Mycorrhizae?? Do flower gardeners use/need this?

Hi,

Was getting ready to plant some 'July sale' perennials and the garden center showed me some 'Messenger' which is a Mycorrhizae fungus root stimulator additive product, and they also showed me 'Promix' which is a Mycorrhizae mix planting medium ($32 a bale, ouch!). Also I think Jamie68 mentioned and uses 'Dr. Earth' products on the rock garden forum, too...

I wonder if these 'fungal stimulator' products make a difference to your flower growth if your garden soil is already amended with manure, peat, compost, osmocote, whatever...I tried to google around on this, and I did find a positive sounding article from the Royal Horticultural Society, mainly about planting trees, though. And a few others that sounded like they could be advertising hype...

Do any of the flower gardeners here have experience with these sorts of additives? Are they worth it?

Would you say Yea! or Nay! to adding it to the soil prep recipe?

Thanks. t.

Hi Tabasco!

I used Messenger on my zinnia seedlings when they were still small. You're supposed to use it when they have at least two pair of true leaves (found that out on radio this past Sunday). Anyhow, none of mine have any mildew and they get blasted with the irrigation system three times a week, 90 minutes at a time.

A neighbor gave me his leftover Zinnia seedlings, about 3" tall, healthy and happy but they were straight from a nursery. They don't have mildew but are eaten up by earwigs and look dreadful. I think the Messenger activates a self immune system in them.

Ate our first tomatoes, tonight, and they were no different from normal even though DH used the spray on them but there are no yellow leaves at all on the tomatoes in the barrels but there are in the garden - also sprayed.

With Messenger you never mix one drop more than you will use within three hours. After that their guarantee is not the same.

Arlene

Judy, this is my first year using Messenger. I am getting blooms on my Brugs a lot earlier than normal but I also got them out into the greenhouse much earlier. To be honest, for what it costs, I don't think I would go crazy with it on end of season annuals. I did use it on more precious, harder to find annuals, other such plants, brugs, etc. I might consider using it on perennials just to give them a boost since the weather is so wacky.

I won't go without the Promix ever again. I have already used about 10 bales of it. LOL If that is the price for the compressed 3.8 cu ft, it's not bad. Wholesale on it is around $20, give or take. Most nurseries mark it up about $10. I started buying it at a local nursery that was gouging me at $40 per bale. Then I found a place at $30. And they closed!! :( Where are you finding it for $32?

A silly question, but would this Messenger work on like the rusty hollyhocks? To keep the rust away if you spray after the 2 true leaf stage?
Carol

Thanks for the scoop, Pirl and Badseed--

I thought Messenger was to stimulate the roots and growing system. I didn't know it could do things for rust/mildew prevention etc....

Do you think the blooms are 'more better' with Messenger?

Interesting about Promix. I talked to the lady at Bzak's Landscaping on Roundbottom Road about it. She said it's the cadillac of planting mediums and the 'pros' use it. I think it's peat, manure, some top soil and some fungal/bacteria additive (messenger/miccro..I wonder?) at $32/bale I balked on it, and she said I would do just as well to mix my own...mmm... Here's the Promix link and it gives the composition percentages...
http://www.premierhort.com/website/products/aproducts/aprodprof/aprodpropmix/afpromixproff.html

It's a Canadian company and apparently they have an distribution office in Quakertown, PA. We could all go together and buy a truckload!

I do use 'Posy Power' which is an garden soil amendment and is supposed to have some kind of brewer's yeast with a bacterial fungal action. That is nice and it's $5 per bag at Bzaks. http://users.adelphia.net/~zipsys/index.html

We could send a truck there...it's in Jackson, Ohio.

I just heard about messenger on the radio on Saturday (never before) they were raving about its' effects on plants.

Ok, lev, then I'm going out today to the garden center to buy some 'Messenger' and try it on my 'summer bargain perennials'.

I'll let you know what I think...

I'm still interested to hear what others' results have been on their perennials.

Thanks. t.

The way I understand Messenger, it is supposed to help the plant be more healthy by making the plant use it's own mechanisms to fight off disease and the like. It is not a ferilizer. There was a co-op for it on the brug forum last year, which is where I got mine. There is a lot of info there on what it is and what it does.

Here you go: www.edenbio.com


This message was edited Jul 20, 2005 2:57 PM

Ok,... looked at the Brug thread and the Eden/Messenger site. Lots of diverse opinions on the the thread...mmm...wonder if there are any updates on the 'before and after' comparisons!

I did note that Gardens Alive sells 'Messenger' under the 'Green Guard' trade name for less $$. I may drive over to Lawrenceburg, Indiana to their outlet shop (just for fun) and get some of that!

I'm surprised that with all the DGers who own 'Messenger' because of the co-op I haven't had more opinions offered here...perhaps most of them only grow brugs and didn't see this thread.....

