Vegetable Gardeners...you are needed

Have any of you been over in the PDB lately? The vegetable section is pretty pitiful. We have one of the biggest PDB on the web and there are probably 20 pictures of Purple Coneflowers or Crape Myrtles,and all sorts of growing tips.It's awsome what people have done.
Where are all of the veggie growers??? I feel like the Lone Ranger when I'm adding to the PDB.Vols has worked her butt off trying to make sure every available option is there for you,and when I'm over there,I feel like I'm the only one regularly working to add information. Now that's not entirely true...several of you have contributed alot too.But the bulk of the veggie growers just aren't there.There's not many of us here,but this group is quality,as opposed to quantity.We have some people here with vast experience and I would love to be able to learn from you.

Please go over and look around.There is a section for nothing but beans,and it's virtually empty.I've been working on the tomatoes and was hoping that the pictures that I was posting would generate some intrest,but alas,I'm rattling around in an empty room.

With the Spring planting season just about here,lots of people will be researching new varieties.What better way to introduce them to us,than to have a nice veggie database for them to stumble into.

I don't usually ask for much around here...but I'm asking now.Come on gang....help me out!

OK...5 views,no replys...what's up??

Melody I agree but one of the problems I find is that I can't fill in all of the options because they are sometimes different to names/words we use here. I find it off putting when I can't fill in the option list in it's entirity.

However, I will make a concerted effort to put in some veggies.

Mornin...just saw this post, and it's a good request Mel.
I'll swing by and take a peek. Other than BEANS and TOMATOES going into their own slot I guess the other veggies just go into the normal PDB.

Can't have you rattling around over there by yourself. (It echos in there, don't it?)

Baa, can you give me example(s) of terms that are different from what you normally use? If the terminology is the only thing holding you (or anyone else) back, we can look at modifications.

This message was edited Thursday, Jan 16th 7:06 PM

It's Baa complaining :)

OK tomato confusion:

Leaf type
Seed type

Beans

Seed type
What's a bush bean, anything that isn't a broad bean or a runner bean is a french bean to me

Potatoes
Seed type
How do you determine tuber size on c.v.s that can be second earlies or maincrop?
I don't understand the moist option in texture

From the top.

Tomato leaf type - I've only heard them called potato and regular leaf. Are there other types, or other names?

Seed type. I *think* this list was suggested by some gardeners here. But the general idea is that the seeds are hybrid, OP or heirlooms (or that newfangled thing called a "created heirloom", which I think Carolyn or someone else could explain best :)


Along the same lines, bean seed types, once you get past hybrid and OP, were types I was given by some (ahem) experts here, so if these aren't accurate or widely used, I need to know what should be used in their place.

Bush beans are in direct contrast to pole beans. I believe both are french beans in British vernacular, but one stays short, and, well...bushy.

IMO, potato tuber size should be in reference to the maincrop size, and is provided only to give other gardeners an idea of what to expect.

Potato texture was probably the most challenging category I worked on last year (especially considering I wound up with three choices - a lot of effort for very little result!)

I researched high and low for "standards" and found little to hang my hat on. Yet most commercial and non-commercial lists and databases make reference - through many different adjectives - to texture and/or purpose. Moist seemed to be somewhere between a dry potato and a waxy one :)

But now if I may push back just a bit: I find it hard to believe that the descriptors are the sole reason gardeners haven't contributed more to the PDB. If that is truly the case, I sure wish someone had spoken up sooner (y'all are NOT a shy, retiring bunch!)

And even if the descriptions were/are unfamiliar, that doesn't mean you can't rate the varieties you grew last year, or add photos.

I'll echo Melody's question: vegetable growers, where are you? We need each and every one of you to make this the best vegetable database on the web. If that means sending constructive criticism to me to change descriptions, then we need you to do that. But much of the work that needs to be done is best done by a group. So let's agree to make the PDB our new "home away from home" for the next few weeks, please?

Thanks Vols but some of that is way over my head.

I'll just leave it at that and let other gardeners answer for themselves.

*guilty* I have been busy updating the shrub/tree area and just ignoring the veggies. Sob.

In my defense, I am not a bean or tomato expert; I prefer to leave those (except that I have direct experience with) to the real experts. I did try to work on other crops, lettuce, carrots, etc., but found the format more set up to ornamental plants, especially perennials. Most things about veggies just don't fit the categories. I never went back after discussing this with Go_Vols sometime during the summer. Oh, the shame!!! I will get over there and start my penance. Anyone else join me?

LOL, penance is fifty lashes with a southern-cooked green bean (and in case you're not familiar with how we cook beans down here, we boil them to the point you almost need a spoon to eat 'em!)

Sounds like you're serving them underdone, G-V. :-)

Melody: How is the best way to add different varieties. For instance; Radish, Dave has entered one that looks like a red round radish like "Cherry Belle" or similar. I prefer one called "French Breakfast". Do I enter that name as a synonym? That doesn't seem right. Do I make a seperate entry for it?

