Blackberries (in Colorado) need advice

Ok, they say you can't grow blackberries in Colorado but I know SOMEWHERE, someone has been successful with them here. Any suggestions on what to add to our pretty neutral soil? Or tips. I orderd some cheapish ones as an experiment so any advice would be appreciated.
Mobi

Why can't you? If I can grow them in zone 6a, why can't you? Besides, like that you got some to try, nothing ventured, nothing gained! Didn't do anything special to the soil. Planted couple thorny ones 1st yr, 2003. In 2004 added some named thornless, only one survived, apparently. Orig thorny ones have multiplied. Put lg tom cages (60") around them last fall as they were all over the place; looking forward to goodies to eat! ~ Suzi :)

According to the Colorado State University web site
"Black and purple raspberries, as well as blackberries, boysenberries, loganberries and dewberries, require special winter protection and are not recommended for Colorado." But I bought three to try out. They were cheap so if I lose them.... but if it works... yummy!

Mobi

I vote for you! If they say it needs special protection, then maybe try that. I visited the Denver and went to the Great Divide in CO "way back when". Hope they grow, and overwinter fine, for you! Best wishes!! ~ Suzi :)

In Denver? Sheesh, my aunt leaves canna lilies in the ground and prunes the hybrid tea Mr.Lincoln back to 3 or 4' each spring just to keep it from eating the carport for lunch!! They live on Avrum in the east side of Denver. My winters are worse for duration of cold and I HAD blackberries and have spent 3 years trying to kill them off. Tooooo grabby with the thorns and poor production in the shade.

But I've also got thornless blackberry, purple, red and gold raspberries from Stark's that's done fantastic.

So Mobi, How are they doing? Growing like crazy?! ~ Suzi :)

Not crazy but growing, we've had a lot of rain lately so I am waiting......

I'm contemplating growing blackberries here in zone 2. There are varieties in the seed catalog that are listed as hardy to zone 3.

I would then, maybe in an area where they would be protected from the cold winter winds. ~ After all, nothing ventured, nothing gained! ~ Suzi :)

I am thinking about buying Doyle's Thornless Blackberries. The website says they will grow in zones 3-10. I live in a 4b but most of the blackberries I can get locally are for zone 5. I live in a high mountain valley so Doyle's are the only ones I would dare plant. Has anyone ever tried them? They should grow in Colorado, Mobi.

I finally found a lady who has been growing them here for years. I bought three triple crown and am trying them. I thought about the Doyle but decided to go with a sweeter variety. They are growing but slowly.

Mobi - I thought Doyle's was a sweet variety. Now I don't know whether to buy them or not.
How did you find out they weren't sweet?

I'm glad you can grow blackberries. See, nothing is impossible.

I'm going to grow blueberries in Utah. Lots of people have told me that's impossible.
My husband has made raised beds and I am going to control the pH the best I can. I have a tester.

I've read that it is not AS sweet as some, but it has great reviews and I almost went with Doyle myself. I may still try it.

Mine will be for eating fresh so I wanted a REALLY sweet berry.

The problem with controling the PH is water. Even if I get the soil right the water will change it back again. I wondered if using bottled water would work but I just don't want to go to the extra expense and work. And then it might not work. Don't NOT choose Doyle because of me. It might grow better and be successful. The lady who grows them successfully here said she did nothing different but didn't know the variety she had so.....

I went with Triple Crown and they are still small but have leaves. Making roots I hope.

I also found out that because of our PH here that rhododendrens only live between 2 and four years, well at least I know that when mine die it won't be my fault. It's also because of our water that changes the PH. So when my 2 go I'll have to find something else to take their place.

Hmmm my rhodo loves it here, the neighbor's aunt gave it to her father, in late 1940's. You can amend your soil to be either more acidic or alkaline. Not sure what exactly they like but this one loves it here! It is SOOOO big. Have trimmed it away from the shed roof a couple of times, but other than that, I like it being so big!

