Unique trees; If I Only Had The Room

Wow, I'm loving this Mipii-VV intellectual jousting, especially because no matter which side of the fence I lean towards, any failure of specimen plants to thrive is not my fault !! NB: I am NOT being sarcastic.

Thanks, Mipii, but I can't take too much credit for my Rhododendron 'Cunningham's White'; it has thrived on neglect. It definitely likes where it's growing, a NW-facing sheltered moist place.

Oh Muddy, as the underdog...I'm dancing up a storm in my corner warming up...

water...I need some water over here.

Quietly pondering the possible comeback…
A tree which would normally sprout up in between other trees, shrubs, undergrowth, whatever….who is to say that is NOT its optimal condition. A specimen out in the middle of a lawn, for one thing, does not have the same soil microbiology going on, I believe. According to some reading, soil fungi in woodland are different from those in grassland, and woody plants are adapted to those fungi that proliferate with leaf litter and its high carbon content.
Without the competition of other trees, this specimen may be growing a much heavier branch load than is normal, like an overfed chicken. THey both look "fat" and 'thriving' in our subjective view, but are they really healthy? Maybe not.

(Feeling discussion-mentative, if not actually argumentative, having been watching the GMO OMG thread lively discussion elsewhere on DG.)

The comeback will be on this new thread here:
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1347306/
Oh great Sally, like VV needs more fodder. Hoping he doesn't see this response of yours and I can quietly evaluate your quietly ponderance, turn it around to benefit my point...wish me luck!

Dagnabbit...

VV what are you doing here? Don't you have work to do?

Ha ha very funny Mipii!

Sally, you got me to thinking. This photo shows the lower part of our backyard before we bought our house. Of all the trees in the photo, only 2 are left: a red maple in the center position on the left side of the photo, and a (then) very small Japanese Maple growing right against our shed on the right side.

We had a row of 7 white pines on the left, and they became very "thin"; only a little bit of green was left at the top by the time I had all but one of them cut down. I had them cut down because their "fat" specimen sibling in the front yard dropped half of its trunk on my house. The ones in the back had no heavy limbs left, so probably didn't pose a real threat, but I found them guilty by association.

The remaining red maple is really half of a tree because it didn't develop limbs on one side due to the heavy competition from the pines and 2 other maples. It's not an attractive tree, but when I look at it I usually think 1) not likely to damage my house and 2) good shelter for birds so 3) I don't really care what it looks like but 4) I could plant a tree beside it to make it look better.

This message was edited Jan 12, 2014 8:15 PM

Hey VV - I have an American Holly that is about 40' tall. Lovely! Holds its own against more exotic trees...yes indeedy it does.

I had the distinct pleasure of touching the ancient "knees" of Catalpa tree yesterday, a witness tree to the War Between the States, and seeing others in the last few years, and you know what? Jeese, I really would LOVE one of those things! That bloom looks so much like an orchid...they seem just as much a landmark of Southern States as the classic Magnolia...so this is MY choice for a special tree if I had the room (not to mention the TIME to see it grow to maturity).

Oh boy Gracye. Catalpa is one heck of a messy tree!

Here's another Witness Tree for you. Antietem. I have two Sycamores but not the beautiful creek to water them or room for them to get to six feet diameter!

Until you plant it, you'll never see it. Go for it...Catalpas are excellent tough long-lived trees.

And stop being a tease! Show us images of that regal American Holly. Sounds like it deserves its own thread.

Messy is as messy does.

One should quantify what one means when castigating Catalpa - or any other tree that one might consider "messy".

I wouldn't want one in my kitchen (oops - make that Marianne's kitchen), but I don't think I would have any objection to using it in almost any other situation that calls for a starkly architectural coarsely branched tree, with large coarse-textured foliage, exuberantly large and fragrant early summer flowers, green-beans-on-steroids seed pods, and host to one of the biggest fattest greenest native caterpillars there are.

Not that far off from a Sycamore's attributes, at that.

Hey, anybody who happily hosts Sycamores clearly isn't completely anti mess. But yeah, some people would be put off by the detritus of flowers and pods on sidewalk or deck. Keep it in my mown areas, and I can live and let live.

Describe to me that plant that does not produce flowers and other reproductive parts which forthwith fall upon whatever lays below its boughs.

