Friend or Foe #3

Continuing the thread concerning bugs in the garden. Post your questions and pictures and I'll try to answer them. I'll also continue posting pictures of beneficial and harmless insects that might be found in the garden.

Here's a link to thread #2 - http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/509615/ . And here's a link to the first Friend or Foe thread - http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/503459/ .

To start us off, here's an interesting critter called a hanging fly (family Bittacidae), because it often hangs by its front feet. It uses the back feet to catch small insects. Because of their long legs, hanging flies resembles crane flies (family Tipulidae), but crane flies do not catch prey with their back legs. Here's a hanging fly that has caught an insect by my porchlight.

Wow, reminds me of what we called "mosquito eaters" when I was a kid...

I still call them "mosquito eaters". NB, do they really eat mosquitos too, or is that just wishful thinking? (BTW, I never thought I'd be HOPING to dig up some new ugly bug in the garden, but now I'm always on the lookout....) ;->

hello night_bloom,

caught a squash borer today :-(
No question about the ID (darn it), but I'm wondering if you can tell me how fast they can lay their eggs?

It alighted on the stems of 4 or 5 plants before I caught it. The alighting was very fleeting. It *looked* like it was searching around for a nice juicy stem to lay its eggs on. But I wonder if it was actually laying as I watched?

Tamara - thanks for adding the link to here on the last thread. I always forget to do that.

Margu - Mosquitoes would definitely be the kind of thing that hanging flies would eat. In the picture above it is eating a small crane fly which is very similar to a big mosquito. Mosquitoes that fly close to the ground would be the most likely, because many hangingflies like to be low in the vegetation.

paani - uh oh. I hate those things, and that's not something I normally say about insects. It is possible that she did lay some eggs. Did you look closely at the stems? There is supposed to be something that you can use against squash vine borers. Imidicloprid won't work, because it isn't effective on caterpillars. I'll try to find out what you can use when I get to work tomorrow. The sooner the better I think. Keep an eye out for more, and I'm impressed that you caught it. They are usually pretty quick fliers.

No time for pictures tonight. I'll post something tomorrow.

N_B - will I actually be able to see the sqash borer eggs? do you know the color? laid singly or in batches? I'll go and see what I can see.

btw, do you know how long from egg-laying to larvae hatching? (that is, how long have I got?!)

here's a link to Tom Clothier's advice about squash borers:
http://tomclothier.hort.net/page30.html
he says that injecting the stems with bt. is generally recommended *and* that it doesn't work.
He advises putting aluminum foil on the ground around the base of the plants *once they start to lay down from weight of vines* to disorient the borers.
My plants are still just seedlings. Do you see any reason I shouldn't try this right now? Might burn the underside of the leaves before there's any canopy?

Ellis & Bradley's Organic Gardener's Handbook of Natural Insect and Disease says spray base of plants with rotenone or pyrethrin repeatedly to kill young larvae before they enter vines. (it has other advice too, but this is their chemical advice). I've never used either and am reluctant.

I've only got about 20-30 cucurbit plants. Could I hand wash the stems and remove the eggs?
I suppose it's not that simple...

Do crane flies eat anything or are they just annoying? We have tons of them every year. Are they harmful to the yard or plants?

paani - squash vine borers cement their eggs to the squash stem or nearby. The best thing to do is to spray the stem area with something like pyrethrin. Pyrethrin is a natural pesticide that is derived from plants (Chrysanthimum, I believe). It is very short-lived, so you might have to spray the stem every few days, but the chemical does break down quickly in the environment so should not harm much of anything else if you keep the application to the stems. The squash vine borer may go after cucumber and melon, but that usually happens only when something they like better isn't available.

If the plants do get infected, make sure they are destroyed at the end of the season. You can try to save the plants by trying to dig out the worms or stick them to kill them, but this is tricky business and sometimes doesn't work. Look for frass to indicate larva activity and then cut the larvae out. Bury the stem afterwards. Like tomatoes, burried areas of vine often produce new roots, so burying the stem might be a good thing. You can also drop Bt or nematodes into the holes. the squash plant tissues should suck the stuff up.

