Last month, I planted 5 four o'clock tubers and only one just came up last week. I dig the tubers up each fall and store them in a cardboard box lined with newspaper in a dark place. The tubers are about 3 years old. Should I give the other ones some time? It's been a month already! Photo was taken last summer of one of the healthy plants.
Takes a while for things to "come up" sometimes.....I think they need to be WS.
They ARE biennial.
Sow your seeds outside in late fall and let mother Nature take care of them.
Once you have 4's--the amount of seeds they drop is crazy!
You will bw pulling seedlings up forever. They look just like Morning glories.
Keep track of WHERE you had your 4's.!
2--I have dug up 4's roots after 2 years of growing, and they were a massive clump.
I put them in a container with a bit of soil around them, and waited.
Before too long--but long enough--I saw little green nubs coming out of the clump.
I understand that in warmer zones you can leave them in the ground and they will
come back every year to the point of becoming monstrous.
I usually just plant them from seed.
1--These are dug up tubers after just ONE year's growth --(2008)
2 & 3--These are 2 year old tubers dug up and stored in my basement,
Brought them out in April. I put some soil in a shallow tray around the tuber
and just waited. It took a long while--but, eventually, there were new green
sprouts showing.
Crazy how huge the roots can get in just 2 years!!!!!
All I can say is--BE PATIENT! Gita
You're right, Gitagal, that those of us who live in warmer climates just leave the 4 o'clocks in the ground. There are some that are growing wild in the alley behind my neighbor's garage amongst a lot of weeds, acorns that are becoming oaks, etc. For the last year or 2, I have been collecting as many seeds as I could find. In fact, I was a little worried that I might have gone wild and not left any for the plant to use, having wrongly assumed it only re-seeds itself. Now that I've seen your pictures of the tubers, well that's a whole 'nother story.
I was in the alley a few days ago and saw where this small neglected plant had grown into a huge bush and had started flowering. Here in Dallas we essentially had what would be a year's worth of rain just in the month of May. I'm guessing that's why it is turning into a giant bush. And blooming much earlier than usual.
So I think you just need to be patient, jm167. Your 4's will be back. You won't be able to get rid of them. And the ones you have are a glorious color!
Here is how you can tell the difference between 4's from seed--
and Morning Glories from seed. As they sprout--they look identical.
The difference is apparent when the 2nd set of leaved appears.
1--These are M.G. seedlings
2--These are 4'Oclock seedlings.
The 4's second seeds are pointed. The M.G. seeds are rounded.
So--now you can tell and not pull up he wrong ones. Gita
Ok. Now I have a question or more for y'all. The 4s in the alley will eventually be gone. My neighbor, bless him, died 3 years ago in August. His house is still in probate but when it eventually sells, I have no doubt that it will be razed along with all the stuff in the alley. (I liberated some irises back there a few years ago.) So . . . how hard would it be to dig up some of these 4's to transplant? Now that I've seen those giant tubers from Gitagal's pictures, I might be able to give it a try. Plus I can neglect them as much as my neighbor had done. I'm good at that.
Since these are surrounded and invaded by weeds (I know, one person's weed is another plant), I had thought that I was looking at a 'shallow' plant, not one very deep rooted and definitely not one growing from a tuber. I have a plenty of space for them to grow and multiply. So . . .
1. Can I transplant or do I need to start with seeds?
2. If I can transplant, then given what our normal summers are like (brutal), should I wait until fall, whenever that might be?
3. I don't remember how long these 4's continue blooming, but if I can transplant, should I wait until they stop blooming? I would normally think so, but given our climate and the possibility of the 'estate' coming out of probate (it will then sell within days), I don't want to lose the whole mother ship.
4. How important is it, whether from seed or tubers, to try to plant in a very similar area?
Thanks for any advice you can help me with.
And since I've only spent time in the western side of Canada (mostly BC and the Yukon, but a little bit of Alberta), I'm curious where London, ON is, jm167. North, south, east, west, or mid ON? And if ON doesn't mean Ontario, never mind, that's my bad.
