Globe Thistle: which are the seeds?

I just moved into a new house with a lot of neat plants. I thought it would be fun to collect some seeds and give them away. However, I don't know which is the seed from the Globe Thistle. It sheds twice: first the flowers fall off, then the spikes fall off. Which do I save?

Thanks,
Dana

Okay, I got a visual. Here's the first "flower" layer:

Here are the "spikes". I'm guessing now it's the spikes, but I saved the flowers before I knew the spikes came off. :)

This message was edited Aug 23, 2005 3:21 PM

Good question! I have never harvested the seeds, just let them self-seed in my bed. I did a little Googling and found a thread at gardenweb which answers this question (I hope):

Hmm, so I guess that means it's inside the spike?? I looked again at both parts and I couldn't tell what she means. I'm confused! I did e-mail the author of the quote you found, but if anyone else knows, I'm dying to solve this mystery! Thanks for the tip, gardenwife! :)

--Dana

Well, I got a reply from the post-er of that message. She said they're a quarter-inch rod inside the spear. But when I opened a spear, I'm not sure that I found the seed.

Does anyone know if I'm supposed to separate this seed from the spear, or does one plant the whole "spear"?? I have some relatives that were so impressed with the globe thistle that they want some, too, so I'd really like to figure this out! I guess if all else fails I could divide the plants or try to find volunteers coming up next year... Or just plant samples of all the ways I can think of doing it and see which one works. But that sounds like the hard way! :)

I would think the seeds would be small and black, like other thistle seeds are upon harvest (think niger thistle seed for finches). Are there small seeds at the ends of each rod?

This is making me feel so incompetent-- why can't I seem to find a seed in all this mess?!

Okay, so I took a few more pictures. The other lady kept calling it the "hairy kimono", which doesn't really clarify things for me! So here's a spike that I took apart. Inside is this fuzzy rod:

And when I tried to look inside the fuzzy rod, I got these "pieces":

Which got me thinking: maybe this isn't even where the seed is?? So I looked at the flower again. No black spikes, but what about the brown spike? Could that be the seed??

I guess it makes sense that it would be in the center of the flower-- a common place to find seeds, and the part I was saving in the first place. Maybe I should just do my planting experiment. Thanks for your help, gardenwife! Sorry I'm so dense I can't figure this out!

Most seeds develop at the base of the blooms, right? I've been growing these things for three years and I still have never harvested any. I've been searching for photos of the seed collection process, but no luck just yet.

Yeah, I haven't had much luck searching online either. I guess maybe they're in the flower. One of these days I'll plant a few and see what happens. Do you think they'd grow now if I tried it indoors, or would I have to wait until spring? Maybe my relatives will have to wait a year to get their globe thistle until I have a chance to experiment and see what I can do!

Thanks for helping my solve my mystery, gardenwife!! We're getting there...

--Dana

Dana- I'm in the same area as you, well same city actually. Where did you get the original plant? One, it might help you to find out what to do, and two I'm going to be looking for one. I took a look on google for "Echinops ritro propagation" and I found this on http://web1.msue.msu.edu/msue/imp/modzz/00000552.html
"Propagation. Propagation is by seed, division, or root cuttings. The seed germinates in 15 to 20 days at temperatures of 65 to 70 degrees. Some of the seedlings may be of inferior types. Make root cuttings 2 to 3 inches long. Pieces or root left in the ground during division act as root cuttings. "
Which says to me that it could be started inside, but make sure you have room to keep it inside until Spring.

danak,

Would you _Please_ post your pictures here: Globe Thistle (Echinops ritro) http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/634/index.html there are no pictures like that on those pages.

***************************
zhinu,

Could you put that info here; _Please_: Globe Thistle (Echinops ritro) http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/634/index.html

~* Robin

zhinu: Wow, another Oly DGer!! Hi there neighbor! Thanks for the link. I'm thinking maybe it would just be easier to propagate this by division or root cutting. Well, at least until I figure out which is the seed for sure. I guess I'll have to do a test run. It would be fun to share seeds with people, too. :)

Robin: great idea! I considered posting my favorite picture with a bee on the flower, but there was one so similar that I decided not to post it. Didn't even think of posting these! However, since I'm still not sure what they're depicting, I have no idea what to put for the heading... Any ideas?

Thanks,
Dana

Sorry it took me so long to respond. This was one of the first threads I wrote to (I was looking through people in Olympia to hopefully get ideas on things to grow here) I didn't know you had to click that you had to click the watch this thread, and by the time I figured it out, I didn't know where this thread was.

danak - There are a few of us on here. I know it seems like a really small town sometimes, but there are a lot of people who live here. I've noticed that we have similar interest, we both write a lot, or both. Your name keeps popping up on threads I'm reading. Are you interested in Salal (Gaultheria Shallon) or Low Oregon Grape (Mahonia Nervosa) I'm going to be collecting seeds this weekend I think.

NatureWalker - I think someone beat me to it, but I have been adding missing information as I work on my plant list, if it's in the book but not on the files. Do you know how to add to the information already listed?

Hi zhinu,
Maybe we should have an Olympia Roundup sometime?? I'm not sure that I've ever run across anyone else from Oly. That's cool there are a few of us! I think I have some places that would be great if filled in with salal or oregon grape. Let me know. :)

Thanks,
Dana

P.S. Still don't know what my photos are depicting. I decided I'm going to try some "seeds" to find out which the seeds are. Once I know, then I'll post the pictures??

danak - lol, I'll let you know how my seed collecting trip goes.

To All - Please take a look at my thread Organizations trying to help in the aftermath of Katrina http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/541779/ Help if you can, pass the information on to anyone else who may help, Thank you. I'm trying to make sure as many people as possible see this, so I'm posting the link to the threads I'm watching. Sorry if you get to see it several time.

I hope I am not the only one confused about the seeds of this plant. A friend in another state wanted seeds from mine so I thought, well that can't be too difficult. I collected a bunch of "stuff" from the dried seed head or what I assumed was the seed head but nothing germinated for her.

Meandy, I started a different thread about this on the propagation forum (temporarily giving up on finding the seeds), and I got an answer on the seeds!! Badseed took a lot of pictures explaining it in detail-- the mystery is finally solved! Here's a link to that thread: http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/543303.

I have read that not all seeds are viable, though, so it's a good idea to collect extra. :)

I hope this helps!
--Dana