Ethnobotanicals, Entheogens, Herbs of History

Hiya,

I'm in the process of planning a garden for next spring to include selected plants of historical and cultural significance. I've compiled a pretty neat collection in the last two years, but it has lived in pots until a space came available on our property i.e: Space my wife didn't want for more roses...lol.

I'm looking for other growers of healing plants or plants of mythology that are willing to share their expertise with me in this regard. I've collected plants used by the Maya, Inca, Aztecs, Ayurvedics, Chinese, Europeans, and Indigenous Americans and am interested in hearing any tips for open ground culture.

Any input would be considered valuable.

best to all,
don

You must be growing Datura or Brugmansia, then! THAT'S an interesting plant. Or how 'bout Aztec sweet herb.
Richters is an excellent resource for plants and seeds of this variety. Rare and hard to find! I want to try their Chaparral, eucalyptus, rampion (from which the tale of Rapunzel is said to have originated), soapwort and stevia

What types of plants have you collected in regard to mythology? That would be a very interesting garden.

Drdon

I have an interest in some, I'd also like to know more about what you are collecting.

I'm interested in hearing what plants you've collected, Don. Sounds to me like you'll have a very diverse healing garden already!! (Love it!)

By the way (off topic)...did you collect some seeds of Rose Periwinkle? Friend of mine here is putting together a "cancer" garden. (Or perhaps I should say "anti-cancer"garden.)

hiya Horseshoe,

The Catharanthus are just now putting on seed and I haven't forgotten the offer of seed. I'll let you know when pods begin ripening so I can send off as much as is useful.

best,
don

hiya Baa,

nice to meet you,

Right now I'm collecting a rather diverse selection.

I've obtained several plants used in topical pain relief such as Arnica and some of the mainstream plants like marshmallow, Russian licorice, black cohosh, blessed thistle and others. As far as entheogens go, I once had a brief professional relationship with the legendary Albert Hoffmann and have collected many vascular plants used in ritual or shamanic ceremonies in Latin America and Mexico. So far I'm growing an abundance of rather spectacular plants of historical significance regarding the Mayan civilization as well as the Huichol indigenous tribes of Mexico.

A few years back I was grateful to be afforded an opportunity to see some of a private collection at the RBG at Kew that had recently been donated and were being accessioned. As a U.N. representative, with some background in ethnopharmacology I was asked to peruse the collection and.....wow! I had no idea that there were collectors out there that were so involved in this rather obscure horticultural endeavor that is often marginalized by silly "explorers" of the next fad in Timothy Leary sycophantery...lol.

I'd be interested in knowing what kinds of plants you are interested in and would also be interested in what types of books you are reading on topics of ethnobotany.

best,
don

Dear Dr Don,
I've been living in a Basque village for 15 years and many plants are still grown and used medicinally here. I've been learning what I can. Would you be interested in a list of what is used, (I've been compiling one with names in Basque, Spanish, Latin and English), and for what? I might be able to get some seeds too if there were any you wanted. LMK.
Maggi xxxx
PS. Has my box for the bulbs arrived yet?

hiya sorgina,

Yes your box goes out in Monday's post. It was a real treat to open and find the seeds you sent. Thank you! I'm very interested in your list of medicinals and have a great interest in almost anything done by the oft forgotten Basque people. Their music, their geography, and their customs/diet/traditional medicine are all fascinating. I'd be jazzed to get a look at your list. I'm especially interested in their traditional uses for plants in the family Lamiaceae.

I'm sending you some other goodies along with your Zephyranthes.

muchisimas gracias,
un abrazo

btw. My wife would like to know if you went to British school? She attended in Mexico City.

Drdon

Interesting stuff! We know very little of Mexico and ancient cultures of the Americas over here so I'd be interested to see the plants and hear more. I've not been to Kew myself, I've heard it's excellent, how lucky you managed to wangle a peek at a private collection there!

How is the Liquorice (assuming it's G. glabra) used as a topical pain reliever? Here it's a confection sometimes used to 'aid digestion' as it's nicely put.

