Not GMF

I had a really great surpise today!! I bought some corn starch and the label clearly said that it was not genetically modified. I was over the moon!! How long before we can see more and more foods labelled as such. The day can't come soon enough for me and I feel that if a product has been modified then that fact should also be clearly indicated!! We just don't know what we are eating any more!!

Ditto! Even better would be the day when there is no genetically modified foods to be marked because the potential harm that they present is more relevant than the almighty dollar!

Not to throw cold water on your joy, Louisa, but I can't believe that label.

Given the nature of how corn has been grown and distributed, it is virtually impossible to buy commercial corn that is not corrupted with genetically modified versions. So, unless the cornstarch company has actually grown (and tested) it's own crops, I have no faith in that label.

Brook that has really given me the creeps!! So none of our corn is clean????? The maker of this corn starch is Rumford and I'm going to check their website now at www.hulman.com and send them an enquiry. nmax there was a long, long discussion on this on the farm forum last year. It's a terrible legacy for our beautiful planet!! This is what they say:-

Rumford cornstarch is made from certified non-genetically modified corn. What does that mean? It means that from the seed to can we verify that only 100% pure corn—and no foreign genetic material—enters the process. Currently US standards dictate that no more than 2% foreign genetic material (genetically modified organisms or GMOs) may be present in products labeled as “GMO free.” In reality cornstarch contains virtually no genetic material of any kind. It is refined to the extent that it is a pure carbohydrate. But if GMOs are a concern to you, rest assured that we do all we can to ensure they are not in our product.

So there you have it!! Do they mean that yes they have allowed the 2% modification which I presume they have and how true is their last statement which is contradictory!!

I can't speak for Rumsford and how they are doing things. But I do know that the pro-gmo folks have a long history of using words to confuse and obfuscate the truth.

For instance, whenever the question of safety is brought up, they wave sheaves of paperwork in the air, and talk about how much testing is required by law. What they don't say is that none of that testing relates to safety of the products. Other than in some allergy situations, no health and safety testing, per se, is required.

What has to be established is "substantial equivalency" to a non-gmo version of that veggie. Uh, huh. That's sort of like the seperate by equal concept.

Most people do not realize how insidious GMOs have become. There is virtually no unmodified rapeseed on the world market, for instance. What that means is that any product you use which incorporates canola oil, is a gmo. We've mentioned corn. Last figures I saw for soybeans was something like 85% of the crop is genetically modified.

You've heard those of us involved in heirlooms talk about genetic diversity and its importance. As it turns out, heirlooms are quickly becoming the _only_ source of non-modified germplasm there is. Because despite all the empty promises and guarantees, genetic transference does, and has taken place on a large scale. If you think not, ask all the farmers Monsanto has sued who never knowingly grew gmo crops.

Scary doesn't begin to describe it.

I know Brook - I know how devastating the problem is and if you remember I brought it up when I first came to DG. I shall be glad when we start to grow our own things again as it seems to be the only answer to safeguard our health but the big issue will still be out there. My daughter lives in Germany and she has told me that GMF is banned there but I don't know how accurate she is!!

The EEC has been way ahead of us in banning gmos. Unfortunately, they seem to be bowing under pressure from the U.S.

Hmmmmm

Yes GMO's are banned (although trials have/are run) BUT it was discovered that seed grain bought from other non-EU countries were mixed with GM seed and therefore it is virtually impossible to say we are totally GM free here or at least we weren't last year!

FYI

Rumford is a brand under the Philip Morris "family" of products. I try to stay far away as possible from them because I will never be able to trust anything PM makes.

As for corn...In the late 1800's a botanist in the midwest, whose name escapes me, theorized that a certain family of grasses could be cross bred with other grasses until it produced a corn similar to what was available during his time. He began his experiment to prove it and after nearly 50 years of work, was able to produce ears of corn originating from that grass.

I work in a natural history museum and saw the evidence in the form of a small exhibit this man put together.