Amending the soil works for the blueberries and BB also. I know the blueberries lean to the acid side. Haven't had to do anything to the soil where I put them though. The prior owners even left some miracle grow product, think it is miracid. Must have been for the rhodo, since I put in the blue and BBs. Haven't had to use any of it.

Perhaps get something more acidic to use on the ground, such as pine needles (?) Can't remember right now and don't have time to look it up, but think they were acidic. Then, it is not something that will wash out of the ground, but stay... Do some research!

I used to work in a chemical plant. The difference between 2 very poisonous chemical compounds isn't very much. When had the acid, could add the alkalai to it (or vice versa). Poof: 7.0 and safe for swimming in - absolutely amazing! I know you can grow it there, just amend the soil properly. Later, Suzi :)

Excellent idea! Thanks!

Mobi - I've decided to plant Triple Crown blackberries. I called Nourse Farms where they sell 5 plants for 19.00. They had some good advice about how I can make them work in a zone 4b.

Thanks for letting me know about Doyle's. They are $15.00 per plant. However, they claim a lot higher production of fruit.

I didn't know Doyle's were so expensive. Let me know how your Triple Crown do. Mine are still small, I don't expect much growth until next year.

Mobi I saw your thread today and I hope your berries are producing for you. I have been picking blackberries the past week here in n.w. Missouri from our garden and I wish you could see how nice they are. I grow alot and my wife freezes them for later use and we make everything out of them. If you have some general questions about growing them maybe I can help. I have had great crops each year but wonder about your soil , zone, and moisture.

cuckoo4rblackbe - hope I spelled that right!

I have some questions about blackberries. I just planted 5 Triple Crowns today. Hope they do okay. It is over 100 degrees. They were bareroot. Seems a little late in the year for those.

I live in a zone 4b at best but we have a lot of winter wind that can decrease the temperatures. We get very little rainfall in the summer. Our soil is about a 7.0 pH but I have added a lot of organic matter added to it and the pH is a little lower than that.

I planted the berries on the north side of my house midway between the house and the fence where they will have some shelter from the wind and they should get full sun.

What special needs do these berries have concerning, pH, water requirements, pruning, fertilizer and such? How much care do I need to take to protect them in the winter--especially from wind? What is the best way to trellis them?

From what I've read (I have no true experience) is that you pick of the flowers (if it flowers) the first year so all the energy goes to the plant. In the fall (if you live in an cold zone) you place the stalks on the ground and mulch heavily. Next spring you start tying the stalks up on the trellis. Let flower and fruit. After fruiting, you cut back those stalks and let new ones grow. These you place on the ground in fall and mulch heavily and keep doing that everyyear. But please tell me if I am wrong.
Here's an excerpt from this website

http://www.texasgrown.com/pages/articles/blackberry.htm

"While the plant itself is perennial, the canes themselves are biennial. Fruit is produced on second year growth. New canes grow, berry-less, the first year and produce fruit in the second year. After you have harvested the last of the fruit in early summer you need to prune back, to the ground, all the canes that bore fruit that year. Do not prune the canes after September, as the buds are formed over the winter. Tip-prune the new canes when they are about 3-4 feet tall to encourage branching. Work the new side growth down the length of your trellis system."

Here's another on how many canes you need to leave to fruit each year.

http://www.oldhouseweb.com/gardening/garden/01701517.shtml

As I understand it (and this is the way I've done it), you cut back all canes to the ground at planting in the spring. This forces more root growth and will give you much more fruit the second year. Later in the summer new 1st year canes come up. You can top those if you need to. Need depends on growth type. There are erect, semi-erect and trailing types with the trailing being the longest canes. I have black satin and thornfree and they are both semi-erect. I have a two-wire trellis which is just 3 t-bars (for 6 plants) with two strands of wire at 3' and 5' from the ground. The first year canes are attached to the wires and topped just above the 5' wire. The following spring the the flower buds come out of the shoots that grow at each leaf node along the main stem and any side stems that grew the previous year. As the 2nd year canes are forming fruit there will be new 1st year canes coming up from the crown and around the plants. These will be where next years fruit grow so leave some of these. The ones that come up in away from the plant (in the aisles) can be dug out and used to start a new row. The 2nd year canes should be cut back to the ground after fruiting season and the first year canes attached to the trellis and topped if needed.

