Here are some buds/plantlets

Baby pings!

More baby pings-

Another baby ping-

And even more baby pings-

Now here are some ping leaves that still look viable after 4 weeks yet I see no pups. I suspect it may not be over yet or the parent leaf would have turned entirely to brown mush.

And here is my odd ball situation. I pulled 3 leaves from my gigantea. I placed two on damp vermiculite and sealed off the food storage container with Reynolds Wrap and a rubber band. My vermiculite must have been too moist because the leaves turned to mush in all of about 10 days. What is interesting is that I only had space to lay out 2 gigantea leaves in the food storage container yet I had pulled 3 leaves. I have read of people laying ping leaves out on top of the medium next to the parent plant and getting plantlets but I had never tried it before. I figured I had nothing to lose so I placed the third gigantea leaf on top of the potting medium next to the parent plant. Interestingly enough... there is a tiny bud on that leaf that is not showing up in my photo. You can tell the leaf is still viable but you can't see the little pup yet. Too cool. I lose the 2 gigantea leaves that were prepared properly and I get a strike from the leaf that was tossed on top of the mix.

I need to learn to scroll down on these forums. I missed this thread. Aren't those baby pings the cutest?

Oh gosh, I forgot about this thread. The babies aren't so little any longer, They doubled since these photos were taken about a week ago. I took the Reynolds Wrap off now and increased their light by 2 hours. They are very happy ping a lings so far. I will move them into individual mini pots as soon as the leaves start shriveling up. The gigantea I will leave where it is as that's not in a vermiculite tray.

Will you put these in your white cups?

I don't know??? I hadn't decided what to put in my cups yet. I've been going back and forth on that. I have 6 different little ping a lings to choose from so 4 of my babies might actually be kind of neat. I could a different species into each cup. Do you ever get something that you sort of hang onto because you really like it and you want something perfect and it doesn't slap you in the face? Well, that's sort of where I'm at. I have to see my baby ping a lings grow up a little bit more to see if they are worthy of being planted in those cups ;)

Oh yeah, I do hear you! I've been 'hanging on' to my entire front area by the road for the last 5 years because I haven't had any epiphany about what would work there. (Much to my uppity neighbor's chagrin!) This year, I have a budding plan! You'll find just the right thing for the cups.

Whatcha gonna do out front? Create a big bog and plant a wave of tall pitchers and post a sign smack dab in the middle that reads, "Beware- Plants Bite"? Bet your uppity neighbors would love that.

Oh yeah! I would love to do that! They are really very nice folks, but he's a retired general and I think he was in the military too long. They always really love my garden, and the wife is always wanting me to come back to their yard and give her ideas, but none of them ever come to fruition. Too bad for her. I feel she is a squelched artistic spirit.

My front area is quite large and has several large doug fir trees on one side. Fortunately, the rest of the area has lovely full sun. What had me stumped was 1) how to divide the area into spaces rather than one huge area 2) how to make it sort of low-maintenance and still keep the look I love and that matches the rest of the yard. I have a shrub border along the fence, much of which was already there when we moved in. Several very large beauty bushes, to which I've added a few more, and some rhododendrons. Then I put in some burning bush so there would be fall color. What I plan is to divide the area into planting spaces with paths in between, like the other part of the yard. I'll bring in soil and do some raised beds, using my huge mountain of concrete pieces made into boulders by adding hypertufa. The plantings will be hardy, full-sun xeriscaping types like lavendar and santolina since I don't have water plumbed to that area of the yard. It will match the other side of the driveway nicely and I can use many of the plants I already have. I want to put in some hardy succulents and cacti in small areas. As usual, the plan will develope as I work on the area. It will be another huge project. Last year's was the pond. Probably I'll start a thread when I actually begin the work. I have to wait for the weather to warm up before I can get to the concrete work. Also have to move two huge rhodies that are just 'wrong' for the area but have been there so long I'll probably have to use the truck to pull them out. They are really lovely and I want to move them soon so they can get established somewhere else before summer.

Can I make a suggestion, will you please do a search of your Burning Bush on the Internet. Please look for it under Euonymus alatus. If you think you might want to substitute out that plant for any reason, I can give you a few choices that have equally as wonderful fall color that would attract butterflies, moths, and birds to that area.

Your plant sounds really nice. I suspect if you pull off out front what you pulled off out back that it will be an extension of paradise.

Burning Bush evil. EVIL, I tell you!

Oops, meant to type that your plans (not plant) for your front yard sound nice.

