Is this adequate light for these seedlings?

I started with two lights over one seedling tray. I need more room now that I'm starting more seeds. Is this setup going to be okay? Will the seedlings grow lopsided? It doesn't seem the light coverage is adequate.

Alternative is to place the trays in this manner. Either way, some seedlings will not have lights on top of them.

Either way should be ok, just keep the light right on top of the seedlings.

Paul

Growing plants under lights can be very frustrating because it's all in the details and the details seem a bit over done. Many seeds do not require light to germinate. Others take lots. You need to find out which you have. Check out sites on the Thompson & Morgan Germination Database for details if it is not on the seed packet. Once the seeds have sprouted they need lots of light. The minimum is 1000 candle power (lumins).We are not going to be able to supply light as bright as the sunlight outside but by a bit of manupulation we can give the plants enough. For a first effort use one warm and one cool bulb. Later you can put more money into it if you think you want to get more involved. The bulbs need to be new. A bulb loses too much power to use it if it is a year or more old. Position the lights so they are no more than 6 inches above the top of the plants. It is better if it is closer. Raise the lamp as the plants get bigger. A very effective way to increase the light is to drape the growing shelves with reflective mylar. I aim the light at the mylar and keep the mylar as close to the plants as possible. You can save the mylar and use it for several years. It can be important to turn off the lights at night for 6 hours. Not all plants need the rest time but enough do that if you don't have a way to turn it off yourself, use a timer. I use an average of 48 4 foot bulbs in my propagation set up each year. Jessamine

This message was edited Jan 31, 2005 12:27 AM

I think I have all the necessary equipment, but I'm not sure its adequate. I may be nick picking my setup, but I want to make sure EVERY seedling has perfect opportunity for growth.

If you look at that first picture, you'll notice the gap between the lights. Is this going to cause those seedlings to grow sideways?

That was my question :)

I made a propagator out of scrap wood covered with aluminium kitchen foil. That way all of the light output of the bulbs is reflected downwards and you shouldn't get the bending of seedlings. You might be able to replicate that with a sort of tent stiffened with hardboard.

I'm not sure Darwin would have approved of your idea of every seedling having a perfect opportunity... natural selection can work in the favour of gardeners as well... you'll probably get more resilient plants if they have had to struggle a bit.

I would vote for the second set up. I put my flats longways with the lights and use 2 fixtures (4 bulbs) per 2 trays. This works better than when I was using 1 fixture for two trays....it works too, but you have to shuffle the trays to keep the plants growing straight...and they are still a little crooked. No biggie, unlesds you're selling plants...they straighten up after a couple days outside.

We have three 4' x 12' tables. Light fixtures are spaced 16" apart. (Shop lights.) Some of our bulbs are 10 years old. They are a cool white. No fancy stuff here. We have this set-up in the basement. We directed a heat duct to the area, then drapped black plastic around the whole thing to keep the heat in. Stays around 75º when the house is set at 68º.
We water our seedlig trays by setting them in a tray of water so they can assorb from the bottem. You do this every couple of days, as needed. When you move the trays, put them back in a different location on the bench, so they get light from a different angle. This will solve your bending & uneven growth.
One thing for people just starting growing seedlings, It is lots of work!
We have used this set-up for over 20 years.
Oh, by the way the seeds are started in a germanation chamber, then put under the lights.
Germination is a whole chapter by itself!
Best of luck,
Bernie

This all sounds great but a lot of work if you aren't able to physically do it. My way works I just pick the best window and hope for the best. Not very professional I know.

Honibee, if you get the results you need, no one has to know you don't have the most professional system. I have fibromyalgia and I occasionally miss a season because of it. I have had a bunch of homemade greenhouses and really serious glass houses and sometimes just a basement. Each fills a need. Be well, Jessamine
Osteole, If it looks like your plants are leaning one way or theother, turn the flat around.

Oki! Sounds simple enough

Countrygardens, I agree with you. Germination is one issue, seedling environment another. I do both under fluorescents on PVC light racks. Some of the seeds have to be with black plastic until germination occurs. Some need the light. Some don't seem to care. Once germination occurs, I mist the seedlings under plastic domed lids until they get big enough to remove the lids. During this time, I pull the flats from under the lights and turn them when I mist them. That way, they'll all get the same conditions.

Good looking set-up!
What date can you start planting in your garden?
We can do onions, radish & the like, starting April 1 to 15.
Tomatoes & peppers can't go in until Memorial Day.
Bernie

Our soil is workable by mid-May, but if we get a lot of rain, it's unwise to start digging or it will clump up. Our last danger of frost is generally Memorial Day (end of May). Peas, radishes, carrots can go in as soon as it thaws, but the soil stays so cold, they may just sit there until June 1 anyway. I start most everything indoors to get a head start.

I have been monitoring my seedlings every day.

Now the seedlings are growing well, they dry out quick! I haven't been misting, but rather setting the tray into fertilizer solution overnight. Then I replace them back under the lights in the alternate direction.

Watch out Weez...with all that light you've got blasting in the basement on those plants, you might soon have black helicopters hovering over your place with a loudspeaker blasting "Come out with your hands up!...We know you've got a big stash of contriband growing in there!" LOL Nah...I guess you'd have to generate lots of heat from grow lights to attractive attention and the flourescent lights don't put out that much...so you should be ok :)

Good way to get some new customers!

