Help me pick a tree....

Hi! I have about a 70' span of curb side yard that I would like to put some trees. I don't know how many trees I could fit into this area, it depends on the varieties you'd suggest. Here are the requirements:

* Growable in zone 8
* Taller than wide (it would half span a street and then half in my yard of 60' W, but I don't want it to completely shade my yard which has a vegetable garden on the opposite side yard). Thinking more like an oval type of shape so it doesn't hang over the yard so much as provide screening.
* Long lived
* Isn't messy (leaves are ok, but not interested in like berries or nuts or sap...)

Any suggestions will be appreciated. I will research some and post options....

I like Florida Maple (acer barbatum). I know it grows in zone 8 here where I live, but i'm not sure if San Antonio would be too dry or not. It is a slow growing tree but the fall color is great.

Thank-you escam. I have a red maple in the front and really like it. Beautiful red fall color and right now has red buds!

I looked up each of these plants in the plantfiles (found them on NatureHills.com) but details seem lacking. If you know about them, please post.

*Autumn Purple Ash...50-70 H, 35-50 W, oval shaped, rapid growth, purple leaves/fall
*Cimmaron Ash...50-60 H, 25-30 W, pyramid shaped, rapid growth
*Green Ash...decided against after comments in DG that it is over-used and susceptible to a non-native insect "emerald ash borer" which has killed millions of these in the N)
*Pin Oak....60-80H, 40-50 W, pyramid shaped, dense, rapid growth (12-15 feet in 5-7 years), bright red leaves in the fall (beautiful!)


I have also decided I would like a small flowering tree in the corner of the yard (inside the fence, not at the curb)...some options:

*Magnolia Ann...8-10 H, 10 W, pyramid shaped, 7-9" petals of mauve flowers
*Magnolia Saucer....details kinda broad on DG...do you have more?
*Sweetheart Cherry...requires no pollinator, 20 H, 20-30 W, sweet cherry
*Stella Cherry...15-16 H, 20-30 W, sweet

As always, thanks for your help!
Edited for spelling...opps.


This message was edited Feb 20, 2006 9:41 PM

Rats....as far as not dropping too much debris I guess all Oaks have acorns and the ash drop those "helicopter" seedlings.

Needing more options.

Aimee, I would be cautious about planting any ash right now, given the developing borer epidemic. And pin oak needs moist acid soil and room for its lower branches to sweep the ground -- not ideal for curbside use.

Consider something like your native Buckley's oak (Quercus buckleyi, formerly Q. texana) or lacey oak (Q. laceyi). Visit the San Antonio Botanical Center for ideas, then visit your local nurseries and see what they have. In your region there are hundreds of wonderful choices.

Guy S.

Ummm, Ash is a really great tree and under normal circumstances I would tell you to buy em all up but... the Emerald Ash Borer is not too discriminating in its search for Ash. It goes after all species and it doesn't particularly care if a tree is young or old or stressed or not so put your money back in your pocket there little lady and pick a few more trees to buy. Everything on your list is probably fine save the Ash trees. Regarding that Oak, it won't fruit for about 50 years and I'm sure you will have moved on by then. Buy an oak! Matter of fact, you might want to consider even more oaks. There are quite a few that would lend themselves to your location. Go and pick Guy's brain.

Regarding NatureHills, the few trees I have bought from them lived. They sell an incredible amount of "popular" trees and shrubs but what little I have received from them was healthy and affordable.

Why don't you ask some of the people here for suggestions of online nurseries that have trees and shrubs available for sale from your general area as their chances for survival are greater if they are grown closer to home.

Guy, how does everyone know so much about SA!? That is so neat...someone else from another state mentioned a dog show I should visit this weekend at the Alamodome?! Weird....okay, tangant.

Okay, good to know about the ash. So I guess it is not specific, the borers eat ALL ashes. Rats. The Autumn Purple Ash was looking SOOO pretty! And reminiscent of my childhood with all the "helicopters" falling to the ground =).

I will look up that Buckley's Oak. Thanks Guy.

Equil, well I'm not a fan of ordering from online, we have several great nurseries close, and I'm picky when it comes to picky a good trunk on a tree (notice I didn't say on PICKING the tree....haha....). So anyways, I am just checking online nurseries for details and multiple pics. I guess I was under the impression that Oaks have limbs close to the ground? I have a 6' fence that has about 7 feet to the road so I need something that will at least clear the fence....