This afternoon I sent a response to your suggestion and I don't even see it posted here! RATS!
I am using Euonymus alata 'Compacta', which is a dwarf variety not known to be invasive. Also, the regular burning bush is not considered invasive in this area. I checked the Dept . of AG website as well as the Washington Invasive Species Coalition. (They are at the big flower and garden show every year with a rep dressed up as some invasive weed or another.) They hand out updated info every year and are totally on top of things.
Incidently, Ilex aquifolium is considered a Class C noxious weed here, as is Hedera helix.
I've emailed the folks at the coalition just to be sure, but I have their literature from last year and there's nothing on it. The Washington State University Extension, which sponsors the Master Gardening Program, recently planted this cultivar in their children's garden, so I think I'm safe.
Now Butterfly Bush, Buddleia davidii, is another story altogether! It's simply everywhere here.
By the way, here is a good link if you don't already have this one:
http://www.nps.gov/plants/alien/list/e.htm
Thanks for the headsup.

Sorry about the Ilex, there are hundreds of different species out there. I shouldn't have commented that it wasn't invasive without knowing which species it was. The Ilex aquifolium is definitely invasive. The G3 RTU will work on that plant quite nicely.

Sadly, my state is not all that progressive in adding plants to the hall of shame list once they are identified as being invasive. The green industry is very powerful. I just wrote a letter about that darn Euonymus alata as well as Calleryana Pears. Volunteers are removing tens of thousands of seedlings annually from County and State lands here in Illinois and people keep planting them because they are available at every darn Home Depot and WalMart. Upscale nurseries even sell them and if you ask them if they're invasive... you should hear some of the replies. Bottom line is that a man sold me 12 Burning Bushes for my front yard a long time ago before we even moved in to this home claiming they would really make a statement in my front yard. That was before I began volunteering to remove exotic invasive species and didn't realize what a statement they would be making over here. Once my Burning Bushes started "breeding" with the Burning Bushes flanking the front doors of all my neighbors, I had baby Burning Bushes all over my woodlands within 4 years time. They are definitely an adaptable plant. I asked that landscaper to take them out and replace them because I had trusted him. He told me they were still legal to sell here. He knew.

In my recent letter to the Governor of my state I asked a very simple straight forward question... Please help me understand how it is that Indiana, Wisconsin, and Missouri (all states that surround Illinois) have the Euonymus alata plant listed as a noxious weed yet our Stae doesn't? The data is out there irrefutably establishing beyond a reasonable doubt that the plant, as well as its cultivars (including cultivars previously believed to have been sterile), repeatedly escapes cultivation and is wreaking havoc in natural areas that is degrading the land, outcometing native species which results in a loss of diversity, and costing tax payers tons of money to clean up. I think I also added that the introduction of all the cultivars might ultimately result in the creation of a super race of Euonymus alata that might ultimately prove to be resistent to chemicals and then where would we be when the whole countryside is aglow with white Bradford/Clevleand Select/Redspire Pear blooms in spring and brilliant Red Burning Bushes in fall. I haven't received a response yet. They know.

The fact that we keep planting these plants is not our fault when cultivars are released to the buying public at an unparalleled rate that is a force with which to contend. One lady told me that "this one REALLY is sterile this time". She was referring to yet another newly released cultivar. I think Dode was told the same thing about a Purple Loosestrife cultivar. Maddening for people who volunteer in natural areas trying to help.

I don't know if Euonymus alata or any of its cultivars are invasive in your area but I strongly suspect they might be.

Here's the problem right here-
http://www.boston.com/yourlife/home/articles/2005/09/22/ne_states_are_declaring_war_on_harmful_non_native_plants/
"Some species would still be sold up to three years after the deadline to allow nurseries holding stock to avoid economic loss."

So some east coast states are progressive enough to start banning the sale of some plants that are highly invasive. We all know that those offering these species for sale are just going to start peddaling them out west where there will be no way to respond in time to thwart off the millions of plants that will end up in our yards. Fire sale! Nurseries have known for decades that the plants listed were environmental nightmares yet we give them time to deplete their inventories? I feel for the nurseries but the argument has always been that of economic loss prohibiting many species from being formally identified for what they are. Call me a simpleton but I really have to question how it is that we can continue to condone what I deem to be double dipping by not providing appropriate consequences. These exotic invasive plants get sold... they get listed on a Hall of Shame list in some state... they then get sold in other states where the plant is not listed... they get placed on a Hall of Shame list in those states... nurseries aplogize feigning ignorance and ask for time to avoid economic loss... Green Industry marketing geers up to get the word out that a plant is invasive and that homeowners should consider destroying them... and they are right there to sell you a replacement plant that is better behaved and not a threat to our fragile ecosystems or the fauna dependent upon their existence for survival... and volunteers and tax payers get left with the physical clean up and the associated costs from sea to shining sea.