As for my interests in the area, they are mainly European wild species which means access to information is easy, after all Culpeper and Grieves are widely read texts. I pick bits and pieces up here there and everywhere too as well as listening to the old wives tales. I have an interest in some medicial applications, veterinary included, although it seems, excuse the pun, what was sauce for the goose was sauce for the gander too. I don't use them as such but grow them in honour of their service.

We house a number of native species, one of my other interests is plant folklore so I grow things like Devils Bit Scabious partly for the scent or sight, partly for the wild life use and partly because of the tale behind the common name. Considering we have one (native) poisonous snake on these isles, the poor things are very shy too, there are an enormous amount of plants that are said to cure/prevent snake bites LOL Ritually speaking, important plants in Great Britain are trees, trees and trees, it's funny but it's filtered into out culture today, cutting down a tree is liable to cause a local public outcry.

I keep getting side tracked by other plants, this usually turns into a search for, what is it useful for in it's native land so I suppose it all comes full circle in the end.

hiya Baa,

licorice is used internally for "digestion" in our folklore as well so it probably isn't ours, as so few things actually are from history. Native peoples brought it over the land bridge apparently and it was cultivated by them or their shaman to reduce internal cramps that happened around full moons as well as to boost hormonal balances (I don't think the word hormone translates...lol). We use it here for several reasons. Topically it contains a few phenolic compounds that assist in healing wounds. We make plasters with it and wrap wounds on our horses legs when they've done whatever horses do to cut themselves (the causes are indeed numerous, or we just have clutzy horses..lol). I also use it as a flavoring in some cooking.

As far as Mexican/Latin medicinals/entheogens go, I've collected some interesting convolvulaceae used widely by the Mayans and a particular species of Sage that is still used in a ceremonial capacity by the Huichol indians. There are also some interesting plants that I've been able to collect that are used in Ayurvedic (Indian) medicine. Send me a d mail and a discussion may be had about sending you some seeds. I'm currently reading an excellent text on the Mayo/Yaqui ethnobotany that contains fascinating information on their use of several Fabaceae as part of their diet to prevent disease.

As far as traditional medicine in Great Britain, I've always been enamoured of the use of grasses and bryophytes/filices in so many remedies. I also had no idea how many different mosses and lichens actually grow there. There are some rather valid theories on how some of these simple plants are capable of containing such complex compounds. The different rocks inhabited by these plants seem to be used as a mineral source for some pretty fantastic alchemy performed by them. It turns out that all that green stuff has more usefulness than enticing photography...lol.

Well, as I recall Capability Brown was big on trees. That alone is reason enough to keep them. One can never tell if the doggone Beech in the way of that new driveway or car park was planted by the man himself a few hundred years ago. That and the fact that they are efficient users of the nitrogen oxides and carbon compounds falling from the sky attached to rain drops....lol. Currently in our fine land trees are blamed for forest fires.....and they are often blamed for jumping out in front of the family FUV while taking little Billy to mergers and aquisitions practice....go figure...lol.

best,
don

Great and fascinating thread! Well put drdon in that last post LOL.

I've been getting interested in Appalachian medicinals. The land I'm living on is well wooded and has a rich variety of plant life, so when I'm not so obsessed with the gardens (yeah, right!) I need to go hiking with a field guide. Do your interests extend to medicinals native to this area? Many of the of the common weeds like yellow dock, burdock, chickweed, and plantain are listed as medicinals. I know a country herbalist who treated his arthritis with tea made from the roots of Joe Pye Weed (Eupatorium purpureum). Lobelia inflata is also plentiful here. If interested in these or others from this region let me know. Neal.