I postulate that it is a matter of perception. One may find it phenomenal to have the spent catkins etc. of a grand oak or beech fall upon one's deck/sidewalk (or clog one's gutters and/or HVAC units). One may also find it an honor to twist one's ankle or fall on one's posterior via the nascent posterity units - acorns, beechnuts - that have been cast about.

It's all detritus - even if it fell off a Rafflesia or Wollemia. It's all in the eye of the beholder. It's all good.

Haha fine you win!

No one will mistake me for a neat freak but people who like their sidewalks clean and dry and their lawn green and debris free should plant carefully. Or not at all really.

Now who has another unique dream tree to post?

Thanks for providing both pics Sally, I couldn't tell the caliper from the first one. Love the bridge too.

Yes Grayce, please post 40' Holly pics!

I'm not a history buff but you can't fail to be moved by a visit to Antietem
http://www.nps.gov/anti/index.htm
The tree is a solid five feet across. There's a drawing of the battle in which the tree looks quite young- 30 years? making it nearing two centuries. The bridge goes over a placid, broad shallow creek. It is an incredibly peaceful setting.

Maryland's deceased former state tree , the Wye Oak, covered a third of an acre and was over 400 years old- but this article describes the extensive cabling and care it needed in later decades. The last paragraph is interesting.

http://www.dnr.maryland.gov/naturalresource/fall2002/wyeoak.html

Wonderful stories, Sallyg - thanks for sharing.

I think Sweetgum is a unique tree for its fall foliage- every color at once- but I'll never plant one unless I have the room. Room for a tree far away that I don't have to walk under. Those spiny balls are not fun for walking on or raking.

I asked dear Hubby to take a photo of it tomorrow, the holly, that is. Now, YOU ALL, I didn't say that I was talking REALITY when I was waxing poetic about the Catalpa...but, every time I go to some historic old plantation, say, 1700's era, there's usually at least ONE of those old, gnarley, Catalpa trees, with so much wisdom and personality...you just GOTTA appreciate it! Those flowers look so much like orchids to me - what a combination - the exotic, tropical-looking bloom, the harsh color and texture of the bark, the weird way the thing grows, comic-looking foliage, and then, the topper - even the FRUIT has quite a few names, and I dare you to come up with another tree/shurb/etc., that can come NEAR the common name of "Fish Bait Tree." JEESE! How can you NOT appreciate a being like THIS? And didn't I hear something about it being invasive to boot! LOL! What a tree! Are you all laughing?!

Take Southern Magnolias - I splurged last year and bought a BIG ONE...even though I know that it has many non-pleasantries, but well, there is NOTHING like the grand Southern Magnolia, like there is nothing like an ancient Boxwood...you know?

Whatever the problems, the overall personality of the tree/shrub, etc., is what makes it unique. And, if that tree/shrub/whatever adds a certain atmosphere to the land it is on, so be it! So the Southern Catalpa, so the Southern Magnolia...what's Williamsburg without boxwoods? And what a weird odor they have - took my whole life and living 20 years in Arizona to come back to Virginia and appreciate the "scent."

Thanks for the witness tree pics, sallyg. I'm a Living Historian for The War Between the States, wear cage crinolines and carry parasols, and yes, wear silk ball gowns, all in support of our country. So I'm quite apt to run into Catalpas and honkin' boxwoods and those grand Magnolias...ah! Nothing like being able to be amongst witness trees, or just plain ole' trees with so much character...!

Now I'm trying to figure out where I can plant a Catalpa...

We visited Antietam this past summer. Its pastoral beauty makes the carnage inflicted there almost unfathomable. I wonder if God was there on September 17, 1862?

I'm thinking that there should be a Witness Tree Thread. I'll go back to Chatham Manor in Fredericksburg and get photos of the two Catalpas that stand, side by side.

And yes, Pseudo, I'm quite sure that God was at Antietam, to hear the prayers of those involved, and to lift from Earth the souls torn too soon (by our expectations).

Yes Pseudo i fully agree.
There is a very moving quote from a doctor on the scene. I can look in my pictures for it but dont want to hijack this thread.

Sally, maybe you could send it to me via D-Mail. It would be wrong to veer off topic by an inappropriate reference.

By all means hijack the thread, if it veer, it veers...it's all good!

I would just as soon leave the Southern Magnolias. That is one tree I hate, it started from a time as a young child playing at my fathers parents house in Alabama, their magnolia trees were beautiful and big but filled with the largest grasshoppers I have ever seen in my life then and to now. And all those bugs did was spit on me every single time I went by those trees, so for me they bring up too many bad memories. LOL

haha meadowyck!

