What grows in the dark, practically?

I have one corner of my yard, which has 8' fence on two sides with trees above. No direct light at all gets to this corner. I have a number of Gingers and a Persian Shield about 5 feet away from this corner, that are all doing okay and seem to get enough light. I tried to plant a split-leaf philodendron and some ferns (cinnamon ferns, I think) and they all but died (which could possibly also be due to my dog lifting his leg! Although he lifts his leg on other split-leafs in the yard and those are doing fine.). I had a Tasmanian Tree Fern about five feet away as well but I think the dog peed that to death! (Bummer, 'cause that was a pricey plant!) As you can see, I'm in Zone 8b and will attempt anything up to Zone 10 plants. (I can move 'em to the greenhouse.)

Can anyone recommend some plants that will grow relatively tall (to fill the space) and barely need any light at all? I'd prefer natives, but I'll plant anything there if I can get it to live! I'm also big on flutterby and hummer attractors, but again, beggars can't be choosers!

I'll try to remember to post a picture of the area in question, later on.

My other idea was to fill this space with a water feature or statuary or something that doesn't need any light! Your suggestions will help me decide if that's the best solution. Thanks!

Ok, here's two pictures of the Dark Corner of Death(tm).

Well, that was the first one.

When I took this next one, I discovered my Persian Shield is blooming! I had no idea.

No responses yet? I sure wish this forum had more traffic. It is hard to tell by the picture, but I would think that you would have a lot of options. Florida is a bit warmer than me, so I am not sure what grows well in your area.

I was recently on a search for shrubs to fill a shady corner of my property and ended up planting the following: Oakleaf Hydrangea, Rhododendron, Azalea, and Fosters Holly. I also planted the area with perennials such as hostas, astilbes, and ferns. Other shrubs that were on my short list were Bottlebrush Buckeye (Aesculus parviflora) and Sweetshrub (Calycanthus floridus).

Good luck!

- Brent

Well, thanks! I wish this forum had more traffic as well.

What you can't see in that picture are 4 autumn ferns surrounding a split-leaf philodendron. Since those pretty much died down to mere sprouts, I'm not so sure how well a Hydrangea or Azalea would do -- even those need a little sun. Hostas might work -- I wonder if anyone has experience with them in an area that never really sees the sun. Clearly, ferns won't make it.

I'm thinking: water feature. Then I won't have to worry about why the fountain won't grow!

Dogzilla... I have good luck with hostas and caladiums in real deep shade. I normally start my caladiums in about Februrary and put them out after the last frost. I've put pots of new geunie, (sp?) impatiens in there as well as impatiens and they did ok, the new geunie did real well. In FL, you should do well with some caladiums and they have some pretty good lively colors too, to brighten up the place. I'm going to try some coleus there this year also.

Actually, I do have some caladiums in other parts of the backyard -- all dormant right now of course. Shade-loving coleus might do okay...

I hate impatiens. Personal thing, not that there's anything wrong with 'em. I just find myself watering them every single day when no other plant needs water... I let plants like that die. I'm too lazy to baby a delicate plant when there are so many that are drought tolerant.

Does anyone think mother-in-law tongue would work? I'm hoping for something with some height.

Aucuba (particularly the variegated like 'Gold Dust', which brighten up any shade) grow fast, can get 10' tall. Coprosma, camellias, fuchsia, hydrangea, holly, leucothoe, pieris, nandina, some rhamnus, sarcococca and evergreen vibernum for other shrubs.

Solanum jasminoides, potato vine, grows in shade altho it may not bloom as much.

Japanese maples, podocarpus and palms would work if appropriate for your zone.

Bulbs/groundcovers: Aconitum, arum, geonia, bletilla, bergenia clivia, epimedium, some geraniums, hellebores, gentian, heuchera, iris, lamium, liriope, lobelia, oxalis, mimulus, polemonium, tradescantia, senecio hybrids, trillium, vinca, viola and pansies.

To get ANYTHING established well, fence it off from your dog and set up a soaker hose or drip system, and mulch. Even in the heat of CA summer I never water more than once a week, and for established plants it's once every two weeks. This assumes you have good, well-draining soil though.

All great suggestions....one of my all time favorite shade arae plants with a tropical look is Cast iron plant Aspidistra elatior
http://www.monrovia.com/PlantInf.nsf/0/cebb804357c53fc48825684d00705713?OpenDocument

Actually, I have a huge clump of cast iron plant about 15 feet away from this dark Corner of Death (TM). I don't care for it much because it's sort of a "junk" plant in this area. Everyone has tons of 'em... like dandelions in Ohio.