This year, I'm trying a pine straw mulch to cover the base of the vines. Next year if your grarden has the room, you might wish to plant a trap crop like one or two Hubbard squash. The squash vine borers like this best and will attack that instead. Then just destroy the Hubbard squash plant later on.

I don't know if this was helpful or not, but it's pretty much all the info I have.


konkreteblonde - as far as I know crane fly adults don't eat anything, and most crane fly larvae live in water or moist soil/ organic matter. A few are pests, but those are rare. Some craneflies do elaborate dances to attract mates. These are harmless and even though they somewhat resemble mosquitoes, they don't bite.


Okay today we have a critter that bites. Centipedes (Chilopoda) like to hide under log piles and leaf litter. They are good predators, but will bite if provoked. The bite resembles a wasp sting I've been told and shouldn't do any lasting damage. Centipedes are distinguished by having one pair of legs per segment and being quick moving. This distinguishes them from millipedes (Diplopoda) which have two pairs of legs per body segment and generally move quite slowly. Millipedes also tend to be more rounded and have their legs more under their body. They also usually curl up if disturbed.

This is one of the most commonly encountered of the centipedes - the house centipede. They sometimes get into homes. This one was cruising my basement where I left it to hunt insects in peace.

And here's a millipede. They come in many colors and sizes. Some live in leaf litter or under logs, while others live underground. This is a white species that I often encounter when digging in the garden. This one often lives underground. It's curled up in the defensive posture in this photo. The head is curled into the interior to protect it. Although these aren't predators, they are usually harmless and eat organic matter. If conditions around the home are too moist (i.e. overwatering gardens or drainage problems), however, some species of millipedes may build-up and become annoying by migrating inside when weather conditions change. Reducing excessive moisture around the foundation is almost always a good idea, because moisture is one of the most, if not the most, important factor that attracts insects and other pests to the home.

Thanks for the info on squash vine borers! I had so many last year, I think I picked maybe 4 summer squash. Next year, I will definitely do a trap crop with a couple of hubbard vines. I may still get around to hoeing up some hills in the orchard this year; we'll see. I have seeds for some types that are supposed to be more resistant to borers (eg, butternut). Do you think I can plant them in the same hills I used last year (I did pull up & destroy the infected vines), or do I need to try new locations?

Wow NB, you read my mind! I just found one of those house centipedes in my bathroom about a week ago, and was going to post about it! They are UGLY suckers, aren't they? But I read that they feed on a variety of insects, including cockroaches, so they are welcome guests, as long as they stay tucked away in the walls! I also read that the sting they have, which as you say can feel like a wasp sting on humans, is what they kill their prey with, to have them for dinner. I hope they like potato bugs..... ;->

Okay, so I have a stupid question. I found two different types of caterpillars on my petunias at different places yesterday. My question is, are some caterpillars just caterpillars or do all of them change into something else?

I don't want to squash something only to find out that it was going to eventually be something good. On the other hand, I don't want to have something eating my opetunias that will always be a caterpillar.

I will try to get pictures if I can find the little darlings again.

Thanks.

Re squash borers... for those of us with just a few squash plants, is there any way to find these eggs before they hatch into nasties? It's a breeze with the Colorado potato beetle, but those are bright orange and clumped together... and larger?

shuggins - caterpillars always become something - either a butterfly, a skipper, or a moth. They also can look different at different stages of their caterpillar development, so it is possible that you have two kinds of caterpillars, but you might also have one type of caterpillar, but some are older than others. I'll try to give examples when I get home tonight.

Here is a picture of one of my caterpillars. Could find the other one, but be sure he is there somewhere. I could certainly see the evidence. I hope this is clear enough to be able to tell something about him. For a point of reference as far as size, that is the leaves of the petunias, so you have an idea. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Here's another pic of the same one. Maybe it is clearer.

shuggins - it looks like a butterfly caterpillar, but I'll have to take a look around to see if I can identify it.