Here's one of the sites I go to for information-
http://tncweeds.ucdavis.edu/index.html

Time for me to get off my soapbox and hide behind it for a little bit.

I got my reply from the coalition guy:

Hi Melissa,
I got an answer for you:


They have not been a problem here but I have seen pretty bad infestations in NE. Because they get summer rain they get a different suite of invaders than we do. This one has been grown here for decades without issues.

Thanks for checking! We are working on a booklet of alternatives to some invasive garden plants in w WA. It will be available at the Flower and Garden Show and at nurseries this spring.



_____________________________
Seth Cool
Conservation Northwest / Washington Invasive Species Coalition

It appears that our dry summers protect us from this being invasive. I didn't think it was, because I never see them outside of cultivation and I see everything else that is a concern from homeowner's gardens if it does 'too' well here. Can't hurt to check and be safe, though.

I hear you about the nurseries! I wish the state would make selling English Ivy illegal!! In general, Washington is very progressive in terms of environmental protection, as is Oregon. I cringe when I see flats of ivy being sold as groundcover. The more responsible nurseries here don't sell it, or that 'brand' of holly either. But you can sure get it at Lowe's and Home Depot!!
We have a beautiful park very near our house that is about 1.5 square miles of open space with a lake and large, undeveloped fields. We also have some natural forest there. The ivy has so taken over that volunteers are going in and trying to eradicate it, or at least stop it from climbing up trees, where it will go to seed and then proceed to take over the world. Some of the trunks on the ivy are 8 inches in diameter. Try pulling that out sometime.

Don't apologize for your soapbox. It is evident that it is a subject dear to your heart. I don't mind checking to make sure something is okay to plant in my area.

English Ivy! That plant truly is evil and is still being sold here in flats too. I don't even want to talk about that plant in depth. It has been three long years now that I have been trying to remove that beast (doesn't appear on our noxious weed list here either) from my property and I am still finding it everywhere. Those things actually heaved my concrete sidewalks making a break for my front lawn. We had to have entire sections of sidewalk replaced and that sidewalk was only 4 years old. My English Ivy had a few vines about the size of my wrist. If I was dealing with vines that were 8", I think I'd slice my wrists. That stuff is really something else.

The problem with most of these exotic invasives is that many birds eat the seed and poop them out as they fly overhead. That's how they get into natural areas that are miles from the plant. Those plants mature and more birds eat the seeds and poop them out again furthering their reach into even more natural areas far off the beaten path. To top things off, the seeds are virtually encapsulated in the equivalent of Miracle Grow packs in that the bird poop is enveloping them when they hit the ground. I've found Burning Bushes 5 miles into woodlands and others who have worked even deeper in natural areas claim they are popping up everywhere. Now add to this that migrating birds stop for snacks when these plants are fruiting and it spells disaster.

I think what is getting me frantic is that I need to get my property under control before we get hit by Kudzu. You've heard of Kudzu... that plant that wasn't supposed to be able to survive this far north. Well, it's about 10 miles south of Chicago right now. I'm about 60 miles north of where it is by air.

Kudzu... coming to a theater near all of us some day soon-
http://www.jjanthony.com/kudzu/

You're right Pixie! I wish our State would make the sale of English Ivy illegal too. Doubt it will happen- economic loss. SCREAM (that's me screaming)

Kudzu! Poor you!! I have almost entirely eliminated ivy from my yard, however, I am surrounded by people who have allowed it to climb up their fir trees and go to seed, thereby creating the problem with birds that you describe. So I pull little ones out all the time. But when we moved onto this property it was totally covered with english ivy, and it traveled up all the fir trees. First thing I did was cut huge sections out of any of the plants that traveled up trunks so that they couldn't grow together. Then we got huge, thick pieces of cardboard with no coating on it, wet it, and put it over the entire back area, then put about 6 inches of fir bark on it and left it for a year. No ivy came through and the soil is just beautiful. In the front area I had someone come in and cut everything back, then mulched it heavily, but didn't use the cardboard. I'm still killing Himalayan blackberry and English ivy there, but the ivy is almost gone except for seeds that get dropped.
People in my area have sometimes 2 acres that is totally covered with the stuff. So scoot over you your soapbox!

