neem oil not working!

I spent a lot of $ on neem oil for the white fly invasion, to no avail! I sprayed a leaf with them on it and pulled one off a few minutes later and it was still alive, it seems like the only thing the neem oil has done is killed my plants- cucumber and tomato, kale and others. I am angry! Why hasn't anyone come up with a way to kill those suckers? I have tried vacuuming them off and put yellow cards w/ petroleum jelly on them, out, and there seems to be more every day! I am a failure at gardening. :(

hours later they were still alive , so I sprayed a lot more and they were swimming around!?

Here's the deal with Neem oil:

It is not a contact poison, the insects die when they eat a plant treated with Neem oil. That's why its such great stuff - it won't kill the good bugs, just the sucking bugs.

Not all Neem oil is created equally. Look for 100% Neem with no added ingredients. Yes, its expensive. Follow the label's dilution instructions.

The best time to spray your plants with Neem is when they are first planted - so just seedlings. The Neem is absorbed by the plant and spraying never has to be repeated. Its not toxic to anything but insects.

If you had sprayed the Neem when your plants were seedlings, it would be working now. The only thing to do at this point is wait for the Neem to be absorbed by the plants and start working. Its not as effective after the insect infestation has begun.

You have to spray the Neem at night or on a cloudy day because, combined with the sun, it will burn your plants.

Hope this helps,

Daisy

Any insecticidal oil (including neem oil ) will smoother or suffocate all insects. White flies can be very hard to get rid of. It is best to use in the early morning so it will be dry when the beneficials and the heat are out. But it does kill on contact but maybe not white flies. Sorry : (.

No, it doesn't kill on contact.

http://www.discoverneem.com/neem-oil-insecticide.html

Just reading what the bottle in my hand says.

This message was edited Aug 10, 2015 6:45 PM

Also, you need to read the whole article. It says, towards the bottom, Neem Oil suffocates insects and the next section say Neem Oil and Beneficial insects. it will kill both on contact.

This is the exact article I went to to check the info on my bottle....bc it didn't make sense to me.

After it has dried it is no longer harmlful to beneficials.

I've always used it BEFORE the insects showed up and have had great success.

I think you ( the OP) didn't do enough research, which left you expecting more than the product promises.

Something I wrote a few years ago:

Neem Extract as an Insecticide


In India mainly, but also Asia and Africa, grows a tree all plant enthusiasts should be aware of, Azadirachta indica, commonly known as the "neem" tree, and a relative of mahogany. Extracts from the tree’s seeds contain azadirachtin, a relatively safe and effective naturally occurring organic insecticide. Let me preface the comments following, by reminding you that the terms "naturally occurring and/or organic" do not universally mean safe. Pyrethrums, rotenone, and even the very dangerous nicotine are all organic insecticides that should be handled with great caution. Neem extracts, on the other hand are very safely used in a wide variety of cosmetics, as a topical treatment for minor wounds, as an insecticide in grain storage containers, bins, and bags, and a whole host of other applications. Neem is very safe for use around birds & mammals. I'll limit this discussion to its use as an insecticide.

Neem works in many ways. It is effective both in topical and a systemic applications. It is an anti-feedant, an oviposition deterrent (anti-egg laying), a growth inhibitor, a mating disrupter, and a chemosterilizer. Azadirachtin, a tetranortriterpenoid compound, closely mimics the hormone ecdysone, which is necessary for reproduction in insects. When present, it takes the place of the real hormone and thus disrupts not only the feeding process, but the metamorphic transition as well, disrupting molting. It interferes with the formation of chitin (insect "skin") and stops pupation in larvae, thus short-circuiting the insect life cycle. It also inhibits flight ability, helping stop insect spread geographically.

Tests have shown that azadirachtin is effective in some cases at concentrations as low as 1 ppm, but some producers use alcohol in the extraction of neem oil from plant parts which causes the azadirachtin to be removed from the oil. Some products touting neem oil as an ingredient actually have no measurable amounts of azadiractin. I use what is referred to either as cold pressed or virgin neem oil. You may also occasionally find it referred to as "raw" neem or "crude" neem oil.