Anyone else have an idea?

Well then it can eat all the petunias it wants. Actually, they are starting to look ragged from the heat anyway, so maybe it is doing me a favor. I still haven't found the other one. It's about the same size, but the coloring is all different.

I would love any additional info that you come up with. This is my first year with these beds, so I really don't know much about these things.

Thanks.

Zeppy, this is how I am handling the squash bugs this year:

I carry out a bucket of soapy water with veg oil in it to the garden, where I have several short boards right by the squash plants. First I look on the leaves for the bugs, and toss them in. But more likely they will be hiding under the board, they just get on the leaves to eat, make out, and lay eggs! When I turn the board over, I squash them directly on the board, runaways are picked up and put in bucket. Leaves need to be examined on the underside for eggs and nymphs. If you do this often, hopefully you will never have the nymphs! Smush the eggs if possible. Sometimes I have to just tear off the leaf. They are small and round, laid together in a triangular pattern. Orange I think. I will give a link later, have to go find my boys they "ran away" again...

Things like Safer's Soap is supposed to be effective. It didn't do enough last year, but probably becasue i didn't catch it in time. Regardless, another way to find the bugs is to hose down the plants, then they will climb onto the top to dry off in the sun. Pick and dump, pick and dump. Wear gloves in case they bite, though it seems unlikely. If there are a lot, I go for the older looking ones, esp the ones mating!

Hope you have looked through the threads, so you know what the different ones look like, and how to tell if they are predators or leaf-eaters.

Tamara

Any idea what this guy is? He was doing a weird little dance on my flowers - didn't seem to be laying anything. He would lift his rear leg and brush on his body and flap one wing. Bout a half an inch long with two dots on his wings.

-Kim

I have a couple of bugs I would like some info on please.
Here is the first of a bug I found on my apple tree... good or bad?

another of the same bug

This is a wonderful thread!!! I found a small, green caterpillar, wrapped up in white stuff, that is like cotton in appearance, maybe sticky. Each of the caterpillars have been wrapped up in leaves, generally at the top of the plant, where there is new growth, eating the plant away. I couldn't get a photo because my battery was dead. I would think that the cotton like wrapping would make it easier to identify, since I don't have a photo. This caterpillar is ugly and active, once it's outta the cotton/leaf wrapping. What can I use to get rid of them???

Kim~ He sure is funky lookin, but your flowers are gorgeous!

SherrLike~I think those could be leafrollers, and unless they turn into something rare and remarkably beautiful, I would smoosh them...

Dovey, WOW, lookadda tails and eyes on that thing? Could it be a damselfly?

This message was edited Jun 14, 2005 6:40 PM

This message was edited Jun 14, 2005 6:41 PM

That's exactly what I did, Tam, thanks!! I've never heard of a leafroller, but I'll bet that's exactly what is is, because that's exactly what it did. Do you know if I should expect an outbreak, I've seen 4 so far. I appreciate your reply!!! SherryLike

I have only found on erolled up, but took it apart to get a good look at it (in my potatoes, no less), and squished a few that I saw that hadn't rolled yet. I would suppose they like the wet weather, cause that is what we have had lately... I have been praying against out breaks, so far none yet....
Tamara

I believe mine came from my blackberry plants. I just checked everything again, and I didn't see more, so maybe the worst is over. Thanks, Tam!!

bluekat - that is a soldier beetle (family Cantharidae). If you go to the first Friend or Foe thread (link is in first post of this thread) at least 3/4 of the way down, (second to last photo) there's a picture and description. He's usually a good guy.

dovey - that is a mayfly (order Ephemeroptera). They can have two or four wings and they usually have those tails (two or three depending on the species). It probably came from a pond or slow-moving water source nearby. May flies have strange biology in that they have two winged forms (for no apparent reason either) - a subimago and an adult. The adults are aso known for lasting a very short time - usually mating, laying eggs and soon dying afterwards.