Himalayan Blackberry is nothing but trouble. Lots of room behind my soapbox. Back to the Ivy, try taking a serrated knife and scraping off some of the outer bark. Do this about 2' from the base of the vine. Apply some of that G3 RTU with a sponge applicator and give it 10-14 days and see what happens.

Oh what a difference 10 days made in my ping a lings. Here are some updated photos. The first being P. agnata-

I think I'll try some P. 'Weser' next because I am happy with how P. 'Sethos' pups are doing-

Here's that lone P. moranensis leaf-

P. agnata 'True Blue' babies-

Here are the P. 'John Rizzi' babies. I must admit I really had problems pulling leaves off this plant so I am glad I have a few pups.

The only leaves that turned to mush out of all that I pulled were the two P. gigantea leaves that were "properly prepared". Those were toast in a very short time. Here is the one leaf that I placed on top of the medium by the parent plant that I photographed 10 days ago when no growth was evident-

Need to add something about the last photo. I grow my Mexican Pings very wet which is not status quo for most people who grow these plants. The medium is in fact very wet. My Mexican Pings get a western exposure in front of windows where I had glass replaced. I had Low E II glass in the two lower windows and swapped that for regular window glass last year. The glazer thought I was nuts but Low E II blocks out too much, great glass if you have a lot of artwork and textiles that one might want to reduce the damaging effects the sun will have on them over time but not so great for most plants other than some orchids it seems. I left the screens up to reduce some of the sunlight. Best guess is the screens are reducing the natural light by about 20-30%. In addition to the sun streaming in through the windows, those plants are receiving 16 hours of full spectrum 6500k light directed at them. I have no idea what the humidity is in that room where the Pings are growing but I suspect it isn't much more than 30-35%. Although I had a small fan trained on the leaves I pulled, I do not have a fan trained on the parent plants.

Wow what a ping propagation system you have developed. You are going to have more pings then you know what to do with. Ping propagation has been one of those things for me that is sort of a head scratcher. I will pull a few leaves off one ping and all will bud with many plantlets per leaf. Then I will do the same exact thing for a different ping and nothing. Who knows, glad you have success

Um, I didn't develop that system. It's discussed in Peter D'Amato's book "The Savage Garden". I did tweek it a little bit based on what I had on hand to start them in as well as available space and lighting.

I've got more ping leaves pulled right now. Every little ping a ling photographed above has a new home other than if there is anything you want or need out of the lot. I know you already have a 'John Rizzi' but I don't recall what else you have. If you want something, let me know.

I still pass pretty much everything on that I start to the schools which gets me back down to 1 or 2 Pings per species. I wish I had a greenhouse like Phil's that was for all practical purposes the size of an NFL football field but I don't so I need to keep my numbers down. Sarrs are my downfall but they can grow outside year round. Some of those I have planted in 3's. I just love a pot that has 3 tall pitchers in it. So pretty.

I gave several hundred seedlings away last year keeping all of maybe 30 or so for myself. This year I plan on keeping at least 3 of every Sarr I germinate other than what ever germinates from the pack Phil sent me in a white topped Leuco- those I am keeping every last one of as I know exactly where I want them to go outside if I enjoy success. If every seed germinates from that pack, I'm keeping every last plant. I've got a 150 gallon stock tank to stick in the ground for those and I know exactly where I want it to go. Happy happy happy! That's what I will be if I get 100% germination rate out of his seeds.

Thanks for the offer Lauren, I belive that I currently grow all the pings that you have budded. Yes I sure hope the greenhouse plans work out for me this spring. My sarr collection is getting large and with the wind here I just cant put them out unprotected for the pitchers get snapped off. I was planning on making it a dual greenhouse making half of it made for neps and the other for sarrs, by dividing it and heating both halfs differently. Who knows sounds good though.

Wolf

Oh my! Sounds as if your greenhouse footprint is bigger than it was last year. This is good news. From everything I hear everyone claims one should get the biggest one they can afford. Are you doubling from you original plans?

In our zone you'd have to run utilities out to a greenhouse set up for Neps. I shudder to think what the utility bills would be on that. Scary prospect.

I have a totally serious question for you. How much would it cost to add windows to your garage so you could stash all the pretties there for the winter? The temps in the garage should be considerably higher than those of the outer air temps. I can't imagine a double hung window costing more than $100 and I've watched people hang windows before and if it is a frame garage as opposed to a brick garage I bet you are handy enough you could install a window. You could stack your Sarrs up in front of the windows like I do. That might give you more space in the greenhouse. Just a thought.