I have 2 vines?? canes of Triple Crown thornless blackberries and they produce far more than i can eat. i freeze some, give some to friends and still have lots of very large, very sweet berries. This is the fourth or fifth year for them in my garden. Here is a photo taken last evening after our nice 3 hour light rain. The only thing I do is irrigate, all summer, scatter Planters2 around the vines in spring and fall, and mulch now with old poplar tree shreds and some compost. DonnaS

And here is a close-up of a cluster of fruits. DonnaS

Rutholive they look great. I mulched mine with straw. Did you find that the yield has gone up over the years or has it been pretty steady?

kerry., If anything the yield is larger now, but since they produce so well i keep the vines pruned to a size that will let me walk around them inside the bird netting cage without walking too close to the vines. If they weren't caged the birds would eat all the berries. DonnaS

Donna, amen to the netting. I didn't build a cage for mine but draped the netting over the row and secured it at the ground with scrap 2x4s at about a 45 degree angle from the top. Only the berries on the very top are against the netting but the birds aren't bothering them either. I think the netting freaks them out and they leave the entire spot alone. There are plenty of Japanese beetles though so far they are mostly devouring the leaves. Next year I may try to make some netting out of fabric at Walmart. There is some very fine mesh stuff I have used on my smaller blueberries that would keep even the JB out. Once they are all pollinated keeping the bees out isn't an issue so that just might work.

I don't have mine netted at all, and collect a handful or 2 every, or every other day, as they ripen. There are tons there waiting to ripen and I don't think the birds have eaten them at all. I think those birds are all in the back eyeing the tomatoes though... lol. ~ Suzi :)

LooneyLinda I love growing these silly blackberries and I'm learning more and more about them. Everyone above has found some great info. about growing blackberries and thanks for sharing it!
Here's some general answers to your questions:
watering : don't let them dry up but don't keep there feet soaking
pH: around neutral or slightly acidic soil
( most nutrients absorbed)
fertilizer: a little balanced fertilizer (best of course is a soil test )
wind: slowing relentless winds with anything helps
protection: mulching, trellis,etc. helps against extreme weather
pruning: helps plants produce more (be conservative)
zones: generally zones 5 to 9 grow well(cultivars can change this)

Thanks to all of you for the advice. I hope I understand it well enough! Some of my plants have a cane that is flowering and another one coming from the bottom that just has leaves on it. If I follow your directions I should at least take off the flowers. OR should I cut that flowering cane to the ground and leave only the new sucker???

There are other canes that don't have any growth coming from the roots or bottom of the main cane. What do I do with them? Should I really cut them to the ground to encourage growth? That's a little scary, but I'll be brave if that's what I need to do.

The blackberry plants look a little sad, probably because they were bareroot and it is hot and dry now. Some of the leaves are yellow and crispy on the edges.

Do these same rules apply for red raspberries? I was told by the people I bought them from that I should NOT cut them to the ground. Some of them are flowering and have little raspberries. Some have suckers coming from the bottom and others don't.
I knocked one of the canes over with the hose and NOTHING has come up from the roots.

Linda,

When I planted mine last spring I cut the existing cane back to the ground. That allowed the plant to put its energy into growing a root system before it tried to support top growth. This late in the season in your area I would be a little leary of cutting both the flowering cane and the sucker all of the way back. You could possibly try cutting half of the plants all the way to the ground and just cuttting the flowering cane off the other half and see what your yield is next year. Perhaps someone from your area would know better.

Since you are in a colder zone than recommended for blackberries you might consider mulching this winter. I've read (but haven't tried) that you can lay the canes down and cover with brush and allow the snow to blanket them if you get enough. This will help to protect them against the extreme low temps.