This person was not a labratory scientist that we think of today, so where does the line get drawn at GM and non GM foods? Gardeners have been cross breeding plants long before scientists. Would'nt they be considered genetic engineers? I hear everyone beating a drum about the positives of organics, yet a genetically modified plant can be organic. Personally I'm trying to stick with heirloom organic gardening because I don't trust both sides of the GM, non-GM arguement.

Square Root,

You raise a good point, one that's been thrashed around quite a bit. And, of course, it's a complex issue.

However, there is a simple difference. Until recently, "new" varieties were formed by a natural process. Similar (that is to say, genetically related) organisms were crossed. Each contributed to the genetic make-up of the new plant or critter. If the characteristics of the new one were desirable (whatever that meant), work would be done to stabalize it so it would breed true.

Basically, this used nature's own way, only speeded up a bit. This is precisely what your midwest botonist did: he replicated what had happened naturally over a long period of time.

Genetic modification, on the other hand, uses sophisticated laboratory techniques to cross unlike organisms which would never be able to do so under natural conditions. Adding genetic material from a jellyfish, for instance, to a plant.

The problems from all this manipulation are: 1. nobody knows the long terms effect on health and safety that may result from such gmos. It took us more than 60 years to recognize the dangers of DDT. Why should be accept the blythe claims of scientists who are doing no safety testing, and who have a vested interest in the outcome. 2. the effects are irreversible. and 3. the gmos displace other varieites, thereby lessoning the bio-diversity of food crops---which can lead to disaster. You have to go back no further than 1970, and the distruction of the American corn crop, to see possible results.

>I hear everyone beating a drum about the positives of organics, yet a genetically modified plant can be organic. Personally I'm trying to stick with heirloom organic gardening because I don't trust both sides of the GM, non-GM arguement.<

A couple of points, here, Square Root.

First, "organics" refers to a method of growing. It has nothing to do with the source of the seed, per se. In fact, when I first got involved heavily with heirlooms I assumed that heirloom growers would gravitate towards organic growing. The two seemed logically joined. But this is not the case. The percentage of heirlooms growers who use organic methods is just about the same as that of veggie gardeners as a whole.

Second, if you grow only heirlooms and do it organically, then you have taken a position on these issues. Whether consciouse or not, you've come down on the side of bio-diversity and good land stewardship.

I made the same choice. Only I did it consciously. I will not even put a hybrid in the ground. But I recognize that I made that decision as much for political as horticultural reasons. I won't do anything that supports Monsanta et als in their continued agricultural madness.

The campaign for a moratorium on labelling continues and whilst doing more research came across the site posted below. Note that in one paragraph it states that countries abroad are insisting that foods imported from the US are labelled whilst here in the US the foodstuffs are not labelled!! I remember quite well how long the original thread continued on GMF at DG and I fear we can debate this all we like but still end up with the same conclusion. Even if every household in the US were to participate in a moratorium against GMF it would make no difference!! How many people actually know about GMF!!! I cannot see how we can stop the politicians and heads of governments from forging ahead with this unnatural and deadly process!!

http://www.thecampaign.org/newsupdates/feb01m.htm

I'm new to DG and I want to thank everyone (Brook, louisa) for the education on GM's. I'm sorry to have joined at a time when much of the debate has come and gone, although that doesn't mean the information out there is gone. I'll continue my education

Meanwhile:

I'm tired of the manufactured planet. What exactly is everyone racing towards? It seems as if we've been experiencing one disaster being compounded by another Is today's chemical revolution a result of, or the price of globalization? As I practice and learn more about heirloom organic gardening, I hope to have it sustain me in such a way that I don't have to buy food again. Maybe we need to revive and update a new sense of the "Victory Garden".

Well said Square Root and forgive me for not welcoming you to DG earlier. I hope you enjoy this site and look forward to your posts and getting to know you. I have only been in the States for just under 5 years now, originally hailing from Cambridge, England and have been at DG for just over a year!! I still have so much to learn about gardening in America!! Having just built a new house last year I am starting over again and it's no easy task!!