I would rather gnaw my own foot off than plant nandina. It's listed in Florida among the exotic invasive pests that should be avoided. Berries are pretty and the birds like 'em but it takes over here.

Japanese maple will NOT work in that corner. You have to realize this corner gets no direct sun at all. Ever. (I have a beautiful Jap. Maple in the front yard that neighbors comment on.) Many of the plants listed above there require a little sun...

I might try some trillium, but they're awfully low. I have to look up a lot of what else is on that list -- too many things I haven't heard of on it. Voila requires a little light -- works in a dappled corner of the backyard, but not in the Dark Corner of Death. If a split leaf philodendron dies -- and autumn ferns -- due to lack of light, you can't suggest anything to me that needs part sun or dappled light. Geraniums -- will never work.

I will take the suggestion to fence the dog away. Might be able to keep an Australian Tree Fern alive if I can keep the dog pee off it. (Or was that a Tasmanian Tree Fern? It was a big-ass fern from down there somewhere...)

Okay, just a suggestion...........................

I appreciate it. I realize I'm sort of asking for the moon so I can shoot it down. I'm looking for some major out-of-the-box creative ideas... or maybe photos of gardens people have done in Dark Corners of Death (tm)...

dogzilla... drive up to my farm this spring.
I've got a few hundred things that would work in that area.

How about a nice stone patio? You could have potted plants that you cycle in and out of the sun to brighten it up.

Where, exactly, is Willacoochee? I might drive up there just so I can say the name of your town over and over again. I like words like that. "Sopchoppy" is one of my favorite town names, for example.

Stone patio is an excellent suggestion. There used to be a decrepit shed in that spot, so the ground is fairly level already. Perhaps I can work a fountain or pond or something in there...

I'm surprised that the ferns and phylo die. Are you sure there is not a problem with the soil? Try fish tail fern; it seems to grow everywhere. Lots of luck with DCD.

Nancy Lee

I am NOT sure there's not a problem with the soil. I did mention there used to be a shed in that spot right? The soil feels mushy when I walk around in that corner. It looks like there's fish tank gravel (A lot of it, presumably there to stabilize and level the ground for shed structure) in the soil, but I don't know what it is. (Clay colored). Otherwise the soil looks like normal North Florida sand with a little clay here and there. Of course, I haven't had it tested, and that is an option, as I have a soil testing kit from my extension office.

I guess you think maybe I should test the soil, eh? Not a bad idea at all.

You have nothing to loose! Good Luck.

Aucuba might be a good suggestion. I have one right by my front door where it is very shady and gets no direct rainfall. The previous owners did not seem to be interested in gardening, so I would not be surprised if the thing did not get any supplemental water for years (and I only started watering that area after I put in some ferns and hostas). It was doing so well that I had to cut it way back. I still have to figure out if it is a male or a female in need of a pollinator. I have never seen a berry or a flower.

In any case, let's not resort to gnawing off appendages! But if you are looking to fill that corner with invasive exotics, I have plenty of English Ivy that I could send to you!

- Brent

Gah! English Ivy!

That's right up there with the ubiquitous sword ferns, asiatic jasmine, and nandina...

(Actually I have some that I intend to root around the yard to add some color and interest to the fence.)

I'll look into the aucuba.

Ha Ha Brent, that is exactly what I was going to recommend. English Ivy will grow in 95% shade and dog pee will only fertilize it! A bit going up the fence would make a fountain/patio area look a bit better, but regular vicious pruning would be required regularly from now on.
If you want to try an impatiens that is different and actually needs to dry out some, get 'Jungle Gold'. It blooms well in shade.
http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/66871/index.html
Another summer plant you might try is Plectranthus 'Mona Lavender'.
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/54904/
There is probably a palm you could use there, but I am not experienced enough with that to recommend one.
Good luck finding something exotic there in FL where exotics seem the norm!

Illicium floridanum is a large evergreen shrub that will grow in deep shade. There are other illiciums also, but since they are not hardy in my zone, I can't remember the name. They are natives. The floridanum lilkes moist to wet, but will take drier soils once established.

How about Cephalotaxus (Japanese Plum Yew)?

