seedling issues!

ok, this is going to be a true novice question (aka dumb :)). whenever i plant seeds and get them to grow seedlings, i always have issues getting them to grow past the first set of seedling leaves. a lot of the time, they die or stay at this height/stage for a long time and then die.
i just bought a grow lamp, and i'm getting a lot of vertical growth, but it seems to be taking them a while to start their second set of leaves. it seems like most people's plants start to fill out with leaves a lot sooner than mine do. hopefully the grow light will help my problem, but is there anything else im doing wrong?

Warmth can be a contributing factor this time of year, you don't say what seeds you're starting, it might be a little bit too early for them. Do you have the trays on a warm surface?

yea i guess i've always kinda of ignored the whole timing thing, hoping i could just love them into life. some of what im starting is foxglove, runner bean, dill, crepe myrtle, aschlepia, and flax. i have them in my bedroom which stays at about 75 right now, and they're all fairly close to a grow light which puts out some heat- you think even more? i'm definitely open to change! and if its the time of year...maybe next year i'll be more patient? hehe.

Sorry, I didn't explain myself properly (mea culpa), too much warmth can be almost as difficult as too little. Cooler growing temps do tend to keep the seedlings closer to the ground and makes them a little stronger early on. Of course, it's a delicate balance as to what is too cold and too warm! Same with too little warmth, if you have above heat (rather than below heat) they will grow toward that.

It won't do them much good to have a cooler temperature now. Just stick with it, if they've got this far, they will grow. Don't worry too much about it, for some people it works just fine as it has for you.

One thing I do with my flats is turn them around every day. I do this mostly because I not only have a flourescent light over them, but have them in a window, so they tend to go toward the sunlight. I do this with my pots outside, during the summer, as well. (helps prevent them from looking lop-sided).

Do you bottom water? That also helps.

Art,
here is a good article on damping off.
http://www.cas.psu.edu/docs/CASDEPT/PLANT/ext/damp_off.html
sounds like that may be your problem. Your seedling will get its 1st set of leaves & look good, then next thing you know, it has a little withered spot on the stem that just gets worse until the seedling falls over. looks like it was pinched. Sound familiar? If it does, then it is from a bacteria or fungus in your potting soil. I switched from potting soil to seed starter. The only seed starter my store carries is peat and perlite mix, so I buy a seperate bag of vermiculite & use equal amounts mixed together. I no longer have a problem with damping off.
Donna

I do sometimes have a damping off problem. I kept my flat of seedlings too long over the heat mat which doesn't have a light over it and they got a little leggy before I moved them over close to lights and I could see a problem developing. I did what worked pretty good for me last year. Bought a package of chamomile tea. Put 4 bags in a quart jar and pour boiling water over. Leave until cool enough to water seedlings . Carefully so as not to disturb them pour the chamomile tea near them. Works for me. Donna

thats good info. i think damping off is part of my problem. or rather- it is my whole problem with that part of the problem. haha that makes no sense. but thats why they die-- the reason they get leggy is i guess the timing and warmth. i will go buy some chamomile tea today, and i will also decrease how much i water my seedlings..i might be loving them to death. oops! that you all very much, hopefully this will work.

i took some pictures to show you how leggy they get before they grow more leaves. first is a scarlet runner bean. next one is of yellow bells on the left, and flax on the right. they had all been under the grow light all day long, and i turn them every now and then.

If that bulb is what you are using for a grow light, then lack of light is definitely a problem. A better choice would be a couple of 4 foot fluorescent bulbs just inches above the seedlings.

It also looks like your soil mixture may be a little heavy for seed starting. I would look around at your Home Depot, Lowes, etc. and see if you can find seed starting soil, it is very light and a better choice for seed starting than regular potting soils, etc. It will drain faster reducing the risk of damping off, also.

well the big grow lights arent really an option (in college and broke and have no room) but i bought that one, and it said specifically made to help plants grow better. it has been better than a regular light bulb- but yea, i can see how its not enough heat or light. and im gonna look for the seed starting stuff. i dont like this soil i bought. thank you for your help too :)

I use a small desktop flourscent lamp. They are inexpensive, and are better than nothing!

