WINTER 2016 WInter Sowing

Here we are - December 2015 and another WS'ing season will soon be up on us!
Share your experiences, what you're planting, ask questions here!

Val, some seeds say to be winter sown in a cold frame and others to be sown direct in the fall, which I assume means directly outdoors. So, it were the seeds siad needing the cold frame that I figured goes in either the milk carton method or simply sown in open containers in the cold frame. Is my logic correct?

Where are you reading this? On the back of the package? Most seed packages are not based on WSing...like poppies, some people say you can throw them directly on the ground either, but they wintersow fine. WSing will not necessarily let you have seedlings earlier than normal, but work with nature, So your annuals that need warm are not necessarily going to sprout earlier than temps they need are achieved, so in that a cold frame might help ?? but what seeds say they need a cold frame? That might enable me to answer better :) You can still WS seeds that say you should direct sow in the fall. You are "direct sowing" before spring, into the containers, and they are going thru the cold stratification they require in order to sprout.

The covers to the wintersown containers should provide the"cold frame" needs, i would think.

Again, fill me in on what you're planning to plant. Happy to help if I can!

Hi Val, after doing more reading, I think I am misunderstanding some things. First, to answer your question, I am reading this info on Dave's garden, such as this:

For Gaillardia (blanket flower) burgundy:

Propagation Methods:

By dividing the rootball
From herbaceous stem cuttings
From seed; direct sow outdoors in fall
From seed; winter sow in vented containers, coldframe or unheated greenhouse
From seed; sow indoors before last frost
From seed; direct sow after last frost
Self-sows freely; deadhead if you do not want volunteer seedlings next season

Now I am beginning to see that the "vented containers" are acting like little green houses, correct? That means they need light/sun. This causes me to wonder if my screened porch will do. Although we have wrapped it in plastic, there is a regular roof over it. THe only light would be coming in from the sides and it would not heat up like a green house would, even in winter. However, plants that are hardy in my zone (6) and colder should be fine out there, just in Jiffy pots, right? Not covered, but protected by the plastic covered porch? I am not expecting the seeds to grow in winter, but to do what happens to them naturally if they would have been self-sown in the garden. I'm very confused and the wintersown.org site is not working. Ugh!

Kelley

Ok I will take a crack at answering this:
I have never grown Gaillardia from seed.
Looking at this info I learn that Gaillardia will sprout pretty much any time, anywhere! It does not require a period of being moist and cold, like some perennials. For this particular flower, you will probably have great success sprouting them on the porch, but if you do it too early, they may have trouble growing- either not enough light (Gaillardia like sun), or too cool and damp so they will die of "Damping Off". So, this is one I would sprout on the porch in early or mid spring, so they can then be planted out pretty early.

Classic "Wintersowing" by putting out seeds in a milk jug or similar, with cap off, out in the weather, is most useful for perennial or woody plant seeds that require a period (or two!) of being cold and moist, just like if they were seeds dropped in the fall and would then sprout in the spring. These seeds actually want to be out in the wintry weather. Our wintersowed seedlings then get a tiny bit of a growth advantage in the spring because of the greenhouse protection by the top of the jug, although one has to remember to take it off before they fry. During the cold winter it basically freezes solid, which the seeds are fine with, this would happen in nature. We also use wintersowing for easygoing annual plants that really don't care one way or another, just because it is easy and fun to be doing this in December.

Cold frames and greenhouses are most useful to get an early start in the spring for seeds that do NOT want to be cold, like many of our annuals, vegetables, and tropicals that act like annuals here-petunias and tomatoes are tropical perennials that we use as annuals. People start them in greenhouses, coldframes, and on the kitchen windowsill (actually tomato seeds are so vigorous that I think some folks have some success wintersowing them). So when it says on a seed packet that it should be sprouted at 70-80 degrees, I don't usually wintersow, but I might get a head start on summer by using my little cold frame. Starting seeds on the porch can be fabulous, I just have to not do it too early. If done too early they don't get enough light and are weakened and prey to disease, usually molds.

So really it is just an example of how many kind of plants there are. Some seeds want warm, some want cold, some want alternating between the tow (my Iris foetidissima needs TWO winters!) and some want warm-moist before cold-moist. Some need to be knicked or damaged, some are made to pass through the digestive system of certain animals and exposed to the stomach acid. Some require fire, some require exposure to smoke (can be tricked by using Liquid Smoke" from the grocery store, reportedly).

The Gaillardia are an example of seeds that should be easy, The info on DG is not always correct, because it is entered by us users, but it looks here like folks do anything, and get Gaillardia to sprout! One thing to look out for in PlantFiles, is when you look at the zip code reports, some people have entered things I think are errors, they said they grow a tropical plant in zone 3, I think they have it as a houseplant.

So have fun, don't worry about it too much, and let us know how it is growing. We all learn a lot from our own and others failures too.

Sorry about the upside down photos, I have no idea why it happened.

Kelley,

Trudi took Wintersown.org down while she is rebuilding. she needs a bit of a break as it's been non stop for her, and she certainly deserves a break! :) You might interested in her Facebook Winter Sowers group? Alot of people ask questions and you find alot of experiences and info, and just 'fun' postings over there. C'mon over and join

Pistil gave alot of sound advice/info above. I would not WS in jiffipots...they will dry out too fast, unless you keep them all in a larger bin and covered.
Some people have bought plastic bins and basically filled it with ziploc bags filled with soil and stood them up and planted seeds and you dont need too much "fancy stuff". Drainage is important, as is light, and moisture that nature provides.

