" green wizard" coneflower

My tag for my green wizard coneflower says rudbeckia fulgida. The shape of its flower is not like the ones already entered in that file - rudbeckia occidentalis, it is more like the ones for sale on top of the page. Is there a difference?
Al

Al do you mean yours is more like the Rudbeckia occidentais "Green Wizard" Annies Annuals offer (which is the only vendor I could see on that page)? Or have I got it wrong somewhere.

In Rudbeckia there is only one species that has a cultivar called 'Green Wizard' and that is R. occidentalis. How different is yours and do you have a picture please?

Baa,
Yes mine looks like annie's with rounder/flatter seed heads. The photos of the ones in the plant files seem to have longer mexican hat looking seed heads. I didn't think that there was more than one kind either. I just looked in one my catalogs and they had rudbeckia occidentalis "black beauty" that has long and short seed heads. So I guess there isn't 2 kinds and they named it wrong(Northern Selections).

Ahh 'Black Beauty' is a patented name so it could be another cultivar or a renamed selection of 'Green Wizard', unfortuately the patent information doesn't say.

Misnamed plants are common place in nurseries and garden centres, they can be excellent growers but nomenclature is not always a strong point and to be honest I can understand why :-D

Is that a pre PPAF deal. It seems like every plant is PPAF nowadays. I have some plants with serial numbers in case someone steals them out of my garden I can report them to the police!

LOL!

The PPAF stands for Plant Patent Applied For but Rudbeckia occidentalis 'Black Beauty' has a patent in both the US and EU.

I know. I do not know the legal ramifications of the patents though. They probably don't want you commenting on plant breeders(DG) , I have had shaky results with Plantspotters - can you comment on them?

FYI, I moved this thread to the Perennials forum since it was veering away from a strictly PlantFiles question ;o)

I ran across info about a year ago that said that the length of the cone in this plant had more to do with growing conditions than whether the cultivar or the species was grown. That might account for the difference in the lengths in the pictures.

P,
Thanks for the info. I only see mine around to compare it to.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://arboretum.sfasu.edu/plants/heattolerantperennials/rudbeckiafulgida/Rudbeckia%2520fulgida%2520%27Goldstrum%271.jpg&imgrefurl=http://arboretum.sfasu.edu/plants/heattolerantperennials/rudbeckiafulgida/default.htm&h=246&w=328&sz=33&tbnid=HMOVHybsVnsJ:&tbnh=85&tbnw=114&hl=en&start=1&prev=/images%3Fq%3Drudbeckia%2Bfulgida%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG



http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.anniesannuals.com/signs/p%2520-%2520r/images/rudbeckia_occidentalis_gw.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.anniesannuals.com/signs/p%2520-%2520r/rudbeckia_occidentalis_gw.htm&h=232&w=171&sz=8&tbnid=0k7o0dZ56GIJ:&tbnh=103&tbnw=75&hl=en&start=3&prev=/images%3Fq%3Drudbeckia%2Bgreen%2Bwizard%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D

Green wizard

The two are completely different flowers. Green wizard doesn't have any petals at all The green sepals act as petals kind of when it opens. It's quite a unique plant. I was up in missouri last year and bought 6 or 7 of them, I hope they come back this year, and bloom as they didn't bloom last year , they were young seedlings then. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they didn't get crowded out, or pulled up by accident by the weed pullers around here.

Heres one called green wizard, but looks different from the second link, http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.alchemy-works.com/Resources/green_wizard.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.alchemy-works.com/rudbeckia_occidentalis.html&h=274&w=216&sz=7&tbnid=oheB1brjgeEJ:&tbnh=109&tbnw=85&hl=en&start=4&prev=/images%3Fq%3Drudbeckia%2Bgreen%2Bwizard%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D


Black beauty looks exactly like green wizard, I've heard green wizard for sevreal years, but never heard of black beauty, wonder which one came first. cause the two flowers are identical
http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&q=rudbeckia+black+beauty

Kathy,
Your 2 links aren't working for me. Personally I have seen Green Wizard for sale locally for 3 or more years. Black Beauty until last year I only saw for sale in VB's catalog.
Off topic how has your prairie frost coneflower been, I am debating between getting that one and sparkler.

Al

I see that now LOL, i'll go back and see if I can get them to work again

sorry about that.

I haven't watched that one closely, seems like I lost one of them, I think I lost the sparkler coneflower, and seems like the prairie frost did well. I bought the meadowbright, but they sent me the mango instead, LOL, I haven't bought any for quite a while now, things were getting so packed that I was loosing alot of plants, so I had to quit buying LOL

ok, going to look for those links again


kathy

http://images.google.com/images?q=rudbeckia+green+wizard&hl=en&btnG=Search+Images


http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&q=rudbeckia++black+beauty

I did a google search, and the green wizard, looks exactly like the black beauty.

kathy

I know what you mean by killing plants by overcrowding them, it really is a gardner's no no - I've done it.
Anyway I guess we've beat it into the ground the Black Beauty and Green Wizard are the same plant. Not real common though so they stand out - I guess.
I have close to 25 kinds of coneflower so I have to play the guessing game whether a variety will be available locally or buy it from mailorder. The market is so flooded I can't imagine all of them for sale.

Well, your doing great Al, I've only got about 6 or 7 varieties, and have no idea what new kinds they have out there now. But I think their all beautiful. wish the seeds they drop would produce the same kinds of plants as themother LOL

kathy

Kathy,
I have that topic in my other thread in perennials. I lot of them do, some I don't know about. I still have some seeds left of others. There is certainly a competition between Big Sky and Terra Nova for the market - which is growing.
Next year I am rearranging and expanding my coneflower bed to show them off better.
Al

Well, they sure are healthy looking for sure.


kathy

Al--they look great! I'd be "scared" to change that bed!

It's going to be bigger and better, everything does great on my east side!
Next year I'll have pictures of every single plant of mine so beware.
Al