Art,
you could probably get by with the lamp your using if you could somehow get it closer and more confined to the plants. Does that make sense? And do switch your soil on your next go. Hey, if your a student you must have a desk, how about making the area where your feet go into a mini-greenhouse with your light & something, a platform maybe,(books?) to set your plants on to make them up higher to the light? Assuming it is big enough & you can do so safely. Or maybe even trade for a shorter lamp base. Think creative! LOL
Donna

You could also line the cavity under the desk or a table with a space blanket, you know those mylar emergency thingies they sell for a couple bucks, usually in the auto department of your Walmart or whatever.
..........This shiny mylar will reflect all light back onto your plants. The way your light is set up now You are wasting 95 % of it into the room.
Good luck
§hirley in Smalltownrednecktractorville,WI
;~)

ok i have done some rearranging. you girls have some great ideas! this picture is of the new grow area in the leg cavity of my desk (good idea!!) i have a white towel covering the opening to hopefully reflect back the light that i would be losing.

as you can see, i'm not a very neat person haha they're all just piled in there.

but they are stacked on books and my printer and some craft boxes, so they are much closer to the light. here's a picture of the outside with the towel.... even though im a student and i HAVE a desk, doesnt mean i USE it :) its more room for plants!!
and eek! dont tell anyone how messy my room is.

thank you all again, i'll keep you posted on how well this solves my problem! thank you thank you thank you

For healthy seedlings, soil temperature is the first consideration. keep that warm, but not hot. 70-80 degrees during germination, and 70+ thereafter is good.

Plants must have maximum light immediately upon emergence, or the stems will stretch, as they look for light. 2 - 4' fluorescent lights in a shop light are good, and they need to be very close to the plants. Other light sources often are too hot for the amount of light they put out, and by the time you have them close enough to give adequate light, they burn the tender little plants. Keep the lights on for 16-18 hours each day. I sometimes leavemine on 24 hours a day.

Jim

EEwwww yuck. What kind of soil did you start off with? Maybe your problem is your soil has to much bacteria in it. I just wanted to let you know I start mine with peat buttons and got some good advice from some of Daves gardeners.I have had my flats under light for 2-weeks and what I have coming up is Pam's choice foxglove,Arkwright campion and pink forget me nots thus far. Curious..... what kind of soil do you use and do you wash out your old pots before planting new seeds? My temperature is running between 55 and 69 and mine seedlings are looking good. Circulation of air?, I would also try to sprinkle some clean dry peatmoss around top of those seedlings. Good luck

I have to add my two cents worth of info. I have recently learned (from a reliable source) that -- from the light perspective only -- a cool white fluorescent bulb is all that's needed to start seeds. If you are trying to get a plant to flower under lights, you need to add a warm white or plant light. That incandescent bulb is putting out too much heat and not enough light from what I've been told... At Wally World you can get a fluorescent light stick with the bulb for less than $10. For the amount of time and money you've invested in your "babies" already, it might be a small price to pay :)

the soil in those pictures does look pretty gross doesnt it. I use regular miracle grow potting soil, although i think this last batch may have been a no name brand and that could be part of my trouble. i think i will go buy a fluorescent light stick that you speak of kaufmann, although it will have to wait till next month. i think this plant light is putting out too much heat-- one of the scarlet runner bean seedlings got too close while i was out yesterday and scorched 2 of the leaves :( . but so far with the changes ive made, i'm seeing progress and havent lost any seedlings. the legginess still is a problem though, but i've definitely decided thats the bad light. potofgold, no i'm guilty- i dont wash out my containers before i repot them. i will DEFINITELY do that next time.

i've never seriously started seeds before, so i'm just learning all of this- and yall are being so helpful and kind to me. thank you so much again.

I think it's wonderfully fantastic that you are checking out different avenues, Art n garden! Extra great that you are continuing and not throwing in the towel! You're definitely hooked on growing, that's for sure!

I agree with others, better light, more suitable soil, and regulated temps. Hight temps for germination, lower temp for growth (especially when there is not optimum light).

Keep on keepin' on. Glad you posted this!
Happy growing!

SHOOOOE ! 'Course art_n_garden
didn't throw in the towel, art_n_garden
hung it on the desk ....Yuk-Yuk-Yuk =)

:D hahaha

thanks shoe, i am definitely hooked!

This message was edited Feb 15, 2004 10:44 PM

hah! great point made, Scooter!

Art....Lubbock,TX? what college you going to? I'll write the Dean a letter to provide grow lights and garden plots.

oh that would be wonderful!! i go to texas tech. i was TRYing to add a horticulture major, but it just wont fit with my art education major within the 5 years i'm trying to get out. haha
i am looking into doing a community garden plot this spring, which i think will help with my garden clausterphobia some!

Have been using a two tier floursent lite starter setup for several years now. (could be made 3 or 4) Heat from lower lamp fixture adds to room heat. Egg cartons with drain holes make good starting trays. Top is cut off and is under for water catcher. I water them with a reclaimed ketcup bottle. Let water stand in gallon jug to come to room temp.
Bread sacks keep the jiffey mix starter medium moist till the little lovelys sprout. At first sprout remove the sacks and under the lights they go.