Be careful not to over fertilize. They are small plants & don't need a lot.
Bernie

LOL! Yes, two years ago, I had my plants out in one of our other outbuildings. A state trooper happened to see the haloid light beaming through the windows and stopped to ask what we were growing. My DH took him in to look at our beautiful tomato & pepper plants. He said he'd bring his wife out when we opened to buy some!

Yes, Bernie is right. Those seedlings really don't need additional nutrients while they still have healthy cotyledons. I think of those as the 'placenta' of baby plants. The clear plastic dome lids I use help to hold in the moisture during the germination period. I leave them on until the wispy seedlings get a bit bigger, then I prop the lid with a stick and gradually remove it over a couple days. At that point, I can begin to water them from the bottom.

When do you start to feed them Weezingreens? My seedlings always fail when they are in the "whispy" stage.


Edit to correct spelling - sheesh! :)

This message was edited Feb 9, 2005 12:58 PM

Hi, Mary. Ten to one, you've got dampening off. It happens just about the time you think things are going well. The seeds have germinated and the seedlings look great, then you look one day and they've all fallen over like a tornado in a forest. If you look closer, you'll see that the stems have broken down along the soil line.

It's an issue of keeping your starter mix sterile... that is, sterilized. Sterile soil usually refers to a mix of peat, vermiculite and perlite, sometimes grit. There are no nutrients added. In order to sterilize this starter, you need to buy it sterilized or heat it to 180 degrees F. for at least a half hour. I use a meat thermometer and roasting bags on a cookie sheet at about 200 degrees oven temp.

Wash all containers with hot bleach water, as well. Chamomile tea can help ward off the bacteria, as can a touch of hydrogen peroxide or bleach in the water. I've tried the chamomile with success, but you'll see some interesting information around the threads about the other two.

I don't add nutrients to my seedlings until some time after they have been transplanted to cell packs and established their roots. I transplant to potting soil with some nutrients included, so they are fine for awhile. Think of it as feeding your 2 month old baby a steak... not a good idea.

Hey there: Thought I would add another way to sterilize or pasturize the soil. The microwave does an excellent job. I use 1/2 gallon of soil and 1 or two cups of water in a Tupperware container with the lid loosely covering. Nuke on high for 10 minutes, seal the lid and allow to cool. Don't try to speed up the cooling. It is the duration of the high temps that will kill the microbes and bacteria that cause damp-off or grey mold. It also kills any weed seeds, insects and their eggs and will break down any clumps while it forces moisture under pressure into every particle of your planting media.
Before the advent of chemical sterilization, big nurseries used steam sterilization for their potting blends. I have toured nurseries where lines of huge boilers are still in place. It was one of the major operating expences in the business.
I know everyone thinks the bagged soils are sterile but I promise you they are not. I have been through the plants where the contents were blended to formula, bagged and sealed. The materials were not protected from the elements or insects before use and sometimes there were live insects visible in the mix and in the air. The seed germination mixes are better since they don't contain any compost but you will be replacing them with the potting mixes that do when you pot up to a larger size. After packaging the bags are stacked and stored, sometimes for months and often are outside under tarps. I have opened a new bag and found a live frog inside. Often I have purchased bags of soilless mix and found clumps of moss or very healthy weeds inside still growing quite happily especially grasses and garlic mustard. Big companies don't do their own blending. They farm it out to contractors whose plant conditions may vary from excellent to downright filthy. When the big companies orders are filled and there is material left over, they simply switch bags to another company. I didn't see it, but I imagine if they ran out of an ingredient required by a big company they would just keep on filling. Jessamine

A good source of mylar is the survivor blankets. Walmart sells them for $1.88. 4' x 7'. Just the right size for 4 foot lights. Then just unfold as much as you need. Jeanette

Awesome, thank you everyone!! I have a lot of seeds to start, but have lost so many in the past that I was hesitant to start.

I've read a lot about Chamomile tea and Hydrogen Peroxide, but didn't think about the soil to begin with.

Is there a stage where a seedling gets past the danger of dampening off? Some of my seedlings are up 4 inches, can it still happen?

That's a good question Kathy......One I would like to know!

The size is directly related to the plants you are starting. Some seedlings get big fast. I would think that 4" seedlings are probably going to be OK if they are not too close together and are getting good air circulation.

If the ambient air temps are warm enough the seedlings will benefit from moving air from a fan. The slight drying effect reduces the problem somewhat but the fungus is still there and can still cause problems. The more tender the plant the more vulnerable it is to rapid growth of the fungus but older plants can get it too. I just threw away a bunch of cut roses that had been left over from arrangements. The blossoms all had grey mold. The fan thing is something I try to mention in my talks. Plants grow stronger when they exercise just like people do. The flexing of the stem and leaves is like a person doing streches. Isn't it amazing what you can find out? Jessamine

I gotta share this - decided to only start a few new seeds, so I could recognize the seedlings in the garden (due to time & $$$!). I got a dozen jiffy pellets. When the first few sprouted much sooner than I expected I was in a tizzy on how to get them enough light (I didn't think this thru a'tall). I am so proud of myself - I put thread thru both sides of a plastic baggy & tied it to my kitchen light - put the seedlings/jiffy pellets in the baggy just like a hammock - poked a few holes so water could seep out - voila!! They are thriving up there, it's amazing!! :) (And no cops will be knocking on my door, hee hee!)

Being creative is a big plus when it comes to gardening, Tam. It sounds like you've to it figured out!