I bought some Promix today and I am going to do a (fifth grade science fair project) comparison with Promix, Miracle Gro potting soil mix, and my own mix, on three ferns I purchased yesterday....

Bought some half dead plants (for a $1 each) and so I have a lot of patients for my plant hospital right now!

Having fun in the garden, hope you are too. Although it's blasted hot. t.

Hey tabasco.. what is your e mail address. I'll e mail you a science project I wrote for the schools that planted Remember Me Rose Gardens. The age group is Middle Schoolers. The project uses Messenger but you can easily tweek it to use different products or types of plants.

I have used Messenger this year, and it was more effective than I had even hoped!! It is such a new product, and there is so much confusion about it - I really had to read a lot to find good, reliable info. We are so used to fertilizers, and this product is so NOT a fertilizer, that taking the time to read a bit about it like tabasco did is a great idea.

This product is like an immune system booster for our plants, helping them to fend off, and resist attack from everything - bugs, mildew, rust, etc..... It does not feed them, nor improve the soil, and all it takes is a mist on the leaves - more is a waste....and boy does it work!!! My roses are amazing since I started using it - no more black-spot, and earlier in the year some of them had lost every last leaf to it before my Messenger use! My lilies are all taller, and the flowers are HUGE!!! My Hosta have so little slug damage this year that this benefit alone will keep me using the product! I think it gives the plant so much increased vigor, that more energy gets to go to growing foliage, and flowers - it is exciting to have a whole new type of product to try on our gardens!!!

This rose had not one leaf early in the growing season. A wet, cold spring made black-spot a very big problem. After 3 applications of messenger at 3wk intervals.....amazing change!!! Not only green, healthy foliage - but loaded with buds and blooms. I love Messenger!!! :o)

Jamie

Your rose picture says enough for me! My poor little roses are suffering so from the Black Spot, I'll just have to try it!

Thripmaster--thanks for the offer of the Science Fair Project material...

tabasco ~ try this site for info, and to order if you want... http://www.bdlilies.com/mes3.html ...the lilies aren't bad either LOL :o)

Jamie

ps....some lilies from this site, just thought I'd try to tie it all together LOL

Hi guys~

I found a really good description of Messenger if anyone wants to read it....kind of long, but great info....

http://www.hos.ufl.edu/mooreweb/TissueCulture/reports/HOS%20messenger-amy.doc

Have a good day!
Jam

Thanks, Jamie,

I went to the lily site and ordered some M. and then read the University of Florida information too along with other internet info. Very interesting: I am going to do my own 'trials' and find out if there is a difference in my garden.

I would love to have perky plants in July, but I don't know if Messenger can 'beat the heat' that seems to bother them! I'm afraid only Mother Nature can do that!

Your roses sure look pretty. I would love to have some beautiful roses like that. Hopefully some Messenger will help kill off the ailments mine are experiencing and help them recover to a state of lovelyness... but I think it would take a miracle, not just Messenger!

Let us know how your garden is growing in the NW. Take care. t.

Hi tabasco~

I really would love to know what you think of Messenger.....keep me posted!! Are you going to start using it right away, or next season to compare with this one?? Either way, please let me know!!

This picture is the rose in my entry-way bed that I used Messenger on....there are two others that I didn't - sort of a mini-experiment. It is a floribunda rose 'Hot Cocoa' that usually blooms with 3-7 buds per cluster.....this pic is of a single stem...and the 25+ blooms and buds on the one stem.....25+!!! I have never had this rose do that, and neither of the other 2 are doing it...they look good...but 25+? No way!! It will take a couple of seasons to really know how much credit to give Messenger, and how much to give chance, or a good, healthy rose bush (Epsom salt, manure and compost tea, Bayer 3-in-1 twice this season so far).....I do help my roses along.....but still have never seen so many basal shoots or buds and blooms on a single bush.....can't wait to hear what you find!! :-)

Jamie

You might be interested to know that one of our members is a Rep for Messenger. Her name is Thripmaster. Says the new 2nd generation is better but I forget the name.

Yes, J., that rose is a knock-out! (not the cultivar) LOL

I will get going with the Messenger and let you know. I have plenty of new plantings to try side by side experiments with, but I think your rose says enough to me.

I don't see why all the garden centers don't carry it. My three that I went to and asked about M. didn't have a clue...

Thanks again. t.

here ( http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/530339/ ) there is a discussion about Monotropa uniflora and transplanting it into a cultivated environment. It is a rootless plant that supplements it's scaly flowers with microrrhizal tubules that suck nutrients out of nearby trees. http://www.acorn-online.com/hedge/pipe.htm

I was wondering if i could viably use a microrrhizally enhanced soil to cultivate this plant in my backyard between two large trees. does anyone have any information that might point me in the right direction?

The most recent issue of The American Gardener magazine, which is the journal of the American Horticultural Society, has a good article on micorrhizae, including a list of suppliers. I haven't tried it yet, but it surely does sound promising!