Susan K

I do have ferns in no-sun areas. Japanese painted fern for instance. Mondo grass is a fabulous ground cover for a big shady area - especially since you have a dog. And you don't have to mow it. It's practically indestructible. Also, creeping mint - now don't go weird on me. It's not invasive. But if you're having trouble growing things back there, runner violets are great. You might be able to go for something a little invasive - easily controlled, but "vigorous". Can you grow Camellias in your zone? Some of them can grow in what seem like black holes. Hellebores are great, but if your dog is a plant muncher, not a good idea. Heavenly bamboo can grow basically in the dark and it comes in a lot of beautiful colors. And Nandina Domestica would take care of some of that fence. (you may not like it but it has great berries in the fall, and it's not bare fence :-) )Ligularia, particularly the "spotted leopard" variety can grow there and Yesterday today and tomorrow. Brunnera "Jack Frost" can brighten up any corner. Correa comes in pink and white. It loves to grow in the dark. And what about fuschia and begonia?

And don't give up on Japanese Maples (see photo). This is a small threadleaf - and yes, with ferns. This area gets no sun. It's bordered by Redwood trees on two sides and a gazebo on the other, leaving it's northern side exposed. I also have a "Bloodgood that is doing fine. Another thing that I've had success with is flowering maple. I know, it's not supposed to but......You're right though, the hydrangeas won't bloom if there isn't enough sun. I think that Chinese Mayapple likes the shade - they have huge leaves, and the gingers. If you're worried about a hosta that might grow in total shade, ask a hosta specialist. ( Some cultivars tolerate shade better than others. If fact, some want it.) There are lots in the Watch Dog. And then buy the hosta from them.

A stroll through Plant Delights web site is always a pleasure. They are full of shade loving plants, and they are very helpful. Expensive, but you do get what you pay for.

http://www.plantdelights.com/

Two suggestions are high up. Go ahead and get the soil tested. Everything I've suggested likes acid soil. And then go to the pet shop and get urine neutralizing pills for your dog. You might as well take care of that before you invest in a lot of new plants. (LOL)

So now you have Camellias instead of Heavenly Bamboo. They're blooming in the nurserys here now. Hope it's a help.

What a beautiful corner! I'm thinking foliage plants....This is like an outside living room =). Ferns, hostas, caladiums...I see parties happening here.

I have dogs, too, and they pee one corner to death. Thinking of getting this STAKE that's supposed to make them pee in one spot.

Please keep us posted.

Annapet

This message was edited Feb 11, 2005 11:28 PM

Good morning!. Thought you might like some idea exactly how dark this corner is. These are princess flower plants, ferns, a hosta (light ones like these do better in more sun), mondo. You can see the Ligularia (it's spotted, looks like dappled sunshine) it's evergreen. Can't say enough good things about it. There are some azaleas back there that really don't bloom but the foliage is good. You will be surprised what will grow in the shade.

As far as the dog sticks go, they only work if you go out with your dogs and re-potty train them. It's a pain. Unless you're willing to forgo the corner they've chosen, you might as well give them the pills. It doesn't hurt them. There are some products that will help them avoid an area, but if their habits are already established, well it's tough. How big are your dogs? Have a picture?

You might dig well below that "aquarium gravel" layer and see what it is. That layer might also be usable as a base for a pond liner or some other construction project.

One of my favorite ferns is Motherfern. You can see the Heuchera (dark purple) in flower. It's next to a Japanese painted fern. A lime green cultivar is on my list for the spring. There are a lot of nice grasses that grow in the shade (see foreground). A pair of birds build their nest in this tall grass in the foreground every year. It's only a problem if my dogs get too close. Their little though and can come within inches and not notice the birds. I think that they lost their sense of just about everything when they made their noses short. But they are still cute. I've just had to revamp my garden two years ago. There are more pictures of my garden at:

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/482325/.

You'll see that I'm still struggling with a dark corner too. And I have one with a Walnut tree over it. I have been able to plant things like Hydrangeas on the outerlimits of the treeline though. And the Camellias will grow even there. They don't seem to mind the toxicity too much.

I can't remember how many of the really shady pictures are there. I'll go remind myself. :-)

The good thing is that you have a blank slate. Once you get that ground in order, it's going to be really easy to take care of it. One thing that always really works is a patio. You might want to look at Trunnels garden. She lives in Texas - zone 8b. I think that you can get a really good idea of what can be done with deep shade in her garden. And she has a great patio.

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/452273/

A water feature is always fun. And I think you are going in the right direction to think hardscape first. If you've decided that you are going to use it as an entertainment area, then lay out a path and a patio with an old hose. Move that around some and see what you can come up with. Shrink your planting areas that way. Good "bones" are what gardens are made of. Think of this place as a garden "room". I don't think that anyone is more gifted at this than John Benoot. His place is huge, but you can get an idea of how he's divided and conquered space in what was originally 3 acres of farmland.

