PLANT ADDICTS CHAT #8

No room for new woody plants
:^(

Neighbor gave me a potted Yucca guatemalensis. Nothing I've ever craved, but I might take it in, for the learning experience. Needs repotting badly, and is pale. Why bother? I dunno.

I hear you Sally. I have too many woodies as it is :) Coleup, make sure you have a pollination partner if you get those viburnums.

I get my V dentatum thrills in the wild. There are two HUGE ones on a trail we take the dog to. RIght at the edge of the marsh, which may tell you it likes water. (Hmmm, steal berries and grow my own? Oh yeah, refer back to where I said I don't have room...)

Seq what is a good pollination partner for either the V dentatun or the Brandywine?

Sally do the ones where you take Addy have lots of berries?

SSG hydrangea Pistachio is fabulous! I also like 'Wedding Gown' a double white lacecap.
http://www.ballornamentals.com/series_info.aspx?phid=034006008023007

TONS of berries. They sit about a foot above the water level. That's 'wet feet'

!http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1403615/

In order to tell you a good pollination partner for the V. dentatum, I would need to know the cultivar. The V. nudum 'Brandywine' is a pollination partner with the V. nudum 'Winterthur'. I have both those and the Brandywine is a knockout. There are tons of dentatum cultivars, of which I'm not super familiar although I did get 5 different cultivars this season.

My V. dentatum 'Chicago Lustre' is a heavy fruiter, even without a pollinator. It's fun to watch the birds go nuts over it.

Mine has never had good fall color. The leaves turn brown and just fall off. Seq, is that 'Brandywine' in your picture? That's a gorgeous fall color.

SSG, from what I understand of viburnums, you would have to have a pollination partner in the area. It's possible there is one that you don't know about. Not to mention V. dentatum species is native to the eastern US and could be in the area too.

Oh yeah, my bad. That is the Brandywine and the pic is from last week.

Sometimes I wonder if I should have gotten the Brandywine instead. Everything I read about it sounds wonderful.

The woods are two streets away, so it's possible I'm getting pollination from a 100 yards away. Some of my neighbors have viburnums but none that bloom at the same time as the V. dentatum. Not that I can see, anyway.

We'll see how mine do next year. I have a Moonglo, Red Feather, Autumn Jazz, deamii, and Northern Burgundy. You may ask why I just didn't get two different ones instead of five. The answer to that is I just like to try different plants and if I'm spending the money, I might as well get some variety and see how they do.

I could probably use a couple of hydrangeas will have to see what I like best.

I have a load of seeds from the Viburnum Brandywine.

Had them already last year at the Seed Swap. They were in a separate
container marked "New Seeds this Year"...
I am sure i will have it along for this year's Swap. G.

with these big spenders, I don't know they will want to grow a shrub from seed and wait 5? years for any bloom?
'chuckle'

Gita, that's good to know. I have been reading that Viburnums are hard to grow from seed and some can take up to four years to germinate!

SSG< if you had V 'Brandywine' instead of 'Chicago Lustre', you would also have a pollination partner, 'Winterthur' to find a space for. Where are you growing your Chicago Lustre? How much sun does it receive? Do you have to give it extra water to keep it happy?

Brandywine's fall color (as in Jeff's pic above) is really calling to me !!!

There was a time when I would have, all my big trees and shrubs were just tiny when they were planted 35-40 years ago. But not any more now I want big plants and shrubs, the years have gone by and now I don't feel like I have the time to wait and I want something that will fit in better size wise with the existing garden.

I have two kinds of Aloe. One has little rosettes and makes many side shoots with leaves up to 3 inches or so. The other had a single honkin big rosette with fat leaves now a foot long and they have barbs on the side. well, how hard can it be to figure out?

about 450 species hard!
http://www.succulentguide.com/cactus/?genus=Aloe

Haha...big spenders. Life's too short to wait for the shrub to grow from seed on purpose! I'll take a volunteer though and parent it to maturity ;-) I have three V. dilatatum seedlings right now that are first years.

Seq How old is your V 'Brandywine' ? Is it in full sun? Can you take a pic of your V 'Winterthur' for comparison please? Is that gallium growing under it?

