Heuchera, Heucherella and Tiarella growing conditions

Okay, here's one of the reasons I wanted this forum. I'm finding conflicting information about the growing conditions these plants require, and I'm just not sure which to believe. Let's all share our experiences and knowledge in growing these beauties.

For starters, I know that some heucheras can take some sun, but Tiarellas are happiest in almost total shade, and XHeucherellas prefer full sun or they won't bloom well and the foliage will fade.

Joan I think to some extent it depends on wherev you are. ND is pretty far up there. I have a stop light Heucherella in a spot where it gets about 5 hrs sun. It is doing fine. If i put heuchera out in full sund own here they will get fried in July and August. I do not have Heuchera, Heucherella are Tiarrellas in full sun.

Your not the only one been bugging them about a forum like this Joan. Several of us from Hosta Forum have been after them.

You are right. It probably does depend on where you live. I was going from my reference and research for my area. It's good to know that they don't do well in sun in the south. I'm sure everyone will appreciate that info.

Hmmm...I'm just thinking, and wondering if I should edit my first post with all the updated information as more people reply? What do you think? Then the first post will eventually have the correct information all in one post for those that don't want to weed through the whole thread. I like that idea, but I won't unless everyone also likes the idea.

I'll do a sample of what I'm thinking of with your information ozarkian. Let me know what you think.

When you say don't bury the crown.

Mine seem to grow 'out' of the ground and I have been digging them up and putting them back down in. Is that burying the crown. If I don't do that they get so leggy looking to me at least. What should I do?

They all do this on me, am I doing something wrong?

Susan
=^..^=

I think the reason they say not to bury the crown is because of crown rot. If you don't live in a moist/humid area, you may be okay burying the crown? It seems to be working for you though, right? I hope someone else will have a better answer.

Certainly not moist lately. LOL
We are in the biggest drought I can remember. But that isn't always the case. At least I hope it's not.

Hope we get an expert soon.

Susan
=^..^=

I just found this little tidbit of information, so you may be right.

Divide them every couple of years and 'bring them back to earth'. Eventually they tend to have stems that are too long. If that happens, just break them apart and plant them farther down in the soil.

Already lots of great info here,,,Joan you are right,,,,there is a ton of conflicting info. Some of my Heuchera didn't like it at all in mostly shade,,,so I moved them to mostly sun and they are thriving???????

I had 2 that were almost complete goners and when I moved them to the sun,,,they perked right up. I have one Heucherella in complete shade,,,guess I"ll be moving that baby. The Heuchera's that I do have in more sun are on the North side of the house in a bed about12' from the house that pretty much get's sun most of the day.

I have 'Capuccino' and 'Dolce Peach Melba' there and I have 'Stormy Sea's' on the East side right along the house. I moved my 'Monet' to a sunnier location last year and it was doing a bit better,,,will have to see this spring. I have 'Pewter Veil' in a mostly shady spot,,,it gets some late afternoon sun and seems to like it there.

Some of the others were new last year so I'm hoping they like where I put them,,,,will see about those this year also.

Joan,
I agree as to editing your first post with the newest info.

Kelly

Kittymom I know what made yours jump up I read somewhere where a fast freeze will make them jump out od the ground. Remember in the past year are so we had heavy rains in this area then a fast freeze after. Happened last winter. either that are the squirrelies are after them. I have seen them dig up a new hosta. Rotten little grays is what they are. Maybe you can tell them off in squirrelize. You know chit chit chi chi chi chit chit chit. Are whatever you say to them.

oz,
ROFLOL,,,,,no matter what,,,you can Always make me LOL

No kidding....ROFLMBO

The jumping up was during the summer however, so I don't think it was a freeze. Might have been a gopher.....how do they go?????

Susan
=^..^=

What you do not know how the gophies go!!!!!!!!! You are slipping Missy doolittle. Did any of you look at some of those links joan sent. The one in VA sounds real real good. Threy got Persain Carpet also. They are very upfront about what they do and the shipping situation. Even show a couple of pics of plants being shipped.