Thanks for the help so far!

Oh yeah, what do you all think of Magnolia trees? My real Q I guess, can they be pruned to stay small??? I am liking the Saucer.

This message was edited Dec 23, 2007 4:50 PM

Mentioned the Buckley to husband in other room...said no. I looked it up said it gets up to 75' but he swears the "Buckley's" (aka Texas Red Oak) he has seen are shorter. Hmmm.....? Good to know about the acorns though!

What about sycamore's? Those grow much taller than wide, correct?

Oh, important note: I have underground utilities so no worries about height.

AA:

Consider the bald cypress (Taxodium distichum) for a fine tree, vigor in growth, fine foliage with little to clean up after. Should do OK in San Antonio. Seems I remember it along your Riverwalk area (based on all of one visit in 1995 for ASLA conference).

Speaking of: that's a well-planted area. Maybe a stroll through there will give you some additional ideas?

Ohhhhhhhhhhh ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Bald Cypress! Now there's a tree.

Funny, I was in that area for a conference about 20 years ago and walked down the River Walk and I remember it being lush to this day. I couldn't tell you what trees were growing down there but the area was beautiful and I thought there were palms down there. Odd memory as I suppose there are no palms down there. Do they still have boat rides down there? Oddly enough what I recall about that area is the physical size of the Alamo. It's been a long time since I've been there and perhaps my memory is failing but the Alamo is small as in shockingly small, right? I can't imagine how so few men held out for so long in the Alamo. Amazing.

What about a Blackgum? Or if you don't mind pine needles, the Longleaf Pine is a very majestic tree.

Try this one out one of my favorites. Styrax Japonica 20 to 25 ft tree that has beautiful flowers hanging underneath beautiful green foilage. It looks spectacular in Summer-Winter. I does require water.

I have a few suggestions that may be "outside the box".

Cordia boissieri (Texas Olive) http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/2246/index.html which may grow too wide but has constant blooms.

Grevillea robusta (Silky Oak) http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/31759/index.html which will probably stay within size because you're on the colder end of it's zone. There's one down the street from me and I'm impressed!

Koelreuteria bipinnata (Chinese Flame Tree) http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/68698/index.html seed pods are red and yellow blooms

Bauhinia lunarioides (Anacacho Orchid Tree) http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/ornamentals/nativeshrubs/bauhinialunarioid.htm a nice blooming native of Texas

Eucalyptus ssp. Several Eucalyptus can make good street trees given proper planting with rocks to anchor the plant to prevent wind blow-down. Easily trained, drought tolerant and cold-hardy. Snow Gums are nice for the white trunk http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/53837/index.html

Your botanic garden and its director are pretty well known far beyond the limits of Texas. So is your River Walk. Cordia and Bauhinia are great suggestions! Let's start using more of such regionally native species. And about Buckley's oak, it stays fairly small and is basically a miniature shumard oak. I've never seen one more than about 35 feet, and often you find it with multiple stems. Lacey oak is medium-sized with attractive blue-tinted foliage. They both develop nice fall color too, at least farther north. There are other fine oaks down there too, like Quercus gravesii. A few native-tree nurseries sell them -- try Pat McNeal in Manchaca for starters.

Guy S.

Equil, thanks for your memory of the Riverwalk. Actually what's LEFT of the Alamo is very small. It used to be a huge compound of sorts and it was mostly destroyed....the heart of it is all that is left. They still do boat rides and are constantly trying to improve the experience of it. Any of you remember the trees sticking OUT of the sides of multi story buildings!? Yeah, so weird! HA!

Don't bald cypress do best near a body of water? (Hence the Riverwalk?)

Escam, blackgum I have heard is a good tree. I will look up details on that.

Growin, wow about the eucalyptus, I had thought a couple months ago it was a nice small plant, NOPE it's a TREE! And man do they get massive!!!!! I will check your links but mostly looking for something that won't cause too much debris. 1 small flowering tree in my back corner would be ok....what do you guys think of the options I'd posted above?

Guy thanks for the details. This thread has been very helpful. I think I will research Texas grown trees a bit more for recommendations! =)

Oh and Guy, I thought of another tree to compare to the Bradford!!!! If someone had said it is an invasive as the Mesquite I would have run out and chopped them down right then. HAHAHA! Just thought of that.


This message was edited Feb 21, 2006 6:51 PM

Does anyone know anything about the Black Locust Tree or the Shademaster Honey Locust Tree?

