I checked my scales today and found what I initially thought were roots, but on closer examination seem to be leaflets sprouting UP from the tiny bulblets. What should I do? The scaling instructions talk about putting the bulblets through a cold phase after 2 months or so of warm and then planting into medium after that. They describe leaf formation AFTER the cold phase. Did mine skip that? Should I just plant them out even if there are no roots? Running off to the websites and books....
Yep,
Time to pot them up. I find it better to plant them scales and all, without pulling the babies off the scale. Reason is, ... no roots yet.
Don't let them get too wet, but don't let them dry out either.
Fertilize them every 2 weeks or so with a weak fertilizer. Let them grow and grow. If they get too tall and lanky, chop them off, leaving an inch or so to grow up again. If they die back, then put the pots in baggies and into the frindge for 7 or 8 weeks or so.
Try not to let this happen till after the holidays, when you MAY have room in your fridge. vbg
It's exciting, isn't it.
Inanda aka Ginny
Wow.... looks like they're thriving -- you must be doing something right.
Do let us know what you find out!
Great job esw!!! How long did it take for you to get them this far?? I haven't checked mine yet....maybe I better do that today.
Last night the server was really slow so I didn't get back. ..
langbr, These were started on 11/7 and 11/14. Most of the scales just have small bulblets - the largest is about 1/2 the size of a lentil. Some of the ones with sprouts were trumpets. I read in the McRae Lily book that the trumpets sometimes do not need the cold period to sprout.
inanda, you are a wealth of knowlege. Unfortunately I am out of the house tonight and the babies will have to wait until tomorrow. Would planting them in trays be ok? Do I need to place them in cold to slow them down or would that hurt them. Should I put all of the ones that are forming bulblets into the cold? (still looking for the answers)
Thanks!
No o, don't put any of them in the cold. Let them grow under lights. There is lots of time before the spring to vernalize them.
A flat would be OK but a pot would be better. Deeper for better root growth. You can put all the scales of the same kind in the same pot.
inanda aka Ginny
Update...so far so good. These are the ones that sprouted that I put under lights. There are a whole bunch more without sprouts but with bulblets that are in the cold....
Thanks for all the great advice!
The only lilies you need to give a cold treatment is really orientals. Asiatics, trumpets, etc can all be grown directly under growlight without a cold treatment.
Thanks for the info. I hadn't noted that there was a difference between the Orientals and the other lilies. I will have to check and see which are where. If the Oriental has been in the warm,should I cool it? For how long?
Congrats esw! I had always wanted to try this!
Normally, orientals would form bulblets (and cotyledons) below ground. You would leave the baggie with the scales for about 3-4 months to produce pea sized bulblets. You would then transfer the bag to fridge (crisper drawer) for another 3 months. Finally you could plant outdoors in spring (or put back under growlight).
esw - I've got a question about scaling the bulbs, when you removed the scales, did you get all the way down to the bottom of the bulb (I don't think I'm wording that right)...when I tried to scale mine, they did not break away all the way to the bottom, but about 3/4 of the way down. They are orientals and have been in a baggie of moistened peat/perlite, on top of the frig since Dec 5th, they have not produced any bulblets yet, so I didn't know if it just hasn't been long enough (based on kdjoergensen's comment above) or if I didn't scale the bulb properly.
Thanks,
Vicki
Vicki, you need you cut the bulb all the way down by the basal plate. The meristem tissue (reproductive tissue) is located there.
Take a look at the picture below. The scales are cut all the way through the basal plate. One of them even has some roots on them. The white portion at the bottom is the meristem tissue (basal plate).
You can insert a short sturdy knife between a scale and the bulb and press straight down through the basal plate (a piece of missing basal plate is ok for the bulb). You can also go "from the other end). Use the knife and cut from the basal plate and up (like you are peeling an apple with a knife) but cut through the basal plate and then pull the scale(s) which happen to be attached to the piece off.
I like to dip the scales in a 10% bleach solution (9 parts water to 1 part chlorax bleach) to disinfect it before use.
P.S. If I buy lilies, I like to buy an extra bulb of the one I want to scale, and cut this one up for scaling. First I remove all the outer scales so only very healthy, undamaged scales are available. If the bulb is very dehydrated, I like to soak it in a tup of water for 30 minutes before scaling. On some occations, I have even planted the bulb for a few months to get them plump and nice. When I scale the bulb, I them cut the entire bulb up in individual scales. I make a few different bags in case one should fail.
This scale show the result after about 2 months. Notice how they have bulblets with roots.
The bulb was Oriental Stargazer.
That's just the information I needed!! Thanks so much, for the pics too, I work better when I can see what I'm supposed to be doing. I think the ones I did are destined for the trash. I just hate it too, because for some reason this 1 lilie that I only have 1 of and don't know the name of, hasn't produced any baby bulbs like the other orientals. Maybe I'll try again in a year or so, don't want to disturb it again so soon.
Thanks again for that info!
Vicki
Wow, thanks for all the good wishes and great advice! I guess I got lucky just peeling the scales off from the outside-most inward....all but one had enough basal plate to make bulblets, even though there wasn't much that I could identify as 'basal plate.' A few made small bumps that turned into bulblets in a couple of weeks, most within a month had identifiable bulblets and by 2 months had roots/shoots. The martagon lily I scaled (only one scale as it was so small) took a lot longer than most to make a bulblet.
I mixed a pinch of anti-fungal into the vermiculite/peat in the bags, but did nothing else to ward off badness. A couple of scales slimed out, out of >50. I might try the bleach mix next time.