London is in Southwestern Ontario (zone 6B). Transplanting should be safe; I take mine out before the first frost (usually mid october). Tubers won't survive in the ground here with our cold and snowy winters. I never wait until they stop blooming. I just dig the entire plant from the ground, and snip the stem close to the tuber.
I do hope my other tubers are okay! I've heard they can take quite some time to pop up! I did start about 40 verrigated ones from seed so I do have back-ups!
tx_flower_child--
Since you are asking me--I can just tell you what i would do---OK?
I don't think it is worth the time and effort to dig up the old tubers.
Instead--IF you like those 4's so much--I would go gather some seeds
and grow new plants from them.
I can vouch from experience that a seed-grown 4'Oclock will attain a
massive size in just one season. About 3' x 3'.
Here--in Baltimore--the seeds start ripening in late September to -October.
Now--you and I are in different zones. Mine is 7a--yours must be 8 or 9?
SO--I would start your seeds either earlier--indoors--or just drop the seeds
where you want them to grow around October.
4's drop a load of seeds every season. If it is growing in decent soil,
those seeds will sprout all over--even in your lawn.
OK! Now to get back to your questions--but I think I already answered some of them.
1--Start with seeds....
2--As I said--i would not bother transplanting the old tubers.
3--IF you are set on digging up and transplanting the tubers--yes! I would do it
when the plant has stopped blooming and is going dormant.
PS--I have read that if you let a 4's plant grow again and again over the years--
it will be impossible to dig it up and transplant it. Just look how big the roots
I showed you got in just one--and in two years. I would Google it and read up on this.
4--As I said--I would plant them from seed-the plant will be "fresher" that way.
As long as your 4 gets some sun, I don't think it matters. They will grow anywhere.
I would put the 4-O'clock in the category of a "garbage plant"...like a Morning Glory..
>b>Invasive....one has to spend lots and lots of time puling up the seedlings from everywhere.
The "4" I have grown has always been the "Broken Colors". The blooms come out every
which color--or a mix of colors. That what makes this one interesting, Google this one!
Here are some pictures of mine--several years ago....like, 207--2009.
Pic. #3 shows just TWO 4'Oclocks grown from seed. See!! You will have
a large plant in just one season. Note the asst. color changes from the same plant.
Pic. #4 shows where the seed sits when it is ripe. If you do not collect it--
it will just roll of and fall to the ground. MORE seedlings next year!
Gita
Hi Gita, I have never had luck with 4'oclocks planted by seed to get to their fullest height within the first year. Theu are always planted in full sun. Here, they are not invasive and do not seed themselves as the seeds won't last through the winter. I've saved tubers up to a maximum of 10 years and it usually takes 3 years to see them reach their full potential height. Maybe it's different depending on which zone you are in.
Btw Gita, beautiful colours you have there!
Yes! I think the zone makes a big difference. You are zone 6b.
I can only speak of the zone I live in. 7a.
Texas may be a lot more tropical. Zone 8 or 9???
Everyone has to research their own zones when it comes to plants.
Gita
DG can be so annoying. Or maybe it's just my memory is so annoying. I wrote a reply much early and in the middle of it went back up to look at the pics of your 4s and that of course made me lose what I had been writing. Grrr.
Yep. Zone makes a big difference. I'm in Zone 8a and I 'think' that's considered North Central Texas. There many microclimates in our state and sometimes within just one city.
Having read your opinion, etc, I agree that if I plant, I should do it by seed. At the moment I have 5 lonesome little seeds, one of which I think I maybe picked before it was totally ripe. I appreciate that you posted a picture of a seed. I could have used that a few years ago. I gave away a lot of seeds to DG friends in the Dallas - Ft. Worth area. And I'm a little surprised that they wanted them b/c most of the peeps already had some.
I love your variegated ones. Do they get that way from (how to put this?) fraternizing with their neighbors?