Now back to the thread!! I find it very distressing when politics and greed override the urgent need to bring about change for the better and ways to improve our planet. I fear that we are seeing the decline of our world as we knew it and I fear the legacy that awaits our children and their children. The feeling of helplessness and the knowledge that we mere mortals can do nothing about it is uppermost. Yes, we can improve and protect our own lot in an attempt to thwart the chemical onslaught but what about the big picture!! I have no answers and it frightens me!!

>Yes, we can improve and protect our own lot in an attempt to thwart the chemical onslaught but what about the big picture!! <

Time Magazine used to have a slogan, Louisa, to describe their approach to journalism: "One man writing for one man."

The slogan was never true. But the concept is. Change is brought about by one person at a time doing something. Not by groups marching in the streets with signs. Not by letter writing campaigns. One person doing what is right. And then another. And another.

One of the saddest ideas currently in wide circulation is that one person can't make a difference. At base, though, it is _always_ just one person who makes a difference.

Do you remember the anti-draft song "Alice's Restaurant?" Arlo Guthrie was right. If one person came in, sang a chorus of Alice's Restaurant, and walked out they'd think he was crazy, and wouldn't take him. If two people did it, they'd think they were faggots, and wouldn't take either of them. And if a hundred people walked in, sang a bar of Alice's Restaurant, and walked out they'd think it was a movement.

What I'm saying is that Alice's Restaurant starts in your own backyard. If you worry about that, the world will worry about itself sooner or later. The movement _will_ follow.

Brook,

I wholeheartedly agree with you. I think that if enough individuals gave up on relying on the supermarket and started growing their own food, ideas concerning food quality would get more notice.

Although active protests get attention, I think they need to be better organized to be effective. If there was a simultaneous protest all on the same day all around the industrial nations in any city willing to participate, THAT would be noticed. I worked at the Smithsonian and lived in Washington DC for two years on Capitol Hill and saw a demonstration twice a month. Almost all of these marches happened on weekends, when nobody on works in the Capitol other than janitors, and visitor service people. The local news doesn't even bother reporting on the event. So unless those demonstators bring the news stations with them, they're preaching to themselves and to janitors.

Besides which, nobody pays attention to mass rallys anyway. Not the people who make the decisions, at any rate.

There's another problem with those kinds of demonstrations, in that they're made up of true believers. Nobody pays attention to people like that, no matter which side of an issue they are on. As somebody once said, "it isn't that their message is wrong. It's just that their halos are so blinding you can't pay attention to what they're saying."

Individiual actions are what matters, always.

On a practical matter, Square Root, you're kind of spoiled when it comes to growing your own food. I used to live in northern Illinois, myself, and that 12 feet of black dirt sure makes a difference. Used to be, I could plant a nail in the evening and harvest a spike by the next morning.

Then I moved here, where everything is made of clay. Takes three years, minimum, of amending to create any sort of growing soil. What a difference!

Brook you are so right!! I do realize it's up to the individual to make a difference and it can have an affect but I can't see it will be enough!! I have never heard of the anti-draft song :-) but get your drift and it's a good one!! But how long is it going to take many, many individuals to change the system?? Surely we can't do enough too soon to stop the madness. In other words the race towards more madness is beating the race of individuals to bring an end to the madness!! If we could educate the masses overnight and they all grew their own untainted food then we would have a chance but can you see that happening!!! I know I'm being pessimistic but I do believe it's too late and that the damage has already been done. I hope you can give me and others more hope and I look forward to hearing that from you!!

Wasn't it Andrew Jackson (US president 1800s) who said, 'One man with courage makes a majority.'

Indeed, setting examples is important but you can't be quietly setting your example to make a difference you have to speak out or at least be seen to be doing whatsever courageous thing you've set out to do. I agree protests are passe, quite apart from the fact they are full f 'true believers', a portion of the protesters are the 'Anti' crowd who wil protest about anything for 15 minutes of fame.