Dear Dr Don,
I'm looking forward to receiving my box. Please bear with me over the list of plants as I have to get it together(its a lot of scribbled notes on several scraps of paper at the moment....) and the next few days are very busy ones, so please forgive me if I don't post it till next week. I also want to get more info and confirm the data from the resident "expert". He is, however, as mad as a hatter and as stubborn as only a Basque can be, and refuses to communicate in or understand any Spanish (the language of the hated invaders....). To my shame, my Basque is still quite rudimentary, so our conversations are painfully hilarious! Latin plant names are allowed, so we use a combination of these, sign language, Basque "a lo indio" and lots of frantic searching through and pointing at a field guide in English I supplied him with! I tried taking my Basque husband along as interpreter,(botanically illiterate but fluent in Basque), but this was regarded as cheating and therefore not allowed! Research in the field is never straightforward, is it?
BTW, I am English. I came here 18 years ago to teach English and learn Spanish for a year or two before getting a"proper job", and the rest, as they say, is history. (Something to do with aforementioned Basque husband LOL). I do, however, have a Mexican dentist, who went to the British school in Mexico city! Her name is Pilar Herbella Martín and I guess she's in her late forties...
Is your wife from Mexico city? BTW, Pilar hated the school and refused to learn any English while she was there! (She has some Basque blood, that must explain it...)I do hope this wasn't your wife's experience! It's very useful for me though - I'm giving her English lessons in exchange for dental treatment.LOL.
Well, must go for now. Will get back with detailed info. asap.
Maggi xxxx

hiya sorgina,

No problem on the waiting. We're horse ranchers here and the horses rarely allow us to do anything on time, or late for that matter.

Pamela is of Dutch/Irish heritage who's grandparents escaped Europe in the years preceding the Blitz. She attended British schools and her English skills are better than most. One of her dearest school chums is living in GB and labours for the BBC Mundo.

I am an Irish Jew that worked for the U.N. for a couple of decades that speaks Arabic and Urdu...go figure..lol. My profession was as a biologist, my wife is a retired clinical psychologist. We both study ethnobotany to some extent. Our horses, doggies and our own lives have been enriched by this growing knowledge.

The holidays can be rather multilingual with German, Dutch, Spanish, English being spoken all at the same time. It's a lot like a very busy cafe.....lol.

un abraza,
don

Wow, that's quite a heritage you have there, you two! Our house is a bit like a busy cafe most of the time! My husband and I communicate in Spanish or English. The children and I in English. The children with their father in Basque.The children in the street and at school in Basque and Spanish. As we live very near the French border and have some French friends, that gets thrown in a bit too...On a good day it's very enriching. Better not mention the bad days...lol.
What was your field in the UN? If you managed to learn Arabic and Urdu I feel even more ashamed of my lack of progress in Basque! Do you speak Hebrew also?
Maggi xxxx

Hiya Sorgina,

Hebrew.....a little...lol. Just enough to get by the Barmitzvah...lol. I was a biologist studying environmental conditions and the diseases related to them. It is a simplistic definition, yet sufficient in this context. Your geographic location is one of the most beautiful parts of Europe as far as I'm concerned. I've always loved the Pyrenees and their sister mountains in Morocco. The plant life there is so incredible and the inspiration for much of the plants in Dr. Seuss books. At one time the Dragon's Blood- Dracaena draco sap was prized more than gold by those meaning to ward off dragons apparently.

hi Don,
just jumped onto this thread of yours, I was more than a little curious in your interest in ethnobotanicals. really intriguing stuff. I have some interest myself, and have found over the years that a problem is more likely to be cured by using natural remedies. After all, an animal has an instict on which plants to chew if it is ill, and I believe man had or in some cases still has the knowledge of self healing. After all, we must remember that although the medical professional is at times necessary, it is also perhaps a little biased as to prescribed treatment versus nature. A medical doctor having been trained will naturally have pride in his acquired knowledge, and to even suggest that anything else could be of more help is a slur on his professional pride. Rather like telling a dentist you need a filling, the response is more often that they will tell you when and if you need a filling.
My daughter, when a very young baby, started to get her 1st teeth at only 10 weeks, but the skin grew back over and it wasn't until she was 5 months old and had 8 teeth that her problems stopped. The problem being as my doctor told me was teething causes an acid to go to the stomach, upsetting the digestive system. And what an upset it was, she couldn't hold down any milk, I had to put her on glucodine and even if given an ounce of milk she was sick. The medicine she was prescribed worked initially, but as we are told normally a course should be finished in order to work properly. At the end of 2 weeks she returned to the sickness, and on a return visit to the doctor I saw a relief doctor, who told me that this medicine was fairly new, and if taken more than 10 days it caused the condition to return. I was waking her up at night to ensure she had sufficient fluids, at 6 weeks she was sleeping a full 12 hours, as dehydration was my concern. It caused a foul smell which I will never forget, and each time as she grew up and got more teeth she had the same digestive problem. I asked at a local health food shop, and was advised to try a pure pepperment oil in a concentrated form of small tablets. It worked like magic, aids the enzymes in the stomach, but I think has to be the right type of peppermint. It was a famous Swiss herbalist remedy, Dr Vogel, and I bought his book, The Nature Doctor which I found very interesting. I should think you have heard of him, I still have the book, that was in the 1970's.
Now, please can somebody tell me, why in the interest of people's health could a doctor not have made a suggestion? I don't believe they have no knowledge of the simple remedies, so it looks to me like anything else, they are controlled by big business and their interests are more important to them than that of the patients. I have through my life tried to steer clear of anything unnatural, and in general it has kept me in good stead.