Happy gardening everyone.
tx_flower_child
I have a slew of seeds for the Broken Colors "4"---but the are a few tears old,
I would be glad to mail you some for postage. D-mail me if you are interested.
Last year--I got some sprouts from my daughter, who had gotten this plant from ME.
Odd as it may seem--all the flowers on this "4" were yellow. HUH????
I have a load of seedlings coming up from it. I am going to let a couple of them
grow out. Will see what comes from it.
YES! I have also lost my total Post many times. beats me how and why that happens.
Happy 4th! .............OH! OH! I could send you some 4 seeds to the "4"'s on the 4th!!!
joke! I have loads of seeds...
Gita
Gita - Thanks for the offer. I am going to a plant swap this weekend and anything and everything might be there. I may contact you in the future.
I have not been able to put a name to the color of the 4s in the alley. Not peach. Not coral. Not pink. I've even put a flower next to a color wheel and no such luck. If you would like to gamble, I could send you some 4 seeds to the "4"'s on the 4th!
No thanks--TX--I really do not have room in my beds for anything that big.
I live in a development. been here 47 years. My beds are all along the walls
of the house--as that is what i thought beds were supposed to be.
I literally have to dig something older out to plant something new, somewhere.
About 4 years ago--I had a raised bed built along the back of my property line.
The man also put in a nice 6' shadow fence behind it to "frame it better. I like it!
Partially to hide my back yard neighbor's junk he keeps behind HIS garage--
but also b/c I wanted to use that bed to grow my Tomatoes etc in.
The problem started right away. I ordered a couple c.y.'s of top soil to fill this bed.
When we were shoveling this soil onto the bed--I thought it smelled bad...rancid...
Not at all like a good garden soil would smell.
Eventually, it became apparent that I had gotten just what I asked for--TOP SOIL--
which is nothing more than fill dirt. It should have been "GARDEN SOIL!!!
I have been amending it ever since--but it is NOT good enough yet. My tomatoes never
did well in there. Not enough sun either.
SO! Now I am planting this and that in there just to fill it--but still look decent.
That is why I am growing some 4's and a couple Daturas in there. Also some day Lilies.
Some marigolds along the front and all that....
Besides--having a "4" means daily collecting of seeds so you don't end up with 9000 seedlings.
Here is the bed in the back, My yard is not very big anyway.
#2 is a pic of my Patio which is awqsone. i can work there even if it rains.
Also--between my 2 big Maples--it can be 10* cooler there as soon as i round the corner.
Very nice. Mine should look even half, no, a fourth, no a sixteenth as good. I don't mind that I don't have a lawn per se b/c my philosophy is 'if you mow it and it looks green, then what the heck!'
My front yard is small and that's where there's a ginormous grandiflora magnolia. I know the tree has gotta be older than my house (built in '47) b/c it's in the middle of the yard and thus I don't have a sidewalk that goes to my front door. All of the other houses in my neighborhood have sidewalks that go to their front doors. So I've got some grass and other stuff that's green when mowed, and a ground cover that I wish someone had warned me about. Purple winter creeper. It's like having trip wires everywhere.
My 2 giant red oaks are on opposite sides of the back. Plus it was probably a passing bird that planted the 5 Chinese Pistache trees in the far back corner. They're pretty in the fall when the leaves turn gold, but basically they are considered 'trash trees'.
And then there's my fence. My poor sad fence. Rotting. Falling down. I got a bunch of quotes maybe 4 or so years ago to just totally remove one side (some idiots put up their own fence inches from mine), to replace the back and the opposite side fence. Think the cheapest quote was around $7200. Decided to wait. And now, since I don't really know if the side fence that badly needs replacing is mine or my dead neighbor's, I'm hoping that when his property is out of probate that a new owner will tear that part of the fence down and replace it with a new one.
You're lucky that you can sit outside. We have about 2 days a year when the weather would allow us to. And today's not one of them It's a mere 99 degrees outside. And humid.
So that's my tale of woe. Poor, poor, pitiful me. :D
Gotta get back outside to put down some mulch. We might get rain tomorrow so there are some places that have to be filled in. Yesterday.