OK Mipii, since this is 'your' thread, hijacking ensues…

"When I think of the battle of Antietam, it seems so strange. Who permits it? To see or feel that a power is in existence that can and will hurl masses of men against each other in deadly conflict- slaying each other by the thousands… is almost impossible, but it is so- and why, we cannot know"
Dr Williams Childs

This text is posted on the wall of the visitor's center. I find it very moving. And I find it about impossible to 'find' online, so I have to go back to my picture and copy it out.

I'm still doing research on the Battle at Antietam and that Sycamore tree. Intriguing stuff.

Grayce, I agree with big old gnarly trees full of character, all my life I've been fascinated by them.

Sorry you had a bad Magnolia experience Jan, I can certainly see how giant spitting grasshoppers would be yucky to a little girl. If only someone had armed you with a peashooter...things would have been different. I was lucky, I had me some older brothers.

Now a few of my favorite gnarly trees are Harry Walker and corkscrew willows. The willows up north never lived long due to late spring snows, but oh such a beautiful trees. I remember the first encounter with Harry Walker and I couldn't figure out what happened to the tree, but found it so beautiful.

Those are specimen trees in my book.

Hello All,

My dear husband took a photo of his best friend standing with our American Holly. I made a new thread so as not to interfere with my drooling over doggone Catalpas...LOL!

Believe me, it you lived in Arizona for 20 years like I did, where you need to like Sycamores (spot them, spot the underground river), or pine trees, you get a hunger for the green stuff of your childhood. Even if they DO have a weird scent, like those boxwoods...

But, I DID appreciate those adult Saguaros, and they made THE FUNNIEST Christmas trees, what with those sunglasses and western hats perched on top!

Jan I like the contorted and curly stuff too!

sallyg, the quote is indeed moving. I must disagree with the thought that any Power "can and will hurl masses" as I believe that this seems more like the ancient Greek Gods, you know, how they hurled lightning bolts and the like...and an action, rather than an allowance.

Just like a mother allows her child to make decisions, in order to become mature and wise, so the Power allows Mankind to be Mankind. It is a kind and wise mother who steps back, so her child learns the tools needed to become a fully realized human being.

I believe that Mankind does well enough on its own, being destructive, not learning, and repeating History, that any Power does not have to add to the mayhem. But surely the Power listens when prayers are said, this I know.

The original quote Sally wrote was intriguing, as well your thoughts about it Grayce. I agree with Pseudo that was very well stated. Your mother analogy described 'free will' to my mind and the 'power' I believe the author was referring to must have been 'evil' (I don't agree with that point). When we are free to act, are we not also facilitating experience, therefore learning? Is that a key? Are we destined to learn through experience not history?

Some would say experience is history...and vice versa.

Oh You All! What a WISE group we have here! Milpil, your thought about "facilitating experience," well now, you have really hit it on the head. I think of the "Control Freaks" that I walk with on this Earth, and NOW have a different way of looking at them.
Isn't this "facilitating" what we do, as gardeners? Even if it is just reaching out for some tree that we'll most likely never acquire (unless it drops out of the sky from a bird like my holly LOL), we set up the best conditions we can, and "let 'er rip!"
This is the absolute joy of gardening. No matter that we'll never get that tree that is not in our future, we DO acquire and nurture what we can, and with the great help of God, each day is a wonder of our combined efforts! A true miracle.
I have a lifelong trait of being able to admire things, without needing to own them. That is why this discussion, about "If I Only Had the Room," is so enjoyable. Thank you, every green thumb, who is contributing. Thank you, Milpil.

I was struck by the use of the word strange, first. Usually you use, sad, tragic, etc, to describe war but strange? It is strange; unrecognizable, not of one's normal existence.
"…a power can and will" i.e. that there exists a power (government or ruling body) that can do this- much less thousands of them over the millennia…how does it ever happen that normal people get together and decide they must kill each other en masse? Little decisions pile in each other until it seems there is no other way…so it seems to happen time after time after time……

Well, I just think he said it well. No political statement here. War is part of human nature. Nature itself is very brutal. Witness wolves ripping apart a live deer. But how else do wolves feed babies?

ENough of that. It's a beautiful sunny but cold day in MD today.

No shortage of preponderance material to be ponderously pondered in these subjects...lol!
One thing I know for sure, we (homo sapiens) are not as smart as we fancy ourselves to be. One great group of people here though!