Gotta back up and punt

Well,I spent the afternoon sitting on my front porch sipping a cup of coffee and watching it rain....again.

My third batch of tomato transplants are sitting in 3 inches of water and wilting.My peppers are still in the greenhouse and I've yet to put the first seed in the ground......again.

This seems to be a re-run of last year,only I was able to get my garden planted by the 8th of June in '02.

I believe we've had a change in our weather patterns and if I'm going to continue veggie gardening,I'm going to have to come up with another plan.

Keith and I talked about it today...and since he's not into gardening,he was more concerned with my distress than the actual plants...but we have come to a decision.

I'm going to plant what is in the GH in containers and spend the summer making raised beds.

That means all my veggie seeds will have to wait a year,but better to do that than to lose them to the water.

I'll start by making one bed at a time where my conventional garden stands and hopefully by this fall,will have some ready enough for winter greens.

Now for my questions...
I'm thinking of using concrete blocks for the sides,as I fear that if I don't make a hard wall of some kind,things will just wash again...right Brook?

Is there something better? I don't want to use treated lumber.

Should I buy a small tiller for the beds? I don't want a Mantis...I want a narrow rear tine.

If I scoop out the pathways and put the soil in my raised beds...what happens when the inevitable floods descend upon me next spring?Do I use a rowboat to plant and cultivate?

Some of you who are gardening in raised beds...I need some pointers.I'm going to do this on a grand scale,and it will take all summer...I don't want to be in this position again.I'm a very unhappy veggie gardener right now,and this needs to work.

i like the idea of cinder blocks, i would like to slowly change mine to the blocks we were watching costs and bought well used rr ties. which work well for us only the grass grows in them, but, they make good homes for all our frogs. our pathways are grass. started out with mulch but they grass took over. i guess you have good dirt where you are or you wouldn't concider taking it from your pathways to put in the beds. we found a horse farm that had a mountain of manure compost that was yrs old and black black dirt we hauled in one pickup load at a time. when we flood the beds drain real well. the paths are soggie but with the ties i walk on them and wear my rubber boots. it sounds like you have your work cut out for you but next yr i'm sure you are going to be real happy. good luck.

Hoop houses maybe?

Might be much less expensive that blocks for numerous raised beds; YOu can still use your delicious topsoil that you've built up to excellence over the years; you can control the water nearly 100 percent; when strategically placed and perhaps "trenched" you'll have very little problems with rain/flood run-off; you can plant your nightshades much earlier, directly in the ground; you can remove the coverings (plastic) and replace with shade cloth Or nothing what-so-ever when the weather settles; you can perhaps have a better control over the bug population, both bad and beneficial...

Sheesh, am just about talking myself into this!

Have you thought about that avenue, Mel? Might be worth considering.

Mel,

There's nothing wrong with block to define the beds. However, there's no reason they have to be confined at all. You can build up the beds with slighly sloping sides, and they'll stay in place just fine.

That's exactly how I started building my soil, originally, and one of the ways I'll start rebuilding it next year.

I found, however, that the commonly used 4-foot width was not practical, because I only left 16" paths between the beds. This meant, with little kneeling room, that I couldn't reach across the beds. I next went to 30 inch beds, and found them to be the perfect size.

If you go this route, it is crucial that you mulch the paths. I use straw, ground paper, and any organics I could find, bringing this up level with the beds. It will compace as you walk on it, but the ground underneath will not.

Natually, I kept adding amendments to the top of the beds as well.

I started with the beds 8" high, and added, perhaps, another 8" worth or organics. Did that for two years, then tilled everything into the ground. This gave me a running start on breaking up the clay. After that I just kept adding amendments and tilling them in.

In hindsight, I would do things differently (and, of course, will have to now that the monsoons have washed out the garden soil).

First, there is no need to till in the beds. I should have just kept building them upwards, mulching each year.

Second, I built them in the wrong direction. My main garden is 16 x 80 feet, oriented in a n/s direction. I had made the beds e/w. Several problems with that. First, they were too short. And second, they face the direction of the slope, so water rushing off the hillside had nothing to stop it.