Ivey, I'm not Mel, but I can answer your question: each cultivar is its own entry. That way, photos can be added without worry how to convey to the reader which image goes with which description.

You'll find a link from the main PDB page, beneath the newest comments, to "Add a new plant" (or something like that!) If you need help, just holler.

Oh do I feel bad. I'ts so cold here it doesn't really seem that Spring is around the corner. I only grow tomatoes. I guess now I feel rather selfish. I've never photographed one - only eaten it. I'll try to pay better attention and if I have info I will certainly add it.

Thanks, Vols. I just wasn't sure. Another reason for the derth of entries, I bet, is the fact we don't usually take good clear pics of veggies, unless they're really huge or weird or something.

elsie, even without photos, your opinions do matter; what you can tell another gardener (via a comment) about your favorite varieties might encourage them to try growing a new variety. (And next summer, just grab that camera before you reach for the knife and salt shaker!)

Ivey, you're probaby right about the lack of photos. But here's the ironic twist: unless we take photos (Melody is a wonderful role model for us), the only images many gardeners will see is on their commercial seed packets or catalogs. And a photo is very compelling - what a shame it is to not show off those OP and heirloom varieties!

And Brook: I'm still waiting for your list of changes/questions :)

Wow! People coming out of the woodwork! I've been away all day and just look at what I've stirred up!

Everyone,even if you have no photos to share,,,,please.....put your ratings in on whatever you are familiar with.It will help so much!Add the plant and then make a promise to yourself to photograph it this year!But get the plant added.That way you just..have.. to go back and finish.Stuff you get from the grocery store is ok if the variety is labled.Lots of winter squash are available and you can just take a pic and post.

I've been working on the tomatoes and you can get a feel of what is needed for the other veggies,lettuce,squash,radishes,corn,cukes...oh ,my! the list goes on...Go take a look.Click on my name and look at the images I've put in the PDB.Maybe it will help.

If you're unsure how to go about it,or have a question on the latin names,don't hesitate to contact me or vols and we'll be delighted to help you with that stuff.(this isn't for Baa...as she knows more latin than vols and I put together)

As far as what we need for a worldwide database,Baa,you're going to have to tell us what we need to do to make it easier for the Europeans to navigate.We share the same language with you,but sometimes the words have different subtle meanings.Please help us make this database something all people will feel comfortable adding to.It's something that has never been done before,and we've stayed in our little corner of the world and never needed to develop a consistant language for what we do.We're breaking new ground here,because we are just common gardeners and not scientists.
What would you suggest?We'll try to make it so.

If any of you are hesitant about posting pictures,I'll help with composition and photography tips.By the time your harvest comes in ,you'll have some images that you wouldn't mind framing.Even something as lowly okra can be made into an attractive still life.It just takes a few tips on how to compose a shot.

Don't hesitate to post suggestions or questions...this is how we get things done.

Brook,I know you've got a variety of okra that you're working with...fill us in...please.

I was good: I spent the afternoon with my memories and several catalogues and was able to finish most of the lettuces that needed work. I started a couple of the beans that I have grown in the past, but I am too unfamiliar to want to mess it up.

I will list my uncertainties and await help from the experts:

Seed type: very often there is no reliable info that I can find if these are heirloom, hybrid, etc. Best to leave it blank?

Bloom color: unless I happen to find grab someone who is reliable on colors, same. (I am color-blind). Virtually no catalogue lists any bloom color, except for the 'Scarlet Runner Bean'. Oh well.

I guess those were my only difficulties with beans.

About the lettuces: Rather than inundate y'all with a mass of e-mails, I wonder if you can make a change the exposure for them all at the same time to include "full sun to partial shade"

Melody

I can't speak for all Europe because each country has different ways of doing things.

I will look to see if there is anything I can add option wise but I seriously doubt it because our systems, in the UK at least, seem much more simple than yours. We usually grow cultivar veg, never seen anything here that say's anything about potato leaf tomatoes or all these bean names, certainly couldn't tell you a 'seed type'.

Lupine

Look up the Genus and species name on google and you'll find a likely bloom colour in a description in there.

Melody,

I've come up with a couple of things, shall I email you and Vols after the PDB challenge is done?

Baa,why don't you let us know now? It might be something that could be fixed pretty quickly and we could just keep on adding to the PDB.

I've been thinking about what you said about the beans and tomatoes and I think it just may be that your growing conditions might have something to do with the tomato leaf question. Potato Leaf tomatoes,for the most part have a longer growing/ripening season than the regular leaf tomatoes.Conditions in your country may not lend themselves to this variety,so you may not have seen them.

The leaf is shaped like a potato's leaf, and most of the time,the flower looks different too.It can look like a double or triple tomato flower.It is simply a designation that we use to describe a type.I know of no hybrid Potato Leaf tomatoes(maybe Carolyn will come along and add to this)All the ones that I've ever heard of are Open Pollinated/Heirloom.
As far as the seed type option,If I don't know for certian sure whether it is actually a heirloom/heritage plant,I check the Open Pollinated box.All heirlooms have to be OP,or they wouldn't grow true.