When the whole GM thing blew up here the pro-GM people were saying, of course it's safe, the American consumers have been the test for this for some time now. This wasn't inspiring for the EU population who has been battered by various food scares for a good 20 years now. I worked in Ag during some of the worst food crisies ever seen on these shores and people really don't want to have their food messed about with anymore than it has been.

Governments (and please note I'm not specifically mentioning any specific government) and money always go together. As much as they are supposed to be impartial they aren't, people never are, especially where ambition and power comes into the equation. The UK is actually pro-GM but the public horror caused the supermarkets to take the lines off their shelves.

Keep talking on discussions like these, keep pushing and boycotting. After all what is a government without supporters other than a dictatorship?

It was also Davy Crockett who supposedly said, "you can't stop a man who's in the right and keeps coming." Later on that became the unofficial motto of the Texas Rangers.

Louisa, Baa is right about not keeping quiet. But you don't do it by getting on a soapbox and yelling your message. What you do is offer some heirlooms tomatoes, or squash, or whatever to your neighbors. Once they taste them, and compare them to the supermarket [deleted], they'll be growing their own. And they'll turn others on. And it snowballs.

Here's an example. Several years ago I sent seed to one of Friend Wife's coworkers. Now heirlooms are all she'll grow, and she avoids buying produce at the market. She, in turn, turned on several members of the Sierra Club chapter on to heirloom growing. But it gets better. Last year she arranged for a piece of city property to be used as a community garden in her neighborhood. Something like 20 families were involved in the project.

Have I stopped Monsanto by sharing seeds with her? Not hardly. But I've sure spread the word in a meaningful way. And raised a whole lot of people's consciousness about the problem.

Yes Brook I know what you are saying and surely to goodness I am going to try my hardest to spread the message too!! Last year I sent a circular to many regarding GMF and I hope it has continued to be passed on to others. We can only hope!!

I recently read something that showed the power of influence of one person's actions - it had to do with Colin Powell (I think) being inspird by MLK, who was inspired by Rosa Parks, who was in turn inspired by a (not famous) relative - I can't recall who, to my embarassment. But the point is, our actions DO have an influence on others, sometimes years down the road.

Case in point, a little closer to home: I've asked a few questions regarding organic gardening methods during my MG classes. These questions were dismissed by the discussion leaders, and that was discouraging to me; I figured everybody else would think I was a flake.

But by the second meeting, I had people approaching me at break with questions and advice on organic gardening; they were glad that somebody was asking the same type of questions they had. I've received very warm and positive feedback from probably a third of the class - all of whom are interested in a more organic approach to gardening. (And even those who haven't indicated an interest in OG now know who I am, LOL!)

My point to all this - I didn't have to get on a soapbox, or carry a placard to gain the attention of several people, who in turn can and will influence others.

I do the same thing with my heirloom tomatoes I'm growing - when I talk to people, I don't condemn the hybrids, but I do appeal to people's nostalgia, and explain to them that these are tomatoes with old-fashioned taste. And everyone I've talked to gets a real misty-eyed look when I remind them of the "REAL" tomatoes from their childhood. Now I've got our UPS driver and a guy at the Co-Op telling others what I'm doing, and hopefully it'll send some people my way when it's time to sell my babies :)

For what it's worth, only doing what I can in my little part of the prairie here in Kansas,I began at the local elevator' I've typed literature for the folks here to read and discuss over their"morning coffee"

I have my neighbors also involved being more aware to what they plant and how they plant' Finally after many years,we now have a horticulture program at the junior/seniorhigh schools.

I learned as a child that there are ways to grow without putting poison on plants(pesticides). Natural methods were and still are used today and I stress the beneficial health factors as well'

I've encouraged friends/neighbors to NOT PURCHASE BUG WHACKERS(electric devices that instantly kill insects)which we need for the balance of nature to survive'

We all make time for sports,tv,excercise,yacking on the phone,our modems there must be time also taken to grow/store our food also'

Perhaps the "old fashioned ways are becoming the NEW fashioned ways"now' Something to not only ponder but apply in our daily routines'''Sis'