Neem oil is most often used in an aqueous (water) suspension as a foliar spray or soil drench. Commonly, it is diluted to about a .5 to 2% solution, but the suggested ratio for use in container plant culture is 1 tsp. per quart of warm water. A drop or two of dish soap (castile or olive oil soap is best) helps keep the oil emulsified. The mixture is then applied as a mist to all leaf and bark surfaces and as a soil drench to the tree's root system. It should not be applied as a foliar spray on hot days or in bright sun as leaf burn may occur. Remember to agitate the container frequently as you apply and do not mix anymore than you will use in one day. Neem breaks down rapidly in water with a pH above 7.0 and/ or sunlight.

Some users of insecticides feel the need to observe the instant results of their efforts in order to be convinced of the effectiveness of what they are using. The application of neem derivatives does not provide this immediate gratification. There is virtually no knockdown (instant death) factor associated with its use. Insects ingesting or contacting neem usually take about 3 - 14 days to die. Its greatest benefit; however, is in preventing the occurrence of future generations. It is also interesting to note that in studies it was found that when doses were given, purposefully insufficient to cause death or complete disruption of the metamorphic cycle, up to 30 surviving generations showed virtually no resistance/ immunity to normal lethal doses, so it appears that insects build no ‘resistance’ to azadiractin.

I have been using neem oil for 15 years as both a preventative and fixative and have had no insect problems on my container plants. Applications of cold-pressed neem oil are most effective for use on mites, whitefly, aphids, thrips, fungus gnats, caterpillars, beetles, mealy bugs, leaf miners, g-moth, and others. It seems to be fairly specific in attacking insects with piercing or rasping mouth parts. Since these are the pests that feed on plant tissues, they are our main target species. Unless beneficial like spiders, lady beetles, certain wasps, etc., come in direct contact with spray, it does little to diminish their numbers.

Neem oil does have an odor that might be described as similar to that of an old onion, so you may wish to test it first, if you intend to use it indoors. I've found the odor dissipates in a day or two. As always, read and follow label instructions carefully.

Neem oil can be purchased from many net or local sources. My favorite brand is Dyna-Gro, pure, cold-pressed neem oil.

Al

This message was edited Aug 11, 2015 8:53 PM

This message was edited Nov 28, 2015 2:03 PM

Thank You!

I understand all that but like Tapla says it will kill beneficials that come in direct contact with it. That was the point that was in dispute and Tapla just reiterated it. They may take a few days to die, but the bottom line is it does kill on contact, as long as it is wet.

That's exactly what that site says, if you read the whole thing.

I don't believe the statement that it doesn't kill on contact is true, and everything I've read, including tapla's extensive information, says it WILL kill on contact.

This message was edited Aug 11, 2015 6:38 PM

Okay....... Back to the poor posters plants. (Wow, say that 10 times fast) Neem is great. I do use neem in my garden and try to only use neem, but it does take time. The best possible thing to do it use it from when the plants are seedlings. I live in South Florida which is also a whitefly apocalypse zone. If you are using neem properly it will work, but it will take a little while for you to notice. If you think the plants can survive while the neem takes time to work that's great. If action needs to be taken soon another product may need to be used once or twice. Spray neem one week and whatever insecticide the next and then go back to neem and so on until your plants are out of the woods.... I've had to do this when I got busy with work and put off the neem until the whiteflies took over. (which happens fast in the tropics as we both know)

Oh and it can kill the good bugs if you sprayed directly on them. This along with the leaf burn are the reasons it needs to be used in the evening or early enough in the morning so that it is dry by the time the sun hits the plants. I prefer the evening because it is safer, bees tend to start their work pretty early. Also your humidity is probably very high just like mine so the neem takes longer to dry in the morning. Just my two cents.....

