New gardener discouraged...

I've recently started planting in my backyard and this spring I planted some seeds in hopes that I would have a garden by Fall. The only seeds that sprouted were Pumpkins, the rest (a whole aquarium of cactus, scabiosa, morning glories, marigolds, volas) failed to sprout. Some would sprout and then die unexpectedly. Also, all of the plants I have tried to propagate by rooting cuttings have dried and been thrown away. Any ideas for plants that are easily propagated by seed or cutings? Thanks.

Scott

Hang in there Scott.. it's happened to all us, too!

The first garden I planted was right under the eaves of the house and the first good rain we had washed everything up by the roots! :)

MsC

Ah! I don't think it's ature's fault so much as my inability, but i'm a little more heartened at you feel my pain.

You definitely have to keep the soil moist at all times. Sounds like yours dried out at one time or another.

Scott,

Did you start the seeds indoors and then they just sort of wilted over after emerging? Maybe Dampin Off was the problem. Look at this site: http://wihort.uwex.edu/gardenfacts/XHT1124.pdf

Scott,

Don't give up it is our failures that make success feel so good. We have all been there again and again and again. I am not sure what grows well in your area but look around and see what "everyone" in your neighborhood has maybe start with that plant.

Sandy

Scott, the first few years I tried to grow from seed, I had much your same experience. Then I searched online for a germination chart and that has made a huge differnce. Each variety of seed has it own germination requirments. Some need a period of cold before they are planted, so those need to be refridgerated for 6 wks. before you plant them. Some you do not give any light. Some are planted on top of the soil and others under the soil etc. Once you learn their needs, you will be amazed at what you can grow from seed. I also found that it is much easier for me to start the seeds inside under grow lights and then plant them out than to start them in
the yard. Everything except morning glory's that I tried to start in the ground were eatten up by bugs. You may have started your morning glorys before the ground was warm enough for them, or you didn't chip and soak them before planting them out. Here is a site where you can run off a germination chart.http://www.ipm.iastate.edu/ipm/hortnews/2000/2-25-2000/annflowgerm.html
There are other germination charts also available if you do a google search.

Maybe this will help encourage you ;-)

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/20066/#top

Scott,

For seeds that need to stay moist to germinate I love the styrofoam float trays. Around here tobacco growers use them for their tobacco and I've started seeing them in some of the garden centers. Basicall the setup I have is a 200 cell tray with 1"x1" cells. You can get a LOT of stuff in one tray. I also have 72 cell trays with the larger cells. The tray is filled with a soiless medium and placed in a tray of water where it floats. I've even built an outdoor setup to start early lettuce etc. You can see last year's pics of the setup here. http://www.kerrysgarden.us/?p=9

It is great cause you don't have to remember to water and if your float bed is large enough the water can help to even out the soil temp.

Kerry

This message was edited Jun 29, 2005 6:47 PM

Those are great... any idea where i could get some? and what is soilless medium? like vermiculite?

I picked mine up at a Southern States store for under $5 each. Same general idea are the BioDomes from Park Seed http://www.parkseed.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/StoreCatalogDisplay?storeId=10101&catalogId=10101&langId=-1&mainPage=gateseedstarters

I've seen them at Worm's Way but they are sooo expensive. http://www.wormsway.com/detail.asp?sku=SFG300

Manufacturers of the trays I have (200 cell and 72 cell (tray is aprox 13" x 26") include Speedling http://www.speedling.com/products/horticultural/ Ky Burley Moldings (no web site but you can google a phone number) and a company called Beltwide out of Florida http://www.beltwide.net/page7.html The only page on their site that works is the contact page. You may or may not be able to contact either of them and see about a local distributor or buying from them. I have bought them used from tobacco growers for as little as $1 each several years back.

Soiless media is something we get locally for these trays. It has vermiculite in it but that isn't all and I am not sure what else. I have used a miracle grow type mix. The idea is to have something that drains well and isn't too heavy and has a fine texture (no sticks). When you fill it don't pack the media too tightly but do bang the tray on the counter a couple of times while you are filling it to settle it. Otherwise you may end up with dry cells (cells that don't take up water). It also helps to moisten the media first. Not soggy just moist.

Since you are just starting out in all this it might be to your advantage to buy one of the Park type outfits as I am sure they come with directions and pointers.

Gosh those are great but i'm not willing to spend $20 on one. We don't have tobacco fields around here.

It is discouraging but it happens to all of us. I STILL cannot get viola seeds to germinate and when I first started, the sun burned up most of the seeds I did get to germinate. I finally tried winter sowing and had great success. About 80 % of my plants germinated and LIVED. Plus it was EASY. Here's a link. And it does work! I can attest to it!

http://www.wintersown.org/

I just recently got some viola seeds to germinate in a float tray. One thing I did was NOT to cover them with soil. It took them much longer than everything else (like about a month maybe). I started the flat on April 2 and the plants are just now about 2" tall and one even has a flower. I just moved them out of the float tray day before yesterday.

I have always wanted to try winter sowing but always forget lol. I have heard lots of great reviews on the technique and from what I've read it doesn't get much easier.

do our winters in 9b get cold enough for winter sowing?

Yes,
Here's what this website says about that.
http://www.wintersown.org/wseo1/It_Doesnt_Snow_Here.html

You might work into the seeds slowly and start with plants in containers. Seeds can have problems at various stages for various reasons and they do take a while. It is getting late for planting seeds in CA as the heat will burn stuff up that is planted in the ground.