Have you read the following information, which is some of my favorite I used last year (my first WS year) and still refer to:

http://www.agardenforthehouse.com/2012/11/winter-sowing-101-6/
I love this explanation/site because it walks you through step by step, and I was SO intrigued by the fact that you just pile the containers outside and let them be snowed on, etc.

http://www.agardenforthehouse.com/2013/02/perennials-which-require-cold-stratification/
A list of perennials that need the cold stratification process, so they are PRIME for WS'ing

Kevin at agardenforthehouse.com has more wintersowing pages you might want to look at. Trudi's site has more info as well, but Kevin covers all the basics.

Someone on the facebook group posted the other day and asked if she left pumpkins and squash outside to rot, would the seeds germinate. Trudi's answer was:
Any seeds that are fertile and not eaten, if in a place to safely germinate, remain moist with access to nutrients, have a good a chance of sprouting and growing. That's a lot of stuff to overcome. Winter Sowing works so well because the seeds are in a protective environment. Simply put--more survive winter to germinate in spring.

I thought of you when I read that. It's WS'ing in a nut shell, and why WSing can be so much easier than direct sowing. I tried a few direct sown seed areas this fall, but because rain can wash them out, critters can eat the seeds, wind can blow them away..and more...your results can be reduced quite a bit. Putting them in a container and WSing, they cant GO anywhere, be eaten, etc.

Does that help?

Val

Val that is a great link - explains my non-germination fails for a dozen species easily, and I thank you very much for the information.

Alice

Here I have tons of Blanket Flowers. I toss the seeds (direct sow the seeds every fall) but some may reseed or grow back from roots.

It is very hard, with DG PFs to tell what conditions a plant has been grown under. If I grow it as a houseplant I don't consider growabe in this area,.

Alice, what seeds do you have trouble with?

Alice (and all),

Another "from experience" note I can add is that when you WS, and it's May and things are not sprouting, dont give up. Put the containers in a semi shaded (not too hot) area and keep watering and let them be. I had so many containers that I started dumping out the ones that hadn't produced anything, and later realized from some of the containers I'd kept under a tree til I could get them planted thru early July that added things sprouted. Some things needs the warmth taht June brings...so dont toss them out. That's one of my important lessons from last year. :o)

1lisac, I'm assuming that Alice is referring to seeds that need the cold strtatifcation, and with her being in TX, perhaps you can give her added input (and/or use the fridge as the cooling phase)

Fridge isn't cutting it on cold stratification - I refrigerate all my seeds on the top shelf (where milk tends to freeze. Maybe they are bad seeds. They came from the feed store or somewhere on amazon. Lavender, Borage, and I can't quite remember the rest but basically I tried to start them this spring and I got nothing. I tried to start them in summer on the borage and I got nothing. I tried to start some other stuff too, will have to go through the refrigerator shelf which I will do when I get some jugs ready.

We will start having regular freezes here soon. I replanted other stuff in my lavender pots and nothing came up, I think I put lavender seeds in my east flower bed in midsummer and kept them moist and ended up growing some interesting weeds that I thought might be lavender until I got them ID'd. You could say I am a bit disappointed in my seed starting ability.

The seeds have to be planted, not just kept in the fridge. You realize that, right? Keeping your seeds in the fridge is fine as storage, but it doesnt do the cold stratification unless you have them planted.

hang in there, and dont give up. I have had bad seed experiences until I WS! and read alot on DG and internet,etc. and did successfully sow seeds inside.

I have heard people say that lavendar seeds are difficult to germinate.

What are you planning on planting this year? Maybe I could help if I knew what you're planting-??

Gypsi-
I will elaborate on what valal said- Just putting the seed packet into thefridge is not the same as cold stratification- the seeds must be moist and cold for that process to occur, Lots of ways to do it, including in potting soil, a little baggie with some perlite or vermiculite, moistened, or just in a baggie in a moist folded paper towel (this last is The Deno Method). In fact, for seeds that do not require a cold period, the Deno Method just on the kitchen counter is a great easy way to check and see if old seeds are viable-try this on your Borage which like room temperatures for sprouting.

now that is an idea. (baggie on counter with wet paper towel)

What I meant was that I don't do anything to stratify my seeds other then toss them where I want them to grow. We get enough natural cold to stratify them and there is moisture. I already have bluebonnet seedlings. People think of Tx as hot but it gets cold too, just not for long stretches of time thank goodness. Lol

I need to toss some mixed wildflowers out, haven't yet. I did toss poppy and larkspur seeds in my raised bed by the driveway. but they came from my own plants this summer and they are already up. Bluebonnets germinate but I haven't had one bloom out here yet, they would bloom for me in arlington, I think I watered more. Maybe this winter with the el nino

Thank you for the answers and suggestions. I will follow those links and continue reading. -Kel

Bluebonnets need to be sown in the fall/winter to bloom the next spring. They will die when it gets too hot.

is it already too late for bluebonnets? I think I planted them in November in Arlington. I planted early enough here last year but the drought nailed them, they never got over 2 inches in diameter and surely no blooms. (before I permacultured the lot to allow water to soak in before it ran off.)

I don't think it's too late. They can take up to 10 yrs to germinate so if they don't germinate this yr there is still hope. I haven't sowed any BB seeds this yr but I still have seedlings some are bigger and some are just sprouting.

well my old spot at the top of the hill if they didn't germinate they are gonna have to wait for me to take the pond underlayment and load of rock off top, because I absolutely gave up and got tired of weeds growing and flowers dwarfing, covered the whole area up. I will check the fridge for seeds tomorrow afternoon I hope.

I keep setting up for sowing , only it keeps getting warm again . won' be freezing until Dec 20th after tonight's 29
Looking like a warm rainy winter season coming for here , bad for winter stratifying ,

Lot of seeds germinate down to 20 , yikes ,,

Our lows are now in the 40's, gonna dig sweet potatoes instead