I was so trying not to look,,,but I did,,lol,,,I now have a couple more on my wish list,,,lol

I did indeed look. LOL

And I have more than couple more on the list.

Susan
=^..^=

Susan,
I didn't want to admit to any more than a couple,,,oz already thinks I'm a hopeless addict,,,rofl

Kelly

you could be addicted to worse things Kelly. I am going to order today I think from the place in VA, if I don't you two will buy it all up.

And Susan I am still surprised at you not knowing how the gophers go. I would suppose if they were girl gophers they would squat and boys would lift there leg. But you are the expert.

oz,
LOL,,,Very true. Which ones will you be ordering from them? I want to wait yet,,,to early and I want to get the new beds in first.

LOL @ gophers.

KELly

Kelly I am not going to order anything from them. I do not like the shipping and handeling chareges of nearlly 50 % on the order I had put together. It was $57 and the charges were $22. I will go to Kansas City and St Louis. Kansas city in particular has a awful lot of very fine plant places. I been telling Missy Doolittle that now since i been on here. I figure it would bew about 2-3 hrs fro her up to KC. They have a hosta place up there called Blue Ridge that the old girl might faint in.

oz,
Those shipping prices are really high. Hope you can find the ones you want at the nursery's there.

Yes, she prolly would,,,lol

Kelly

Kelly we went to Kansas City with a neighbor who lived there a long time. This one place was all flowers and it was as big as a large super market. The place Blue Ridge is known all over the area for Hosta. He also has a few rare plants. I bought my Tri Color Beech up there. Ther is also a place SW of K.C. in Warrensburg Mo that has a web site. It is called Serinity Hosta Haven. It looks like a dump and is in a bad neighborhood but a awful lot of people go there. He is planning on moving further SW about 30 miles to a area a lot closer to me. He has bought I think 40 acres out there. He is really a collector at heart

oz,
Both places sound wonderful. Well, the one will be better when they get out of the bad neighborhood.

Ooooo, you must be like a kid in a candy store when you go there,,,,,or should I say a fisherman in a bait store???? rofl

Kelly

Joan, I found this info for growing hosta in the Deep South in Dan Heims' book.

"Huecheras prefer cool night temperatures. The warmer the summer nights, the more critical drainage becomes: it is vital that extra drainage be used in the Deep South. Some unadapted heucheras will succumb to the high heat and humidity of the Deep South by staying in a state of suspended animation until the nights cool down. Fertilizer must not be applied to plants in these conditions, as they cannot process the food and can actually be killed by this treatment."

Sandy

I am going to go to bed and read some more of that book Sandy got to get up at 4;30 tomorrow to be in Jeff City at 6:30 for wifes appointment. Plus picking up a couple of her friends that are going with us. Car full of women.

oz,
You lucky guy you,,,lol

Have fun tomorrow.

Kelly

Here's a site that has some good information about growing them. http://www.devonian.ualberta.ca/getgro116.html

And another: http://doityourself.com/flowers/whatsnewwithheuchera.htm

This message was edited Feb 9, 2006 1:00 PM

Joan one of the things said in that piece from doityourself.com was the need for rich soil. I go along with that. the new bed that i will be planting this spting has about 2 inches of turkey compost setting on top of another 2 inches of cotton burr compost. to this I am going to add about one foot of top soil. I but my turkey compost right from the maker at $30 bucks a scoop. That is about 1200 lbs are a cubic yard.

I noticed that too, and some other sites say that too much fertilizer will kill them. Hmmm...see what I mean about conflicting information out there?

Hopefully after this forum has been here for awhile we can pool all of our experiences and figure this out ourselves. :) I just hope we don't lose plants. I'm thinking of fertilizing some of mine more than others and see what happens.