I tried winter sowing some of Gita's 'Brandywine' viburnum seeds, no luck. I didn't know they could be slow germinators... I'll try again and will tuck the containers into the "nursery corner" if they don't sprout the first year!

Which viburnums want extra water? I have a Black Haw Viburnum (V. prunifolium) that's going on the far side of the tree line, unless it needs a moist spot. Missouri Botanical Garden site says it naturally occurs in moist locations but also notes it's drought tolerant. It's easier to move while it's still in the pot, LOL, so advice is appreciated!

Coleup, my 'Chicago Lustre' gets about 5 hours of sun. It's at the bottom of the hill where the soil never dries out. I don't have room for any more viburnums, though. I looked for a small V. dentatum as a pollinator for 'Chicago Lustre,' but dentatums don't come in dwarf sizes so I'm just glad mine fruits by itself.

The shrub/tree line around the perimeter is now fully planted, so the only way I can add a woody plant is if something dies, like they did quite a bit this year! This year's dead woodies included: redbud, native azalea, evergreen azalea, another rhodie, red twig dogwood, rose, caryopteris, mountain laurel. Sheesh, it's pretty sad seeing them listed like that.

Sally, I love aloe! All different kinds! I especially love the ones that grow in spirals.

I wouldn't grow a tree or shrub from seed. I don't find the wait enjoyable at all. I guess I'm too impatient! I do like growing certain perennials and edibles from seed, though. Oh wait, Japanese maples are fun to grow from seed! They grow so fast that it's not that different from growing a perennial from seed.

Wow SSG, you have quite the killbox in your yard. That's a long and sad list. Sorry for your struggles. The native azaleas are tough to grow I think. I've also had a caryopteris die on me and killed my share of rhodies.

Coleup, my Brandywine (BW) pretty much gets full sun all day long. It is right out in the front near the side walk and there's not much to block it. The sun probably shines on it from 10-dark. The Winterthur (WT) is probably 20ft away and looks similar in leaf and fall color but doesn't get many berries. I bought a V. nudum 'Augustifolium' this year to help out the WT in berries. Hopefully it works out. I don't have a pic of the WT but I can try for one this weekend. The sun is just coming up when I leave for work and it's dark when I come home. It does grow taller and more vase shaped than the BW though. It's about 4' now whereas the BW is only about 3'. Both were planted from 3 gal pots late summer 2013.

ssg, what a bad year you had!

I always have a natural redbud baby coming along, and volunteers baby dogwoods and hollies under the trees are standard. Sq, did I tell you I found the baby Mahonia bealei to nurture for you? It's tiny but at least one winter behind it already, so hopefully it's ready to shoot up- as much as M bealei can be said to do so.

I wonder if a tip cutting from the mature one would root over winter? Might stick one in the ground just for kicks.

I don't feel too bad about most of the ones on that list because they were in the two Death beds, where I expect most plants to die. The caryopteris was a surprise, because it had been doing so well. I had some sort of rot in the bed where the rose and dogwood died. An entire section of the bed just turned black, including some Joe Pye weed (which are usually hard to kill), lilies and salvia. The clay in the backyard is so rot-prone, even though it's heavily amended and slightly raised.

The witch hazel that I'm getting will go in one of the Death beds. It's a completely different type of woody from the previous attempts (rhodies, pieris, camelia), so I have high hopes for it.

Yeah thanks Sally. I'd definitely take it. I say that but if my plant takes a dump this winter I may rip it out and put in something else. The surviving plant put on a new shoot of growth late August and it still isn't hardened off. I'm worried about that shoot dying if we get a bad winter. The other side of the plant actually put up a flower bud cluster, which is super exciting as it hasn't successfully done that since before I moved it in the fall of '13.

SSG Yikes on the goners this year. Do list for us the woodies that thrive and survive in your yard.
Maybe one of us will have a clue to the whys and wherefores, or do you think it is all due to that phyto? disease? Many of those you list are ones that I grow in containers as my soil profile doesn't provide the kind of 'good drainage/consistently moist' conditions and unless I plant them high I get root rot/ fungus or something. Also wondering whether starting with a smaller plant of your list would see that plant's root system adapt as it grows to the conditions it finds rather than starting with a 'mature' plant with a more well developed root system and less adaptability? (Still quicker than from seed! lol)

I wanted to tell you all of a good deal at HD.
Have you noticed this product? It is a small, lt. green bag of compost,
It is by "Natures Care" and it says on the bag:
"Really Good Compost". Maybe 1cf. ?