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/481355/

Have a good weekend!

Wow! I haven't checked in on this thread in a while -- what a lot of great advice! Thanks. Regarding the photo above. What's planted in that dark, dark corner, way above, by the fence? What I see in the foreground of that photo is dappled shade and I can deal with that. (I have that everywhere.) In the background of that photo, there's a Dark Corner of Death (tm). Whatcha got growin' there?

To anyone following this, you should know that I am trying to stick to Florida natives as much as possible. On the other hand, I've had several recommendations for the Japanese painted fern, which might be okay.

There's two small 20-pound Boston Terrors. Check out my threads in the Pets forum for photos. (There's enough of these dogs on this message board; no reason to post new photos.) Only the one is male and tends to hit certain corners more frequently than others.

First step is soil testing: I need a weekend at home with only yard work to do and I'll get right on that! Last frost date is rapidly approaching here so I sort of need to get it in gear!

I just wanted to let you know that I have 4 Oakleaf Hydrangeas on the north side of my house. One gets limited morning sun and the opposite one gets limited afternoon sun. The two in the middle get no sun at all. All four of them are the same height (with no pruning), and they all flower beautifully. Your corner would be a perfect spot to include this great native.

I may try a climbing hydrangea yet. They are only supposed to go to us to zone 8 - but what the heck, it's worth a try. Some zone 8 plants can suffer in the heat.

Near the fence, under the redwood trees are tree ferns, other ferns, a camellia, azalea, mondo grass, and creeping violets.

Here is "Hardenbergia" blooming on an East facing fence, in the shadow of the house on the other side. It's blooming now. Not a fast grower and it needs support, but it's evergreen and blooms at a great time of year. It's susceptible to spider mites- it's only downfall. And I have to admit that I use a systemic on it. (shame on me).

That's pretty! It would look nice next to the Persian Shield, would cover the fence... do the flutterbys like it? We may have a winner! (Toss in some ferns and fence off the corner so boypup pees on the fence and not the plants! I'm on to him!)

This vine is in a raised planter next to the fence. It would solve many problems for you. First, boypup (who I looked up - they are really cute) couldn't reach the vine. Secondly, it makes the soil problem go away if you used new top soil for the planter. In fact, you might consider using raised beds all around the fence, or at least berms to give your plants a better foothold.

Here's an Hellebore. It will hold it's flowers far into the spring. If you want a real Hellebore rush though see Sunfarm. With a caveat. Their reviews on the watchdog are mixed. Mostly concerns about packing not being adequate. I'm going to order some - when I figure out which ones!

http://sunfarm.com/index.phtml

This was taken in July - the Hardenbergia had been cut back some so we could get it tied up better. You can see better in this picture how the raised bed works. There are azaleas, Hostas, Liatris, and on the right, sasanqua camellia. The big Mimosa trees are gone now. I lost them when they were graded wrong. :-( I've replaced them with three Betula "Crimson Frost". We'll see how they do.

Since I'm on a slope, I have a lot of raised beds and I find it's a great relief to a landscape. So if you use raised beds or berms, I think that it could be a huge answer to your problem. If you have to use block or some other material you don't like the look of (which I had for years), I find that creeping fig can cover most everything. It needs a haircut every year or the leaves get too big and it will continue to grow if you don't stop it, but I find that it's easy to keep in control. Actually, that is something else that would grow on your fence too. I do prune all of my vines at the beginning of every month during the summer, or they always get out of hand.

Here's a link to images of creeping fig.

http://images.google.com/images?q=creeping+fig&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search

This message was edited Feb 14, 2005 11:16 AM

Here is a nandina you can live with. I believe that it is "harbour Dwarf." It stays red all year long, and it only gets 12-18 inches high. This is in total shade - it also grows in total sun. It's a great accent in the garden.

I have one of these corners, too, dogzilla. Half of the area gets about 2 hrs. of morning sun and the other half gets absolutely no sun at all. I'm laying some large stones down for a "patio" bench area. Behind the bench, in the very darkest dark, I'm going to try Leatherleaf Viburnum. It can be trained as a small tree and several sources list it as doable in complete shade. White blooms will look nice in such a dark spot, and the vertical component is a major plus for me :) Post pics when you get underway!!!

Hugs :)

I will. Good luck to you too!