As far as the beans go,and I'm no expert,I think we have broken down the category that you all call French Beans into a whole pile of stuff.We've had several discussions on this topic and there are reigeonal differences even here in the States.Our Pole Beans are not Runner Beans,they are phaseolus vulgaris,as are most of the North American bean varieties.I need for a bean expert to come along and help out from here.

Here is a picture of a group of tomato leaves.Note the bigger,rougher leaves.Those are Potato Leaves,although there are varieties that are much more delicate,that big monster leaf is a good example.It's almost as long as my arm!

Thanks for the information Melody.

I can't see me collating all the information needed (checked and checked again against various sources) in the next few days so I'll make no promises to do this prior to the end of January.

That's fine Baa,It will be nice to have it when you have it ready.This is such a unique undertaking,for we are not professionals,that I appreciate you wanting to be as accurate as possible.

We are building something that common gardeners worldwide can find answers in,and hopefully will want to be a part of.If we can give them a little familiar ground,maybe more will speak up and let us know what is needed.

Thank you for doing this!

I agree Melody, the only reason I haven't made any suggestions before is because there are more experienced european veg growers on here!

Baa
(Toe treading a speciality;)

Go ahead and stomp on them toes Baa! Maybe if you do,they'll speak up!

Hey, Melody and GV... looks like my (gentle!) scathing remarks in the tomato forum last year about the dearth of PDB veggie info. finally entered the ether, mixed with the same thoughts y'all had, and rooted. Now it seems to bear the fruit of knowledge shared. Good work, gals!

I'm not a veggie grower (except 4-5 tomato plants) at this current house due to a lack of sufficient sunshine and an abundance of squash borers. However, if I can find and buy my dream house, I will rely heavily on the PDB for veggies, especially heirlooms.

Thanks darius, for the kind words.We were hoping that the veggie growers would take this time when there's no excuses, to get going on our part of the PDB,and I'm so glad they're doing such a great job!

Baa, I pulled out a couple of my reference books on tomatoes, and will get busy on them soon. Just a bit of trivia first, that might help you:

The "potato-leaf" varieties are from having one of their ancestors being L. esculentum grandifolium, the potato-leaf tomato. Since all Lycopersicon species readily cross and re-cross, there are many variables, which have one or more of the species in its make-up.

Now to get to work making sure all of the species are in the PDB... p.s. be sure you read the remarks on the L. cheesmanii seed-germinating! Great job for naturalists!

Go_Vols, "on the lighter side?" *hee-hee giggle snort* I am searching for the rest of the plant info to post later.

Okay Melody, you've forced me to go dig out my "round tuit". I'm off to the database.

Dsrtgdn, can I borrow your Round Tuit? I think I lost mine LOL

I'll happily mail it to you lupine......soons I find another ..... ROUND TUIT!!

Okay the cold an flu medicine has kicked in...I'm going to bed
Chris

Melody,
I will be growing for market this year in the Raleigh area, so I will heed your call. Besides, I bought this nice new Imac flat panel computer that has great photo editing software, so why not use it for the PDB? I really like gourmet veggies, so I will try to get all that I grow onto the site, tech gods willing of course. How about equipment photos? Any interest in that? Ya know, people that have made modifications or improvements on tools, tractors, etc.?

Tom, those equipment photos would be great to add directly to the forums here! The Farm Forum, Handyman's Forum, even Market Growers forum would be especially interested in that. (Sounds like you bought a digital camera to me, eh?)

Looking forward to your pics. ô¿ô

Shoe,
I haven't bought one yet, but can use one from school. Just one of the perks of teaching. BTW, did you survive the tornado warnings, or are you in mid-flight as you type?

Now there's an image, ole HorseFly flapping his wings as he flees the black vortex of an oncoming tornado! Seriously,of course, we're hoping those storms pass uneventfully for all. Having a few thunderboomers here at present.

Oh my! and Mercy me!....I was flappin' there for a few minutes, kikisdad! I de-clare, I de-clare! I ran the wimmin-folk outta here 15 minutes b4 the biggy storm hit us. (DD had skating practice, if they had waited any longer to leave I think they would've just hunkered down here with me!)
There was a tornado sighted about 20 miles from us to the east, then the big storm hit us (NOT a tornado) but high winds, heavy rain,...enuff to kick in my freak-out meter and make me head to the bldging out back. After it all passed, there was another tornado to the WEST of us this time, about 15 miles. I guess since we got hit by one several yrs ago they decided to leave us alone this time!

A friend called, said they were at the library in Chapel Hill and watched one go over head! It never touched down, but was freaky just the same.

So...to answer your question, Tom. We survived, but I think I may have to wash my britches out one day this week. :

Just to let you know I haven't forgotten my promise. I'll have a shot at it this weekend to save me from visiting the local nurseries, if I spend anymore thismonth I'm going to have to com up with a way to find grass digestable.

If any of my fellow compatriots want to jump in please let me know, cos I'm not a good veg grower.