Any good reports on the Red Maple?

Red Maple is a nice tree but it usually likes moist soil. Central Texas may be a little too dry during the summer. Somebody else might know more about this than me though. Hackberry might be a little more drought tolerant.

Thank-you!

Sassafras would also be a good choice.

How tall and wide on that one?

I have read the maximum height is about 60ft . I would assume they would be 25-30ft in width. Back in the old days they used the roots of sassafras to make root beer. I've heard you can crush the leaves and get a similar aroma.

The Eucalyptus I mentioned doesn't have too much debris as the leaves are larger. Eucalyptus debeuzevellei (Blue Mountain Snow Gum) has survived -23C. Here's one I planted in the back lane.

It's probably not a good idea for a cheese head ( does anyone not think its cool to wear a wedge of cheese on your head?) to recommend trees for someone in the lone star state, but long ago on a far a way forum someone posted a picture of a Chinese Pistache that blew me away. I really don't know how it would do in your part of Texas, but it's a beautiful tree and might be worth checking out.

http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/cemap/pistache/pistache.html

Maa, thanks for the link. Kinda confused about your previous comment though? How can I learn if I don't know what's out there? And if I go out into the Texas landscape I'm bound to see a handful of varieties and that's it: crepe myrtal, OAK OAK OAK (blah), the magnolia (nice but too low and wide), the mesquite (don't think anyone plants these intentionally...hehe) and a few mountain laurels. I have rarely seen a Maple but am able to buy them....so that's one I have. So I guess you'll have to explain more what you meant about people not being able to recommend trees for TX.

Oh, the local garden centers are over loaded right now with the Chinese Pistachio...so it's an option. Thanks.

Chinese Pistachio: 40T, 30W. Would like something a little more tall than wide and able to tower a 2 story. Thinking since I can't have the beautiful Autumn Purple Ash I'll use Red Maple. Very uncommon in these parts. =)

And the female Chinese Pistachio also drops clusters ofround green berries (very pretty) so it wouldn't be a nice thing next to a sidewalk/curbside. No way you could tell if it's male or female from the garden centers....?

Aimee,

I simply meant that I'm reluctant to recommend trees for an area that's so different from the climate I'm familiar with. I'm not saying it's wrong to do so, I'm just a bit uncomfortable doing it. Now that I've got that out of the way, have you considered Acer truncatum? Just kidding.

Maa, =). I understand, no prob.

Mimosa Trees looked good in Salt Lake City quite dry. Oops it might be invasive there?

Sugarberry (celtis laevigata) is recommended for planting in central Texas and is native there. It is southern version of the Hackberry tree. They will grow to about 70ft tall and 40ft wide. Nice fast growing shade tree that is drought tolerant once established. I bought one from this nursery www.mailordernatives.com at an affordable price.

You have all been great...I think I have enough to go on now! =)

alamoaimee, You asked if any one had experience with Gledista Shademaster Honey Locust. I have one in my yard for about 10 years and do like the shape of it. It is about 20 feet tall now. Every fall has some of the wide, dark brown seed pods, with i think quite attractive and no problem when they finally fall into the plants below. I had Gledista Morraine locust for more than 20 years at my other place. I loved that tree, created shade but not dense, and the small leaves weren't much of a cleanup problem. Grew faster than my Shademaster does. But when I was buying trees 10 years ago couldn't find a source for Morraine. FF sells several but not that one.

DonnaS

Donna, yes I had read that with the locusts they have such fine leaves you needn't really rack. What a treat! Thanks for the info.

Acer truncatum was mentioned, along with a "just kidding", but I'm not kidding. The shantung maple is a Texas Superstar, 25' high by 20' wide, tolerates heat and alkaline soils, has beautiful shiny green foliage with wonderful fall color - even for south Texas! It's a great plant for your area, and shouldn't impact your vegetable garden. The winged samaras are a beautiful deep red - the tree looks like it's flowering in the spring. One of my most favorite trees! Anyway - just a thought......

This message was edited Feb 25, 2006 3:57 PM

Has anyone heard of the shrub SKY PENCIL? I know it's on DG and I have seen it available at ONE nursery in SA but they want 20 bucks each. Pretty pricey when I was hoping to have a bunch of them. =)

Yep, it's a holly - Ilex crenata. Here's more info: http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/53332/index.html
(and a link to six mailorder vendors that carry it ;o)