Yeah putting a window it would be great for storing the sarrs for the winter. The only place I could put it would be on the west end of the garage but that should be sufficeint. It would be a great place for them for the winter. But if I am able to afford the GH it wont be neccessary. Yes the plans are a little bit larger, I have found that if building myself it is not much more expensive to make it larger. By far the largest expense is the covering, and to not spend a fortune heating it in the winter it will have to be the double-walled polycarbonate which is quite expensive. I need to start buying lottery tickets!

Maybe start buying materials now bit by bit for the greenhouse? I don't know. My greenhouse plans got nailed because we have an HO association that disallows poly because it yellows over time- oh horrors. I will probably be waiting quite a few years before I can afford one out of glass.

A western exposure in a garage would be fine. Those triple windows are on the east side of the garage but the other side of the garage has plants too and that's a western exposure and so far so good.

Do you by any chance have a free serve you could join where you live? You might be able to pick up some of your building supplies that way for just the cost of gas to go and pick it up. Talk to Dode about how to join. She'll know.

Aren't your little pings fleshing out nicely! Nice work! They are looking nice and plump! I have pulled three leaves off of my P. 'Weser' to see if I can make more. There is no good reason for this, I just wanted to do it.
Wolf, I am glad to hear your greenhouse plans are expanding. You will not be sorry! I have already outgrown mine in only 2 years, but I must make do. If only I had not begun to get addic.... I mean 'very interested' in CPs and in Cacti and Succulents, as well as tropical pond plants, I would have more room. As it is, I am having to shoehorn myself in when I need to get in there and do some work.

Lauren, I strongly dislike your HO. No fair at all!.

Personally, I won't take a chance on Burning Bush..."sterile" or not. The only thing burning bush has going for it is brilliant fall colour. It's blooms are inconsequential and not attractive, IMO.

However.....

Fothergilla has beautiful, honey scented blossoms in spring, and brilliant fall colour. And it's native to the US. And it's not aggressive or invasive. Dode.

I do have some fothergilla planted and I do think it's lovely. I like the fall foliage of the dwarf burning bush and that is why I planted it. I can understand not wanting to chance it in your area, but clearly it is not invasive here due to our differing climates.

You like Fothergilla? Cool! I love those plants. You might want to check these plants out and see if there is anything that interests you if you like the splashy Fothergilla-
Redvein ekianthus (Ekianthus campanulatus)
Cranberry Bush (Viburnum trilobum)
Red Chokecherry (Aronia arbutifolia)

I still think your BEST bet for the front of your house and in consideration of your uppity neighbors and all is to create a few bogs and put up a very visible sign that states, "Caution, Plants Bite".

Wolf man, may I make a suggestion for your greenhouse plans. If you are serious about growing excellent plants more than you are about the esthetic look of a pre-fab aluminum and polycarb greenhouse then you must build from scratch or devise a way to retrofit a pre-fab. Here is why:

Although double, even triple wall polycarbonate greenhouses are energy effiecient, they are not that good in zones where you live if you are trying to save in heating expenses. Even if you were to put up a house that was 12 x 16 you could expect to pay a TON of money to heat it during the winter, and even MORE so if you partitioned it in half because smaller spaces require more energy to maintain even temps.

I came up with a design that a few of my friends are using. Basically the house was built out of redwood 2x4's. The design can be as creative as you like. The most important factor wa the covering. There were 2 hard shell coverings; 6 to 8 mil double wall polycarbonate on the outside and a 4-6 mil flat sheet greenhouse fiberglass panel on the inside. The idea here was to trap the air space between the 4 inch gap the lumber provided. Using this method you can expect upwards of 70% or greater in energy savings, especially if you only heat the space to 55 or 60 degrees F.

I know that the structure should be as pleasant on the eyes as it is in efficiency, but there are many decorative products available for artistically outfitting the exterior of the house; finials, crestings, etc. So building a homemade structure can be a creation only limited to your imagination. Although the initial cost for a double covering may be high, you would be saving a whole lot more in the long term by not having to run your heating system so often.

Just some food for thought.

I believe I already have several chokecherry shrubs. I'm not certain, as I've been trying to ID these and they are not native here. But the leaves look like and grow in the pattern of cherry leaves. Here is a photo taken today of the berries in winter. Plus, you can see some of my tall Douglass fir trees behind them, and on the trunk of the trees the dried ivy vines.