My alliums bed (16 x 20 feet) has the rows oriented n/s, with cypress chips between the rows. It is the only part of the garden that has not suffered destruction from the rains. One reason, of course, is that the growing garlic and onions stabalized things. But another, I'm convinced, is that the rows and paths, running perpendicular to the waterflow, slowed it down.

In addition, with the raised beds, any standing water accumulates in the paths and slowly oozes through the beds. In my case, where everthing is on a slight slope, the water ran off, and didn't accumulate in the garden at all.

So, my game plan for rebuilding is to go back to the raised (but uncontained) beds, making them 80 feet long in a n/s direction, mulching between them.

One other advantage to this set up is that it lends itself to drip irrigation.

Thanks for the info.

Since the slope on my property is almost none,I don't think the alignment should have much to do with run off. That's the problem..There is no run off.The water just sits there.

Brook,you've been out here.I'm pretty much flat.There's not much sense in cutting a drainage ditch either...as I'd have to take it all the way to the road to do much good.

I was toying with the concrete block idea,because of how much water is held when it rains.I can't walk across any part of my garden without sinking to my knees in the soft mud.I've lost several shoes by thinking that I could walk across it.I like the idea of contained beds,but am open to ideas.

I was going to use the heavy cardboard that comes in the bodyshop to put between the rows.We get some monster size pieces that can be cut to fit the rows exactly.This would keep down weeds and give me some solid footing.If I had the cinderblocks to wedge it up against,there would be little movement...and few weeds.

I thought about putting PVC hoops over the beds to shelter the plants,but need some solid ideas on securing the plastic.We have some monster spring wind that comes with this rain and my plastic might end up in KY Lake if I'm not careful.

I have no plastic problems in the GH...I've got the 'Wire Lock" system and it stood just fine with 60 MPH gusts this spring.I just can't afford it for the whole garden.
by the way,here's a pic of my GH right after we got it up.

love your greenhouse, melody. i'm with you as far as putting up the cinderblocks. you could plant french marigolds or zinnias in the holes to dress it up a bit and the flowers help deter some flying pests like mosquitos. or you could plant some herbsin the holes which can also tend to deter some insects.

Glad you finally got the GH up, Mel. Looks great.

My concern for you is precisely that you are so flat. If you contain the beds with anything there is the danger of creating a tub effect, and you'll wind up with mucky swamps.

What price wild rice growing?

Uncontained raised beds tend to be very friable, and drain off readily. In your case, that means they would drain into the paths, which would then slowly run off. But at least the beds, themselves, wouldn't suffer as badly. My one remaining raised bed (it's got leeks in it this year) has not flooded or even gotten mucky, despite their being standing water around it.

I like the idea of cardboard as a weed guard; but I would mulch on top of it anyway. As the mulch decays you rake it up into the beds (either in the fall or the spring), and thus add additional organic material. Meanwhile, it acts as a sponge to help absorb the floods.

I use grocery bags for that purpose, and put them down before filling a new bed for the same reason. Plant roots have no trouble penetrating it, and it takes about two years to totally degrade. By which time, any underlying weed seeds are null factors.

My leeks are in a bed like that, and the only weeds I've had this year (the bags are completely gone, mind you) came from seed that self-sowed on the surface (Lawdy, Lawd, you gots to love them maples!)

My friend Toni in eastern Kentucky, as nothing but uncontained raised beds (more than a score of them), measuring 4 x 20 feet, with large paths between them. She's having one of the best gardens ever, and has already been harvesting and putting foods by. Her garden area is almost as flat as yours.

You might, in fact, want to plan a trip out this way and we can go look at her layout. Perhaps it will spark some usable ideas you can adapt.

Melody, my tomato garden is a raised bed with cinder blocks. Up until now it has been great. I haven't been able to get my tomatoes in because the soil is so wet. But there's been no puddles of water. We've had some torrential downpours here and my raised bed is on a very slight incline. If not for the cinder blocks I don't think any of the soil would still be there - it would have washed onto my patio Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

If I were on a slope,I'd contain the beds.Now,I'm not so sure.

