, I think I will keep them in my cold basement for the first couple of winters to get some size to them.
Mike

The Sciadopitys seeds were stratified in the fridge first, then planted in a pot outside.

Syracuse gets a LOT more snow than we do too, don't they?

Here is the picture of the Syringa pekinensis seedlings (and my table-'gator (:o).

Mike


This message was edited Mar 4, 2006 2:25 PM

And here is a picture of the Pinus contorta var. contorta seedlings.

Mike

I have a feeling that the Pinus contorta var. contorta are not going to be hardy here in zone 4a? Can anyone confirm or deny that? I think that Pinus contorta var latifolia is the P. contorta that is hardy here? Correct?

Guy and VV, I will be sending you a few of the P. contorta, if you want them? Any interest in the S. pekinensis? Let me know... These are the only two seeds that have germinated so far. I will have others later this spring, if you're interested? LMK...
Thanks,
Mike

Well, I did a Google search and found that P. c. var contorta is hardy to only zone 7.

Bummer.

Hmm... now what do I do with these seedlings???
Mike

Yeah, it's subsp. latifolia you want, for it to be hardy

Resin

Hi Mike I'd love a few (3) of your Syringa pekinensis... Great flaky bark on those! Take a look below and name your price!

I have seedlings of:
Platycladus orientalis - that one from my parents home. @ least a hundred.
Pinus resinosa - lots have germinated
Picea abies ' lots have germinated
Abies nordmanniana 'Ambrollauri' - Not many as the seed has germinated successfully but having dampening off problems.
Larix decidua a good 20 have popped.
So far (9) Metasequoia glyp have popped and just finished stratifying an additional (4) packets I bought so expecting a pretty big harvest.

Conifers I'm waiting on:
Pinus strobus - just sowed yesterday
Cedrus libani var stenocoma - like yours, mine haven't germinated but have been sown for some time already.
Abies numidica - no germ yet - but were sown 2 months or so ago.
*Ginkgo biloba - 51 in pots - just sown yesterday
Abies koreana 'Aurea' no germ. been waiting for several months
(3) Pinus parviflora cultivars still in the fridge:
'Bergman' (25 seeds) collected at Bickelhaupt Arboretum
'Hagoromo' (4 seeds) Bickelhaupt
'Glauca' (18 seeds) Bickelhaupt

Deciduous material:
Carpinus caroliniana - sown yesterday
Quercus robur Fastigiata - sown yesterday (19)
Nyssa sylvatica - sown months ago. No germ yet.
Fagus sylvatica - only (2) seedlings emerged thus far out of (15 or so)
(2) seedlings from Acer palmatum 'Seiryu' have popped - hopefully more to come.
Acer pseudosieboldianum - sown some time ago. No germ yet.
Acer palmatum - just checked on them (good timing!) the bag in fridge is loaded with seeds that have germed.
Liquidambar styraciflua - cold stratifying still

I suppose Lavender is considered a shrub as well..
I have (64) Lavendula angustifolia 'Czech' pinched/potted and branching well.
I have quite a few Lavendula angustifolia 'Hidcote' that have germinated that I'll be potting up in a week or two.

Plus all the cuttings - I'm getting the greenhouse and basement going fairly strongly at this point.

Cuttings of Hibiscus syriacus 'Helene' now pushing growth (I must have 50 of them)
I stuck 21 Hibiscus syriacus 'Bluebird' today.
Thuja's 'Rosenthalii', 'Emerald Variegated', 'Yellow Ribbon'
Chamaecyparis pisifera 'Vintage Gold' (2 look good out of 20)
Metasequoia's (species and 'Ogon' / 'Gold Rush')
Platycladus 'Collen's Gold'
Cuttings from that Golden Platycladus at my parents home (doing so so)

Dax

ViburnumValley and Starhill,

You're both welcome to the lot as well!

Dax

Didn't we already discuss somewhere how INCREDIBLY EASY syringa is to germinate? You must have missed that, Mike!

Nice ch-ch-ch-chia though.

Same for others seeking as well..

Dax

Thanks very much for the offers, Mike and Dax, but upon further consideration, I'm about to burst at the seams here already. And I probably couldn't keep P. contorta going here in zone 5, with resultant guilt trip for killing your babies! Maybe Viburnum would have better luck with them down there in the banana belt. We do have P. c. latifolia here, doing well except for needle fungi that hit it hard in wet years. (Hey -- what's a wet year? I forget!)

I saw some magnificent Cedrus libani v. stenocoma in Turkey a few years ago, and would love to be able to grow that here. Thus far I've tried one and killed it after a few years. I think maybe it didn't like our humidity.

Guy S.

You are kidding right? If you have extras, I'd love to buy one of each one of these-
Metasequoia glyptostroboides
Metasequoia's (species and 'Ogon' / 'Gold Rush')
Ginkgo biloba

Hi Equilibrium,

Email - Dmail me at the onset of Fall. They'll be fully rooted and safe to send then. No charge...

I need to set some of my trade list settings a bit differently I think.

See ya,

Dax

Hi Dax,
No problem, but you can have more than 3! I don't know what I'm going to do with all of the Syringa seedlings? I'll stick them in the box with the Metasequoia.
Thanks,
Mike

Fantastic, thank you. Want any seedlings I have/cuttings? I transplanted (100) from that Platycladus at my folks house today. I'll throw anything else you might want in when I send you off something for that Metasequoia.

Here's some pics from what I have going on at the moment:

Dax

The Grafts have been callousing for a long time (two months) bumped the temps up to 60+ this past week or better and the cuttings are coming alive as are some of the grafts. I had some extremely poor understock being rootbound in 4" "Rose Pots" to start with unfortunately. So if my grafts don't make it, I'll bet the understock dies first from either drowning or from having been so rootbound. Anyway, here goes some photos from this morning.

Some of the Conifer Grafts