I don't have any experience with this but I've read somewhere that winter damage doesn't always show up right away in the spring. The inside of the canes can be damaged and it isn't until fruiting that the damage is found. The plants start wilting from not being able to keep up with the water requirements of the ripening fruit. It said that one way to tell early on is to cut off a bit of one of last year's canes in the spring before the new growth gets started. If it is dark in the center then there is winter damage to that cane. Light pruning at that point can help relieve the water stress from happening later on as fewer berries will require less water. If the damage is too severe those canes will be lost but the roots should produce new canes for berries the following year.

Wow, this seems really strange to me. Blackberries (bramble) are Weeds in my yard! I do like to pick some, but prefer the black raspberries that the birds have planted around the place and I've been giving those more of a helping hand. As a matter of fact, I gave myself a nasty case of tendonitus (tennis elbow) trying to eradicate blackberry roots in an area where I was planting Jerusalem artichokes. I'm in zone 5 (central MA, honest, I have no idea whether its a or b). They're still coming up despite the fact that I've halfway crippled myself for the season! I have some of the nastiest acidic clay soil to be found and we're sitting on top of a lot of ledge to add to the problem. I'm sorry, but when I read about the way you're babying the plants to get them to survive, my eyes nearly bug out of their sockets. I CAN'T kill these plants! If any of you would like to try the wild, thorny variety of these berries, I'd be more than willing to try to dry some fruits and send the seeds to you.

McCool, lol it is all a matter of perspective isn't it?

McCool - Now you've scared me. Should I dig up the 7 plants I have been babying? I've been afraid they might not grow in a zone 4b. Hmmmm. Maybe I should NOT mulch them this winter.

No, don't dig them up. They may well be much more fragile and less liable to run rampant than the wild variety! I've no idea what the hybridized kinds are like. If I pull up the ones in my yard, they just keep sprouting back from the broken end of the roots (and the roots go on at least for several feet). When they first come up they're fairly easy to pull but they usually keep coming up all season in the same places. If you miss one and it gets established it will do its best to spread. I wouldn't be at all surprised though if the ones that humans have messed with have all they can do to survive and don't spread at all. Please let us know how you make out with them. If they don't survive and you want to try the "wild and wooly" ones, let me know!

There is a difference in wild and some tame varities with regard to spreading. Breeders have tried to discourage the rampant spreading of the wild type. I like a little spreading as it lets me share the wealth so to speak.

Linda, I would definately mulch this winter in zone 4b. I've read that some people actually lay the canes down in a blaket of mulch once they go dormant. The idea is to protect the first year canes as they contain the buds for next year's fruit. Sometimes you can't tell there is winter injury until they actually start producing fruit. I would definately search out local growers and pick their brain as to how they treat their canes. Each are is different climate wise and what works in KY may not work in UT.

It's hard to find a local grower that is a 4b. I live in a high mountain valley that is 4 miles away from a zone 6 where 99% of the people live in this county. I don't know anyone in my town of 800 who grows blackberries. Logan, Utah, which is 25 miles north is probably the same zone, but again, I don't know anyone who grows blackberries except this doctor I work with and he doesn't know what kind his are.

The blackberries I planted are Triple Crown thornless. I was going to plant Doyle's but they are quite expensive and apparently not as sweet as Triple Crown. The advantage to Doyle's is that they can even be planted in a zone 3.

Does anyone know anything about Boysenberries? A girl at a nursery told me she preferred their taste to blackberries. They are also a zone 5.

LooneyLinda I have read about boysenberries but don't know of anyone growing them around my area(n.w. Missouri) so I don't know to much about them. Seems like a boysenberry would grow were a raspberry or blackberry would grow though. Iv'e had good success with the Arapaho and Navaho Thornless Blackberries in my garden and limited success with Choctaw Blackberries(thorny).
This years producing canes will die out(by fall) while at the same time I have new vigorous canes coming up around the producing canes.These new canes will produce next years blackberries. This fall or when I have time I will go in and cut out these old (this years producing canes) dead off colored canes at the ground and burn to get rid of harboring insects and possible disease problems. I don't mulch but do think it is a good idea for some winter /moisture protection.
Are your Triple Crown Blackberries you are growing producing any berries now for you to try?

cuckoo