Sherrylike - it sounds like squishing was the best option. The only leaf rollers I was familiar with are bean leaf rollers, and I'm kind of fond of them, because they turn into a rather pretty skipper butterfly. There are pictures of both the skipper and the caterpillar (and its rolled leaf home) on the second thread I believe (in the middle of the thread somewhere - look for the skipper butterflies for the adult, then go down until you see the leaf blob). But I believe the bean leaf roller only eats beans and related plants, so this probably isn't your critter. You can see what another bean leaf roller's home looks like though if you are interested.


Okay, I've been lapse in posting pictures lately - it's been a rough garden season here with all the non-stop rain. Now that it finally has dried out a bit, I'm having to weed like crazy and it's generally after dark before I get inside to make dinner. That restricts picture-taking time, but i managed to get this one (at my porchlight again). This is an ichneumonid wasp (family Ichneumonidae). It is a parasitic wasp, usually onlarger critters such as grasshoppers or wood eating beetles. This wasp is actually a pretty good size - over an inch long.

Here's a bug I don't think I've seen on this forum. I see these guys fairly often around my place. He was moving pretty fast, so I had to take about a dozen photos to get one that could be seen. So, should I release him back to the garden or not?

I would like to take a guess!?

With that brilliant coloring, and the ridge on his back, I would say he is a nymph of an assasin bug?! Assasin bugs are on the first thread, I believe...

He looks like a soldier beetle or stink bug, but his legs are so long, and the ridge reminds me of the assassins...

sebek - TamaraFaye is correct. You have an assassin bug there (family Reduviidae). This one is in the genus Zelus and is called the milkweed assassin bug. Below is a link to some pictures - just click on the thumbnails for a larger picture. One or two of the photos show the fat beak typical of many (but not all) predatory Hemiptera.

Pictures of the milkweed assassin bug... http://bugguide.net/node/view/4832/bgimage .

Tamara is also correct about there being pictures of assassin bugs on the first thread - mine aren't as coloful as yours though. There is a brown species and a greenish species.

Hi there NB, bug goddess of the universe ;-> - here in Los Angeles where it gets REALLY hot in the summer, we get these gigantic grasshoppers (like 3-4" long), which I can't stand. First of all, they eat my plants, and secondly, they fly out of my garden unexpectedly and scare the cr**p out of me! Especially when they fly right into my head! Is there any way to get rid of these guys naturally? Any way to encourage critters who might eat them? Anything that will entice them to commit suicide?

www.planetnatural.com has a semaspore for grasshoppers, but it has to be applied early in the season when they are nymphs. It only affects them, and is safe ecologically and organic approved.

other than that, there is a very gross way of handling it, but I think I will spare you, maybe NB has a better idea...

TamaraFaye- gross is okay! Anything! Of course if it involves me catching them, that's another story, but please, anything........and next year I'll try to get to them early.

Night, I don't think mine (as if I wanted it) is a bean leaf roller - the leaf roller I have, uses the white sticky stuff and rolls itself up tightly, like a roll of paper, and it's rather neatly rolled. Sometimes to the point that I just cannot believe there is a cat in there, but when I get to the very middle and last roll, there it is. If I see another one (praying I don't) I'll try to get a photo this time. I love your threads!!!!

Am I missing something Sherry? A cat in there? My brain is stuck, what did you mean?

-Kim

Oooops, I'm sorry Kim, I guess that's brugmansia (forum) talk - we call caterpillars 'cats' - we talk about cats so often and, of course, it's shorter...cats LOVE brugs...

Ahh, okay, I should have gotten that one. Lucky for me I don't have a real cat problem here!

Thanks for the explanation - Kim

margu, SOMEBODY would need to catch a cup ful or so. Put them in a blender (puree them!). Then steep them in water a day or so. Strain. Dilute. Spray everywhere. You will never see another live one, I promise!

TamaraFaye; I'd be soooo happy to blend those suckers! Hmmmm. But I guess there's no such thing as a sticky 'Hopper-Hotel', eh? But thank you, if I can get someone to catch some, I won't hesitiate.