There is a big BUT here, as some years ago I was hit in a double head on collision, not my fault. I had shoulder and neck injury, but continued to struggle on with work. Nearly a year later I had nerve inflammation in my right hand, within a few months it travelled to my leg, and occasionally to the other side. This caused a lot of pain and no doctor was willing to put their reputation on the line and tell me what it was, as there was little documented evidence, although most knew of the effects. I was told by a physiotherapist when referred 3 years later that this happens typically at that stage, and he explained the nerve sheaths become inflamed thru healing scars. Unfortunately nothing could be done. I started to get very sensitive nerves on my head, had sinus inflammation and eyelid drooping in bright light. I saw a doctor trained in medicine, psychology and neurology. His suggestion, after going thru my history, and hearing of the symptons, was Right Horners Syndrome. or damage to the right cervical sympathetic nerves. I did my own research and found these nerves controlled blood flow, and a sympathetic and parasympathetic nerve worked together to control autonomous reactions, i.e. breathing, heart beat, the things we don't conciously control, but worked inconjuction with the other nerves that we do control. For the last 5 years I have had 'lumps' on my head. My doctor didn't know how to treat it, and I refused to go back to someone who didn't know, so had a bad time. I only went after 3 years when it became much worse, hard lumps which built up water around, saw doctor 2 years ago. I was then, 6 months from 1st visit, sent to see a specialist (would have been nice 1st time!), given creams and antihistamine. Creams worked to a point, I ended up on a Betnovate cream which really only helped the eczema effect, and being a steriod i wasn't too keen. On a visit to renew prescription my doctor had a look at what the specialists had called it. It was given a name nodular prurigo. I researched this and found it not to be quite the standard form, as mine was to do with nerve injury and sensitivity, also being bitten by insects while gardening on warm dull evenings, the gnats like me. 20% of suffers start after being bitten by insects, allergy suffers are also more likely to be affected. My allergy was to eggs, but when I had my own chickens which weren't fed on layers pellets with added ingredients poss. antibiotics, I had little trouble with eggs.
Sun always nearly cleared up the condition, ulra-violet rays were said to be helpful, but didn't want the artificial form. I read that capsaicin was effective, and having grown some mild chili peppers i thought capsicum would be the equivalent. And, you guessed it, I cut them open, rub them on my swollen glands and it works. the active ingredient is in the membrane inside the skin. I still get some watering but can keep the glands under control without the discomfort. Capsaicin is also effective against insect bites, they bite a little then stop, the bites are soothed nearly instantly, of course I already have it on my head. Get a little more watering but it is amazing. Also effective for eczema. I had a couple of hives near my ankle and swelling around the ankle, on goes the chili pepper and presto.

At first if you touch your tongue or sensitive areas with chili on the fingers it will burn, but after a few days it goes through the system and you become desensitised, it doesn't burn. If you miss a day or two sensitivity to it returns. It does not burn the affected areas. It also had the effect of clearing my sinuses within 10 mins. of applying to my head, which would aid in blood flow etc.