This tiurkey compost is pure black. looks like potting soil almost. I amtesting it right now. have grass planted in small pot of pure compost and more in another pot at 50% compost. both have spouted. also I have watered it several times when weather permits this winter mainly because of the drought we have been having. I tested it and the ph is nuteral when test ing by puching the testor into the wet ground. I think that is a true indication. might still add alfalfa pellets to my hosta beds in april.

Bridesmaid, in a pot, in the sunny courtyard does fine with normal watering.
Snow Angel definitely need to go to part shade.
Purple Palace hasn't given me any trouble in either full sun or part shade.
The common old one (from a neighbor) is now in full shade and does great.

When we put anything new in the ground we plant in a lot of our own compost and it probably retains enough moisture to keep them happy on the irrigation system. I do not feed them at all, ever.

Everything I plant around here goes down in very large holes and full compost from my tumbler are else cotton burr compost. sometimes a little top soil mixed in. I have to do it that way because I have the most rocky soil you have ever seen. And it is flint and dolmite. I have dug holes with a 40 lb RR pry bar before. Hosta love it though. I have a mantis twin composter for my own compost and mix 50% alfalfa meal with 25 % sawdust and the rest yard waiste. It used to be 50/50 with sawdust. I might cut down on the out this year all together in the first load and see how it works. That Alfalfa is some real fine stuff pirl if you have never used it.

I do add the bunny food (alfalfa pellets) to my hosta beds every spring, and the Heucheras are in there with them. So they do get food in that way, at least the ones that were there then. Most of my Heucheras were just planted last year after the bunny food feeding, so I'm not sure they got much. They will this spring though.

I have a compost problem here. It doesn't get warm enough to really make it work fast enough. The stuff I throw in the compost pile isn't ready for a year or two, and I can use it faster than that.

I promise to buy alfalfa this year. I'll be in the town that sells it tomorrow so I'll stop in and "just do it". Thanks for the tip. I had read of it for roses and daylilies but now I can use it on more plants and put the sludge in the compost. Thanks so much.

I can turn out a batch of alfalfa compost mix every two weeks all summer long. I just bought over a ton of turkey barn compost. Cost me $60 for two pickup loads. There is a poultry producers coop north of me and they have about 20 turkey barns. They have a barrel composter 10 feet in dia and 50 feet long. It makes a revolution every 14 minutes around the clock. It can hold over 50 tons of turkey littler and will reduce it to black almost potting soil like compost in 4 days. There is about 2-3 inches of it laying on top of all our beds right now except rings I create round the hosta crowns to keep it from direct conact with the crown. But by spring it will not matter. It is powerful stuff. I will leave it on top the ground until I guess april then scratch it in lightly. since we are in drought mode here i water it 2 or three times so far and will do so every weather break I get.

You deserve fantastic plants with the care you give them!

I've been thinking about the conflicting information regarding fertilizing heucheras and I have a theory. When they say heucheras do not like fertilizer, maybe they are referring to the addition of commercial food like miracle grow or synthetic fertilizer granules that you scratch in. I should think that compost and alfalfa pellets would be soil conditioners and soil enrichers, not fertilizers per se.

Sandy

Sandy,
I concur,,,,,LOL

Sandy chicken compost is pretty powerful stuff. According to my county extension agent it should be used at a rate of 1 to 10 and it can last years. Alfalfa we use on hosta because of a trace eliments in there. I am a big believer in alfalfa on hosta. but mine come on after it has been through my drum composter and composted with grass. Also one time i used pellets on the top scratched in.Have no idea what it is going to do to Heuchera. I will find out however because I will be buying both pellets and meal in another month.

I make a tea with alfalfa pellets. I let it steep for a couple of days and then I give a drink of it to all the plants in my garden. They LOVE it & reward me by putting out new growth, lots more flowers, look much greener & seem to be healthier!

I do that shirley but the alfalfa has been composted in my compost drums. Going to mix that tea this year with chicken litter compost.

Gotta remember to get that alfalfa meal!!!!!! Gonna need it for the beds,,,sounds like it works wonders,,,can't wait to try it.