I will try to clear up the killing the good guys issue, although I am no expert. The reason neem works better on the bad bugs is because they feed on our plants...... hence being known as the bad guys. Neem, as well as any oil, has the ability to suffocate insects (who "breath through their skin") if the insect is covered. Neem has been shown to be "relatively safe" to beneficial insects "when used responsibly". Because the hormone affecting part of neem oil affects the bugs that eat the plant if a bee lands on a wet flower and then goes on her way, it will most likely be fine. But why chance it?? Spray in the early evening, don't spray directly on bugs you want, and you will be good.

In Texas we have a native lantana. It supposedly draws whiteflies, meaning hopefully they prefer it to yours. Planted separately at a distance from desirable plants can give you an edge in a whitefly infestation. They still need eradicated to control the infestations, but coupled with the early apps of neem oil, perhaps less damage will result. Sad at your infestation- this was a horrid year for plants at my house as well.

Thanks to everyone for the info about Neem oil. I'd given up on it, but may try it again on selected plants and wait for it to be absorbed into the plant.

But I have a point about white flies. After years (decades?) of spraying madly with this and that on my hibiscus (several times resorting to pulling off EVERY LEAF - which works for a while), I used horticultural oil, and it worked like a charm.

LAS

I used neem oil once but have since used horticultural oil with better results as well. To me though, (I am not familiar with whitefly) the bugs you showed in your picture, plucker, your bugs look like mealies. For those, I have found that in the middle of the growing season when other treatments are ineffective, a dilution of vinegar works well.
Just a thought.

Have you tried epsom salt? I sprinkle that around my flowers outside and it gets rid of lots of bugs, plus the plants love it. I had aphids and some kind of little worms in my perenniaIs and it got rid of all of them.

Careful if you use vinegar it will kill your lawn and possibly some of your plants especially if it is to strong.

I have a question for those of you who also use neem oil. One of the nursery workers was telling me that the PH of the water you use needs to be a certain acidity in order for neem to really work. They were telling me to test the water before mixing and get it to a certain PH. Has anyone heard of this before?

Epsom salts should not be used haphazardly, and there are no known insecticidal properties associated with MgSO4 when used at rates consistent with good plant health. While Epsom salts can cause a plant to turn very green, "green" doesn't mean good health when it comes at the cost of toxic amounts (an excess) of magnesium. Excess magnesium can cause antagonistic deficiencies of many nutrients, but especially (Ca)lcium, which is needed in the nutrient stream at all times if cells are to be formed normally. Also, unless there is an actual deficiency of Mg, adding Epsom salts unnecessarily raises the EC/TDS of the soil solution, which makes it more difficult for the plant to take up water and therefore, the nutrients dissolved in that water.

Many insecticides that use "NEEM" in their name have some azadiractin (neem's active ingredient) + other insecticides (like insecticidal soap, permethrin, et al) to provide the instant knockdown neem lacks. These topical chemicals are more likely to affect beneficial populations than the neem oil itself.

pH is based on a logarithmic scale from 1 to 14. Where a pH of 7 is neutral, a pH of 6 is 10 times more acidic than a pH of 7. Many insecticides are sensitive to pH levels because of something called hydrolysis, which is a chemical process whereby larger molecule with insecticidal properties are broken (cleaved) into smaller (ionic) particles that may lack any insecticidal properties when they recombine with other smaller particles. How much effect hydrolysis has insecticides depends on the insecticide's chemistry, water pH, water temp, exposure to sunlight, and how long the mixture has been in the spray container.

Neem oil is susceptible to alkaline hydrolysis, which means that a pH greater than 7.0 causes degradation, so adjusting your spray water to a pH from 5.5 - 6.5 for neem products is beneficial; whereas some pesticides are affected by acid hydrolysis at pH levels below 7.0, so they should be mixed with water adjusted to pH levels from 7.5 - 8. In either case, the sooner you use the spray mixture, the more effective it will be. White vinegar or citric acid (from a wine-making supply store) are very effective at reducing water's pH.

Al

This message was edited Nov 29, 2015 12:16 PM

Wow Tapla, thanks. You definitely know what you are talking about. A big thank you from a beginner who is trying to figure all this stuff out. :-) Especially since it is our growing season here in zone 10 while most other places are too cold. :-p