It's original price was $4.97. Then I saw 2/$5. Now it is yellow-tagged
and costs only $1.30. I bought 10 bags of it.

***This link is NOT the one--but the bag looks just like it****

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Miracle-Gro-1-5-cu-ft-Nature-s-Care-Garden-Soil-with-Water-Conserve-71959120/205563818

This is interesting. As I was thinking of what grows well in my garden, I realized that Asian woodies (except for the Rhododendron genus) do well for me. Maybe because they're used to summer monsoon/floods in their native environment?

My best performing woodies, all native to East Asia:

Crepe myrtle
Japanese conifers (cryptomeria, chamaecyparis, Japanese holly)
Japanese beauty berry
Hydrangeas
Japanese maples
Pieris japonica (in certain parts of the yard)
Viburnums
Japanese spirea

Natives that do well:
Native viburnums
Native hydrangeas
Physocarpus opulifolius 'Summer Wine' (BEAUTIFUL and highly recommended!)

I've lost plants that were tiny as well ones that were already mature, so I don't think that has made a difference in survival rates.

edit #2!

This was the correct thread, after all.

Does anyone know how yucca would help with moisture conservation, as it says in the link that Gita provided?

This message was edited Nov 3, 2015 9:03 AM

Interesting on the asian woodies. Maybe your asian plants appreciate your shared heritage :-)

Haha, that's it! ;)

I actually would love a Japanese garden, like the gorgeous ones you see in the Pacific Northwest.

But the problem is that I also love tropicals, and the two styles don't look great together.

I have found that Japanese and native plants get along very well. We share a really similar climate (high humidity, really hot summers, cold winters). The main difference is that they get the most of their rainfall in the summer/fall and have pretty dry winters.

Interesting, I didn't know that. There are definitely some very nice Japanese plants out there.

SSG, I think you are on to something! Iwas thinking that your yard is one big container that tapla would say has perched water. And the perched water is higher after rain or watering (or monsoons and rainy season) so only plants that can tolerate same.

A friend with similar conditions built a 2 foot high raised bed in sections terraced down a slope all along her side yard backed by a 6' fence giving her 8' of 'privacy'. She could grow almost anything there. I'd take a pic but I don't think she lives there anymore. Nice height for gardening, too.

Thx, Gita! when you opened a bag, did it indeed look "really good?"

Yucca sends down long tap roots, which is why it's good for stabilizing dunes & slopes... not sure why it would "conserve" moisture, although it's a xeriscaping plant one established, so maybe that meant conserving water rather than irrigating.

Being a succulent plant they may mean that the plant conserves water (holds water) Plus it doesn't need to be watered often so you would not use as much water thus conserving water.????

A natural wetting agent is derived from the yucca plant and used to amend soils.
http://www.safergro.com/products/soil-amendments/natural-wet/

Hm. The description says that the compost includes yucca and coir which helps with moisture control. I can see how coco coir would help but yucca???

Ok interesting, coleup!

Isn't it better to stabilize a slope with a fibrously rooted plant?

Anyway, I think they include yucca root because the roots are good at storing water and releasing it over a period of time.

Also, I would think that yucca, being a fiberous plant would if ground up be like adding pine fines to improve water holding properties of soil.

Jeff, I think that deep rooted plants and grasses stabilize slopes better than fibrous rooted, but then I don't live in mudslide country.!

Coleup, you're absolutely right about how raising the bed improves plant performance.

This part of the yard had to be raised because it was already very low and the soil literally could not be dug. I would have needed a jackhammer. So I sheet mulched using leaves, leaf gro, coffee grounds, compost, etc, and the plants here do great. It's raised about a foot.

However, I still lost a rhodie and a mountain laurel in this bed!!

Oak leaf hydrangea.
Gigantic native honeysuckle. This needs to be cut back.
Climbing hydrangea in the background, various Heuchera, variegated Solomon's seal turning yellow
Pinky Winky hydrangea, red leafed Chinese woody plant whose name escapes me.
Various low growers that love this area.

Some of the other areas couldn't be raised as high due to rain drainage reasons or because I didn't know better when I got set up the beds.