Thanks for the tips kdjoergensen....
Good luck sadiemaewebb!
Thanks for the good luck esw! I've got a few orientals and asiatics on order, I think I will try to take a few scales from some of them to make sure I can do it right before tackling that one I really want to do.
I do a very wicked thing with big scales. I slit them along the edges to get more bulblets. Works too.
Ginny where all her marties are still in their baggies in the fridge.
Very wicked! How many do you typically get when you do that, as opposed to when you don't?
Where do you make the cuts? Which edges? Sounds intriguing....
This is great information!! thanks so much. I tried scaling and got some little bulblets, but how deep do you plant them? I think I may have planted them too deep. do you leave any of the bulblet sticking out or bury the whole thing? I have some in the fridge now... I am hoping I did this right...
When I pot them up, don't bury them too deep. They will pull themselves down to the right depth. I do cover them though with soil.
Cutting all around edges of large scales. You get lots and lots of babies, maybe 7 or 8 or more. Sorry that I don't have any photos of them. Will take pix next time I do this.
Had a disaster -I think - with some hem seeds. Didn't check them often enough so they all germinated in their bottle of water and peroxide. When I went to plant them the tiny threads all dropped off. Planted them anyway, to see what - if anything happens. The roots were still there so am hoping. Only Stella D'oro seeds so not too much loss.
Martie babies in fridge are getting larger and larger. Yippee. Days getting longer. All we need now is snow to melt without flooding and no late cold cold after snow is gone.
Inanda
Thanks, Inanda, I am going to check them, and if it isnt too late, put them just beneath the surface... i am dying to see what they are doing in there anyway. I have had them in the fridge for about 2 or 3 weeks, I think... need to check my journal... anyway, this is fascinating.. I am learning so much.. thank you all for sharing with us...Starr
I finally got some scales to make babies! Would it be better to pot them up until fall rather than putting them directly into the garden? They are Black Beauty, L. regal 'Album" and Oriental Acapulco. The Black Beauty and regal have green sprouts already.
Thanks!
Vicki
Vicki -
Here's a link to a very informative article on bulb scaling written by Kenneth Joergensen (most certainly our very own kdjoergensen!!). This article recommends placing them in pots.
http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/propagation_seed_starting/105602
Thanks : ) That was a great article!
kd ~ in what medium do you like to plant your bulblets?
Bumping.
Updates please.
Inanda
Hi Inanda,
My babies are doing great! They are still in pots in front of the window, I'm going to move them outside in the next week or so. Also, I'm going to take a few scales from some lilies I just received yesterday....this is almost addictive as buying them :-)
Now I've just got to figure out where to put them all for the winter...
Hi!
Just waiting for the weather to warm a little more...my light box and available counter space by the windows are stuffed with 23/24 pots with various sprouting lilies! Some have put up more sprouts multiple single leaves and some have put out what looks like the start of a new plant...more adult foliage though only 2-3 leaves off of a more substantial stalk.
Unbelievable! The only one not sprouting growth is a single scale from a martagon which I am about to put back into the fridge for a month or so to see if that will kick start it. I am at work tonight or I'd send a picture of the developing jungle.
Sue
P.S. any hints on separating the bulblets/plants ---should it be done now or later when they are larger?? any tricks?
More updates...
Lily babies are up and growing in a tangle... some >12' high, some died back and resprouted real leaves (not just the singles) some are a bit sunburnt...all in all doing great.
One problem....the supposed lightfast marker was not...will have to wait until they bloom to ID, though I do know which I started 20+ varieties (all lovingly labled with the date/variety/etc) so it is a bit of a crapshoot as to which is which....go figure.
[I know, I know Ginny, BURY the tag! I shoulda listened! ;) ] The marker was fine under lights in the house, but faded rapidly outside (written on plastic knives stuck in the dirt)
One question for the experts....can they stay in these pots over winter or will the bulbs get too big??
Good stuff (I'll ignore the name prob).
You can keep them in their pots over the winter. Just make sure that you bury the pots below the pot rims. You do not want any of the pot(s) to show. The pot may conduct cold to bulblets. You don't want tht.
I always cover my pot babies with leaves or grass or something, and then soil on top. Mark with a stick at each end of row or around the grouping.In the spring when you want to line out your babies it is easy to dig up the pots.Brush off the soil down to the (whatever) plant material so then you know the level of soil to leave in your pot.
One of my little tricks.
If you have time/space, you should be able to line them out now, still lots of time before winter. They can quite happily stay in their pots though. I would bury the pots now so they will not dry out with wind and sun.
Check your lilium daily to collect lily beetles in Mass. plus turn over leaves and get rid of egg clusters.
Inanda
Oops, sorry Inanda.
Thanks for the advice re overwintering. That sounds like a great idea and not too hard with the small pots. Some of the bulbs I received late last year, I planted in large pots 2-3 -5 gallon sizes and put into a large bin that was lined with insulation boards.... they all seemed to come through well - a couple of the pots had many very young lilies/bulblets.
I have seen no sign of the @$%#@ beetles....have been watching closely.
Sounds good - the bin. I did that when living near the Yukon border in Prince George, BC. That was so I could get at the orientals. I would dig the pots in Feb, put them in garage to thaw - drip and general mess - then they would start growing under lights there.
Inanda
I can't imagine digging the holes for the larger pots...and then trying to get them out in the spring....This was no fuss no muss...very neat and easy.