In the fall, I would start with easy things first, if nothing more than to perfect your techniques. Marigolds, things like that. Put the seeds in a #2 cone-type filter paper, dampen the paper using a spray bottle filled with either outside water or a half-strength chamomile tea solution and put them inside a quartsize plastic bag. Get the filter paper damp, not soaking wet. Find a warm spot that is sunny inside, but no direct sun. Top of the fridge, hanging by a window.

In a few days you will see sprouts. Take some old plastic plant six-packs or other small containers, wash them in a dilute bleach solution, rinse them and then fill the six packs with a fifty-fifty mixture of perlite and peat or a seed mix (there are more exotic mixes and everyone has their favorites, but starting out, perlite and peat is fine). Then put the six packs in a flat 3 inch high container and fill the container with water to where it comes just below the top of the six pack being careful not to get water on the top of the six pack as this just compacts the soil mix. Let the six pack get thoroughly, soaking wet, probably five to ten minutes. Take the six pack out of the water and let it drain. Then plant the sprouts.

Do not pick up the seedlings by the stem, use just the leaves. The stems are very delicate at this stage and easily damaged. The leaves are not true leaves and it will not hurt the plant that much if you accidentally mash part of the leaf. You can make a hole using a tooth pick. You can use your fingers, tweezers, toothpicks to move the seedling. Make sure the whole root, including the little sideroots at the top is covered. You need to get this done fairly quickly as the root can dry out. Once the seedling root is covered, manipulate the seedling so it is standing up. If the seedling is a little leggy you can bury some of the stem. Then put the six packs in a plastic bag using a couple of small sticks or wires to keep the plastic from touching the seedling. You will not need to water the six pack for several days. Do not go crazy misting them, the plastic will keep the 6 pack from drying out and misting can create the perfect environment for fungi to grow. You can tell when it needs to be watered because it gets much lighter in color and the six pack gets lighter in weight. To water, take the six pack out of the plastic and repeat putting the six pack in a tray with water.

After about a week the seedling doesn't need the plastic cover. You can put it outside in the shade for a few hours, slowly increasing that over the next week. After that, you can slowly give them more in the sun, making sure it doesn't dry out and then plant it when it gets big enough, like the size you see in the nurseries. After you have done this with the easy seeds, made lots of mistakes, seen better ways to do things, then you are ready to try harder seeds.

If you want to really get into this there are specialized trays, domes, soil, thermometers, propagating stations, lights, and a myriad of other things available on the Internet. You can also get seeds from around the world and seeds that have specialized requirements.

A very good place to start your reseach is right here at the propagation forum. Read the old posts and then go to the classics forum and read those as well. You will find most of your questions answered. Check out the plant finder as well. Generally by typing in the name of the plant you are interested into a search engine you can gain a lot of knowlege as well.

Good luck! propagation is lots of fun and you can become fairly intense about it.

In reading over my post I seed I forgot some of the details, but most of this is trial and error, asking questions here and just experimenting. You can use the toothpick to get under the root and pry it loose. If you pull too hard on the leaf, it will either break the root or the stem. Sometimes the root will grow through the filter paper and you have to make a hole to get it out. It is better to wait a little while before moving the seedling, until the root is reasonable size, not too long or too short. When they are too short they dry out and when they are too long they are hard to stuff in the hole, grow into the filter paper, break easily. Transfer more than one seedling per cell, you can cull later and some will die at this stage.

That's the most comprehensive seed planting guide i've ever read. thank you heaps... where do i get filter paper?

Wal+Mart, K+Mart, Longs, Safeway, any place that sells coffee and drip coffee makers. They are the cone type filters, not the wavy edged Mr. Coffee type. You put the seeds inside and when they are damp you can usually see the green from the seedlings and the roots so you do not even have to open the bag. Bag will stay damp for about four to five days and then just give it a squirt with a spray bottle filled with half-strength chamomile tea. If you get fungi, take the seeds out of the filter paper, put them in a new filter paper, dampen them with either a copper spray or use an Aliette solution. You can put the filter paper in the plastic bag before spraying with either of these solutions as they can be toxic. Just leave a little opening to insert the head of the spray bottle. Label the ones you have sprayed, so you know what is going on. You can keep a running narrative on the filter paper or baggie if you use permanent marking pens. I number every filter paper and then use a master list to keep track of what is happening. But then I started six hundred seeds so it was getting beyond any abilty to remember. That is not a good idea. Small problem with the family motto: Too much is not enough. Sometimes, too much is too much.

If you mark each seed pack with a number and only use part of the seed, you can go back and repeat the failures. Keep the left over seeds in double plastic ziplock bags in the fridge. Most seeds will last several years this way. If you use the filter paper method (Deno modified) you do not need that many seeds to get the number of plants you want. I never use more than half a packet and usually a lot less. When the seeds are all bunched together in the filter paper they seem to get the fungi more often.

I started wearing rubber gloves when I did the spraying with fungicide, but I am not sure that it helped with the toxicity. Spraying and changing paper does cut way down on the fungi. If the seeds are big and have not broken dormancy I rinse them in a weak bleach solution. Once they have broken dormancy the bleach will damage the seedling. Some plants are very suseptible to the fungi, others just grow right through it. Sometimes it does not show up until you plant the seedling, then the top just withers. Brugmansias, daturas, erythrinas, crotolarias, alstroemerias seem particularly suseptible to the fungi. The next time I do this, in the fall, I am going to wash all the big seeds in weak bleach first, then do what ever other treatment is required.

I germinated my first seed in February and now I have totally switched from buying plants to growing everything myself. But I have devoted an enormous amount of time to it. I am starting to accumulate seeds for the fall, including the ones that didn't work this spring and quite a few new ones. Some of the overseas places have long lead times for seeds. So you have to order early, keeping mind though, that you want to get the new seeds, not the leftovers from last year's harvest.