Assuming you can keep the dogs away, you can, as pointed out above, use Japanese maples. There are hundreds of different varieties and many MUST have shade or they will burn. Particularly good in these deep shaded areas are the laceleaf types. They are 'understory' trees that only grow in the shade of bigger trees. What you don't want are the ones like Emperor 1 that will take, and love, direct sun all day long.

Rhaphiolepsis indica (Indian hawthorn) is amazingly tough, I have one that survived a large cestrum smothering it for over two years! Some of the branches are 2' long but only have a few leaves on the ends to keep the poor thing alive. It was literally being sat on by the cestrum, but managed to survive anyway. I finally dug it out and put it somewhere uncrowded, figured it has proven itself a survivor of the highest order, hee hee.

I have similar problem with my dogs, and the area they travel through and use to "dispose" is most of my yard. I solved the problem with using large containers which lift everybody up and out of the reach of the pee. Unfortunately, even raising the beds didn't completely keep my darling dogs out. It made things much easier for me, maybe you can try that. The added bonus is the beautiful decoration that the pots add to the corner. My ostrich plumes look downright tropical that way, and with some caladiums, and impatiens, forget about it! LOL

I've finally had a moment to look up some of the suggestions you've all been so kind enough to post here.

I'm liking Illicium Floridanum a lot -- Florida Anise. It's native and listed as a protected, threatened species. AND, I've seen it at my local native nursery. It will probably go in the corner and be the major vertical plant. It should look pretty good, as that's sort of the woodsy/woodland part of the yard. I also think there's a flutterby that likes it as a feeder plant for the caterpillars.

The Plectranthus also looks good. I could see about 3 of those around the Florida anise. I could put a couple climbing hydrangeas on the sides...

Fill it out with some japanese painted ferns and maybe some trilliums or voilets -- if they stick out far enough, they might get enough light to bloom sometimes. I'll have English Ivy climbing the fence in various places around the yard, since it's so easy to propagate. I also plan to hang baskets of spider plants around the perimeter of the fence, in intervals between "rooms" or areas of the yard. (I'm putting in an outdoor shower near the house for post-gardening rinses!)

To respond to some other questions: I can grow camellias and I have a bunch of 'em as a screen on the north side of my house. See my "Weird Things Your Pets Eat" thread to find out why I'm not planting any more camellias in the backyard. (My dog eats the flowers. He finds them quite tasty and appealing.)

I don't like begonias -- too thirsty. And, for some reason, I have trouble with fuscia, although I love them and have tried several times. I haven't seemed to have been able to find the right microclimate for them, or the right amount of watering because I always kill them, almost immediately. I'd like to hang some in baskets around my pergola (no photos available for that yet), but I have to figure out how to keep 'em alive first.

Finally, I don't know what palms you all grow in the shade, but I don't know of one that would do well in that deep shade. Maybe saw palmetto, but that's a favorite habitat of the Eastern diamondback rattlesnake, who I will NOT be inviting into my yard... ;>) They're sort of scrubby looking and not very attractive anyway. They belong in the woods, not in my yard.

Oh, and doss? The creeping fig is planted UNDER my front porch and is covering my entire house. It's like a Twilight Zone episode where the plants just take over: soon you won't be able to see my house at all. No invasives, please! LOL.

Many of the other plants suggested simply don't appeal to me for aesthetic/personal taste reasons and/or because they're not natives, but I greatly appreciate all of these suggestions. (Anything for which the name starts with "Japanese" I will not be planting. I have a ton of Asian plants in the front yard and am trying to do a mostly-native backyard habitat.) They've given me lots of ideas and I've learned a lot looking up some of these plants. Thanks to everyone!

I'll be back to post photos once I've gotten the soil tested and built the walkway/stepping stones that will meander through that area.

Sorry about the creeping fig. That's why I prune my vines monthly in the summer. I think that most of them are invasive.

If you get creeping violets - another one that can invasive - they will grow in VERY dark shade.

You're probably growing the wrong fuschia. The "Gartenmeister" is much more hardy than the species. And the hummingbirds love it. I don't know if you looked up Correa - but it's called Australian Fucshia. It'll grow under the house too.

http://images.google.com/images?q=correa+plant&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search

It's a native to Australia and the ones I have are a paler pink than these flowers, but evidently there are quite a number of cultivars. This one is VERY easy to keep in control and it will make a 1 foot tall by 3 foot wide plant or a 3 foot tall by three foot wide plant depending on how you grow it. I do have it growing under a cantilevered part of my house.

I do remember now that your dogs like the camellias. Sorry about that.