A couple to add to your list of treatments?
Glad to have found this
janet

Don, the link to capsaicin

http://www.fiery-foods.com/dave/capsaicin.asp

another link

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1440-0960.2005.00187.x?cookieSet=1

I love the second link.......talk dirty to me...lol. I love five to seven syllable words that just lights my fire...lol.

Thanks wallaby1, those are very informative, especially the topical use of capsaicin. Yet I've not encountered the prurigo nodularis disease in any of our horses, our dogs, my wife, our staff, or...now wait a sec...I'm not so sure about me....lol.

best to you,
don

kind of an interesting ethnobotanical just started blooming here today. It is Turbina corymbosa, and it is intertwined (no pun intended) in the ancient and modern meso american cultures.

hiya dr don,

Still up with the owls, i have looked for this, found a purple form, is this unusual?

http://leda.lycaeum.org/?ID=265

they says it's a mysterious plant.........could do with a bit of that.........

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=24715

hiya wallaby1,

It certainly is a rather mysterious plant. Pam and I are headed back to the Yucatan this holiday season to get away from the U.S. shopping craziness so we can get some peace and explore a few new ruins for us at Uxmal and the surrounding areas.

MesoAmerican Indian herbal lore is one of our horticultural hobbies, and this plant is a real treat to have.

If you'd like to learn more about its significance in Aztec and Mayan lore Google the name Xochipilli and there is a bunch of really great stone carvings of the diety showing the idealized plant or flower.

best,
don

I envy you, it is so busy around here now, a lot of houses built around Lincoln, a new Uni went up, started in 1996, and it's the fastest growing city in the country. Any paddock in any gap or village edge even is being flooded with houses, and they build them big and close together with postage stamp gardens. Many people from London and the south take advantage of the lower prices here, and have pushed them up 3 fold in the last few years. I don't go anywhere unless forced now, it would be great to visit these faraway places, I did start touring Europe, drove to Rome, it was the beautiful countryside that I enjoyed. Of course Rome is an amazing place too. this country is obsessed with shopping, would love to escaped from it all and live life at a slower pace. The accident put paid to a lot of my ambitions, but I have explored the positive side of things, and have made gardening an art, I focus on what I can do, not what I can't. Could do with some warmth, would make a big difference to me.

Thanks for the hint on search, will give me something else to explore,

best to you too
Janet

hiya wallaby1,

It will be nice to get away from all of the habitual consumerism that has overcome this country's traditional fiscal conservation. What is now the activity of the day is full-contact shopping. It is not important any longer to cherish nature or to find joy in a sunset. It's better to brag about how realistic a sunset looks on one's new LCD television...lol.

So Pam and I make pilgrimages to ancient cities in Latin America as often as possible to slow down, get some perspective, and otherwise escape the urban sprawl that is even now making it's way out here to the boonies and is threatening the serenity and quiet of our horse ranch with McMansioners looking for a place to nurture their plasticine lifestyles. I'm not a fan of the antibacterial soap(er) set and think of the whole lot as a reason to eventually find our way to a true retirement as expatriates where our peace of mind is not disturbed by people that consider kitsch high minded. Oooh, I'm ranting, sorry.

best to you and your gardens,
don

drdon, you have a great way with words! You and hortensia are both such word wizzards (as a gemini, I so appreciate that). And please do rant; I certainly enjoy it. I think it's wonderful how you and your wife explore and seek perspective.
Neal

hiya gemini_sage,

My wife is also a Gemini....lol.

nice to meet you!

best,
don

No wonder you use your words so well here. If your wife's anything like me, it's probably hard for you to get a word in at home! LOL Good to meet you to, and I so enjoy your posts.
Neal.

lol,
why do you think I come to DG....;-))

Nice to stumble across this thread. I'm very interested in the relationship between plants and myth, especially how plants are used in witchcraft. My particular favorites are belladonna, henbane, and mandrake. I've been working on growing mandrake for several years now, trying to come up with the best way(s) to germinate and grow (outside of using GA3). I've got a tray of 36 seed babies going right now, trying to get a huge jump on the climate here (upstate NY). If you're putting together a garden of entheogens, consider some Nicotianas. There are so many that have been important in various cultures, and they often smell really wonderful as well.