I did get 1 more 4 oc seed a little bit ago. And picked a magnolia for some neighbors. And, better yet, saw that one of the pods on one of my milkweed plants aka Asclepias tuberosa popped open so I quickly got as many seeds as I could.
Time now to go back out, fight the heat and the skeeters, and put down the mulch.
I adore daturas and maybe later I might tell you how a friend and I 'discovered' them back in the 70s. (Yes, I'm that old.)
Thanks for posting the pics. I'm definitely envious. (Feel your pain tho about dirt vs soil.) Later.
Gita- The whole backyard is awesome, in my opinion. I do think the little fence was inspired, and does hide any junk that might be there.
TXfc- I think you might just try digging up the 4 in the alley since you love the color. What's the loss if it does not work? Do it anytime, as you say the house is a tear-down and may be razed tomorrow. I dug one up once-it was 2 years old and was enormous. Probably just a few of the tubers would be sufficient to start anew, I doubt you need the whole thing. I used to live in Dallas-I recall the skeeters, heat and especially the FIRE ANTS!
Also, in regards to the fence- I needed a new one when I moved in here, and the cost was shared by my neighbors 50-50. If the two fences were torn down and replaced by one it might be slightly less expensive because access would be easier.
Besides.......
Anyone installing a new fence HAS TO locate the property markers. it is required.
Then you will find out exactly where your property line is.
TX--you think we don't have temps in the 90's???? We have been in a heat wave
for a month now. High 80's and 90'd--and 100* last Tuesday.
The worst is also the humidity. We always have high humidity here.
My dehumidifier pumps out over 2 gal. of water every day--just from the humidity.
I am an old geezer too---78. I live alone--(long divorced) have the house and the
yard to care for--and everything else that needs be done.
Yes! I do have a decent yard and lots of flowers.
I still work at a Home Depot PT in Garden. Spend most of my days there watering all the
tables-full of pants. Some days--I do it 8 hrs. straight (minus lunch)... Been there 17 years.
Just mowed thew lawn--I was drenched when i finished. That is what high humidity does.
Do you have that problem too--or is your air mostly dry?
Gita
Oh, no. We're talking humid. And now it's raining. Not that rain is bad, but it wasn't supposed to rain until tomorrow. So there I am, doing a few this's and that's and starting to get some mulch down, and I hear thunder. I starting yelling 'No! Not yet!' and got a few more bags of mulch down. But I also had to bring some baby plants (still rooting in 'Dixie' cups) inside before the rain.
I'm generally a night owl but am feeling whipped from all that mulch. Think I got 7 bags down.
BTW, I didn't think 8 hours a day is considered part time.
This message was edited Jun 29, 2015 3:00 PM
So I have an update to the original post regarding my concerns about the four o'clock tubers I planted a little over a month ago. I dug them up to check to see if they had any sign of life and they were all rotted! I'm puzzled as this has never happened before; the tubers were 3 years old and they weren't planted in a overly-wet area. They were planted in full-sun, watered lightly a few times a week.
I'm in Ontario, Canada (zone 6b), so they are stored inside for the winter in a dry and dark place (cardboard box with newspaper).
One of the 5 I planted managed to survive! Has this sort of thing happened to anyone before?
I did start a lot from seed early this spring so it's not a huge loss for me. Another question. Will it shock my new plants if I wish to dig them up (the seedlings are about a month old) and transplant them to a different location in the same garden, or is the root system to fragile?
This message was edited Jun 28, 2015 8:28 PM
This message was edited Jun 28, 2015 8:31 PM
So sorry to hear about your 4s. Maybe someone else on DG can help.
(Thanks for getting us back on track.)
I think I'm going to try storing my tubers in peat moss this winter in the garage. The ones that never came up were stored in a dark, dry place in a cardboard box at room temperature. Perhaps this will better preserve the tubers.
This message was edited Jul 16, 2015 9:44 PM
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