I'm still in a muck..we got another inch last night,and it's still dumping on Brook.It will be at least a week,if things stay dry before I can get in there...even my bumper crop of weeds are looking yellow in spots.

Should I turn everything over when it dries out enough and start shoveling the soil into beds?I was thinking of having my old fellow that plows for me run over it again...he did in April,just before the monsoons hit...now it's packed solid again.

I was also thinking of getting another layer of old manure to put on the beds..got several neighbors who raise cows and it would be no problem to add.Since I'm not going to be trying to grow a whole garden,and the manure is old,I thouhght I might as well go ahead.It won't hurt the fall veggies.

>...and it's still dumping on Brook.<

glug, glug, glug......

It finally stopped pelting us, about an hour or so ago, after dropping another 4.5 inches.

Yeah, Mel, I think once it dries it's going to need breaking up again. Plowing will be too course, though. Does your friend have a disc? And/or a harrow? That should give you a working consistency.

Whether you decide to enclose the beds or not, I would layer the cardboard in them, too, as a weed guard. Then pile up the soil over it. And I would definately add the manure. Once the water goes away, most of the nutrients are going to have leached out. So anything you can do to replace them quickly will be a help.

So, I lied.

Shortly after posting the last message it started raining again. And continued most of the night.

Not the torrential thunder bumbers we've been having. More like the kind of rain we'd kill for in a normal July or August.

But, on top of the earlier storms, who needed it.

Hmmmmmm. Last year at this time we were complaining about drought conditions.

Well,shortly after I posted,we got another downpour.Even had to turn off the computer because of the lightning.

When it dried...IF it dries...I'll get the old fellow out here.He's got a 6 foot tiller thingy that he uses.That's what I'll have him break it up with.

Last fall,I didn't get to put manure on the garden like I usually do because of the wreck.All I did,was amend the tomato holes with compost this year,so I really need the manure.After all of this,there can't be much left in the way of food.

got a call from our friend who is going to wire and plumb my GH.He bought a little backhoe yesterday...a baby looking thing..I think I'll have him scrape off the top 6 inches of my paths and put them where the beds will be...as soon as it won't sink up to the axels.

I'm getting excited about this! I've always wanted raised beds,but thought the project was way too big.Of course,I' haven't turned the first shovelfull yet.

I can't emagine that much rain, and it's looking like you are getting raised beds out of the deal, another way of making lemonaid from lemons. Take some before and after pictures so we can all see.

You're right Mary. You can't imagine it. I'm going through it, and find it hard to imagine!

If you could see Melody's garden area you'd realize that the "before" pix would have to include a cute little sailboat idling along on Lake Rose.

I have raised beds made out of 2x6 redwood planks. We made them kind of tall (3 of them high) and if I did it again I might only go 2 tall. I have had them for approx. 9 years now and have not had to replace any of the planks yet, but maybe in about 5 years will have to replace some of the bottom planks. We put mushroom compost in when they were completed and I just add compost each spring before planting again. They have worked great for me, I have trellises up one side that are just attached to the wood for growing vines. Living in California I can grow stuff pretty much all year and have no problem with the rain puddling (we have clay soil and in the rest of the yard we can have swimming pools). This year I even planted all my veggies in the rain (rained about a month straight) and everything is doing great now. The cost was kind of high the first year but has not cost anything since then. We also put in a drip system and because I don't have to till every year I just reuse the drip locations adding and removing as needed for the year.

Well, well, well. Will wonders never cease.

Despite the monsoons, and despite the lack of sunshine, the few tomatoes that survived have, I noticed last evening, actually put out flowers.

I'm concerned now as to whether the plants are strong enough to bear the weight of any developing fruit. These are not, as y'all can imagine, the toughest plants ever grown.

More rain last night...and it's still raining this morning.....

Gee, Mel, just what I wanted to hear. :-(

Brook, Mel...
I was reading lately that it was discovered that tomato plants can be grafted onto eggplant and will grow in rice paddies. Think ya'll might wanna consider this? :>)

Ahhhh! A double dip for the flea beetles. :-)