I to am interested in herbs used by various cultures for their magical properties. I find the evolution of these ideas fascinating as well. The Appalachian culture that developed from Irish and Scottish imigrants blended with Cherokee and Blackfoot heritage is so rich and varied. This, of course, makes me want to install gardens of native American ritual herbs, Appalachian healing herbs, and magical herbs of ancient European, pagan faiths. So many plants, so little time!
Neal.

good morning!,

Currently I'm focusing on the medicinals used by meso american and south american peoples. Probably because in these areas there are still practitioners of the traditional medicine of the Maya, Mazatec, Huichol, Yaqui, Mayo, and Aztec traditions. I've collected a few Chinese traditional medicinal plants and the traditional medicine of the caucasian tribes will certainly require some graduate level study, in that it is so often intertwined with what was ignorantly regarded as witchcraft, when it should have been regarded simply as apothecary.

The burning of witches here in this country and in puritanical England is a low point in the history of caucasian medicine. The traditions that were lost because of the religious stupidity of the time. It is wonderful that you are working to reclaim some of those medicines in that they were most certainly the reasons there weren't and historical references to plagues or pandemics in the time when those traditional medicines were used without the interference from some grand inquisitor looking for blasphemy in a bowel movement...lol.

Please let me know how your mandrake proceed, and I'll take your advice of nicotiana, Currently I'm growing several sacred Brugmansias and only a few nicotiana that have recorded use.

best to you,
don

pic of the Mayan city of Edzna in Campeche, Mexico

drdon, I want to stow away in your suitcase!

Is mandrake the same as or related to may apple? Some fragmented memory is popping in my head about that LOL.
Neal

hiya g_s,

lol@ stowaway. This december during the shopping madness Pam and I are headed for the Mayan city of Uxmal to get some perspective.

I know that both plants are called Mandrake, yet they do not appear to be the same plant.

Mandrake (European)

Family: Solanaceae
Genus: Atropa (formerly Mandragora)
Specie: mandragora (formerly officinalis)

Mayapple (Mandrake)

Family: Berberidaceae
Genus: Podophyllum
Specie: peltatum

As their familial origin is way different Atropa mandragora would appear to be the real or traditional apothecary's Mandrake since they used it for the Atropine mainly from my limited knowledge of the plant.

I'll show pics of Uxmal and some of the other sights of the Yucatan when we return.

best,
don

The main pyramid at Edzna, is known as the House of the Five Floors.

This is a fascinating thread. Although I have no desire to grow the subject plants, their application and history are intriguing, especially in the Meso-American area. Avoiding "shopping madness" in Uxmal sounds like a winner. Looking forward to lots of pictures.
Re: Mandrake propagation, according to the botany teacher in a Harry Potter movie the Mandrake makes a terrible noise when repotted. LOL

This is blessed thistle blooming. It is a traditional medicine used in digestive issues. Here's a little data on it.



http://www.friedli.com/herbs/blessed1.html

you're not blowing off there again are you drdon?.........couldn't resist the pun....sorry

lol, I'm lost....

That happens a lot when I walk into a room these days and wonder "why am I in here anyway?"...lol. More Gotu Kola or Gingko biloba could help....maybe.

best,
don

lost?.....the normally eloquent drdon?.........have you seen the second mention on the 'Indication' of your link?

Gotu Kola? not heard of it. New brand of Cocoa Cola?

always the best

janet

Hey Neal! & paracelsus, I had to do a weed collection for my turf class this semester. While researching latin names, was very surprised to learn of some of their medicinal properties, as used by natives in this country. It's true what they say, a weed is simply a plant out of place! Also stumbled upon some others used in witchcraft, which I concur with Don, have more of an apothecary than satanical nature. Fascinating stuff, I'm very interested in the folklore of plants, a rich heritage that sadly, is becoming lost
Balvenie - LOL.