Practical Matters for Physically Challenged Gardeners #17

Welcome to Practical Matters for Physically Challenged Gardeners #17. We came from here.http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1291474/
WEBSITES: Please let us know about any sites you have found especially helpful or if you found links invalid.
Thrive
http://www.carryongardening.org.uk/
-This site addresses gardening with various types of challenges. This website is based in the U.K... Some gardening vocabulary might be unfamiliar to U.S. gardeners. This is not a major issue, however. Highly recommended
-AgrAbility
http://fyi.uwex.edu/agrability/about/
AgrAbility is a program for disabled farmers and ranchers. The focus is on agriculture rather than horticulture. The link is to AgrAbility “About Us” page. If you need info such as how to get from a wheelchair into a pick-up truck, this is the place to go.

-Gardening from a wheelchair
http://www.mda.org/publications/quest/q31garden.html

BOOKS—All, except one. of these books are available in audio format from the National Library Service for the Blind and Physically Handicapped. The exception is “Garden Unseen” which is only available in Braille at the time of this post. This list was compiled by a visually impaired person. There may be print books available that are not on the list. Please correct the oversight, if you know of any. The books in this list are, of course, also available in print and may be at your local library.
-Garden Unseen by L. Stevens
-Accessible Gardening for People with Physical Disabilities by Janeen R. Adil (We especially liked the list of recommended vegetables for containers and raised beds found in this book.)
-The Enabling Garden: A Guide to Lifelong Gardening by Gene Rothert--Written by a horticultural therapist employed at the Chicago Botanic Garden. It should be kept in mind that this book was written 17 years ago. Some of the information on raised bed building materials is outdated, but it is still worth reading since the author gardens from a wheelchair. He possesses both academic and first-hand knowledge.
-Gardening Through Your Golden Years by James W. Wilson
-Accessible Gardening: Tips & Techniques for Seniors by Joann Woy
Very comprehensive. No matter what problems advancing age is throwing at you to spoil your gardening fun, you should find a way to keep gardening in this book. Mobility limitations, visual impairment and more subtle issues such as balance are all addressed. Will possibly be updated later this year. .
--The Able Gardener: Overcoming Barriers of Age and Physical Limitations by Kathleen Yeoman
A good book for those new to gardening and those who garden on the west coast. Some information may be outdated, but much garden knowledge stands the test of time well.
Jim Wilson’s Container Gardening
This thread is about ways to keep on gardening and enjoying the outdoors despite any physical limitations.
The fall planting season has arrived and that seems like a good time to renew the Practical Matters thread.
A motorized scooter is definitely in Jim's future even though the doctor is still pushing keeping things manual. His arms and my legs are aching from getting him up and down paths. The paving on the main paths of the botanical garden are fine even for his everyday manual w/c, the elevation changes are another matter. The undulating landscape makes for an interesting garden space, but it is exhausting. Ideally, he needs 3 mobility devices. His everyday manual chair, an all-terrain w/c and a scooter for times when he wants to go out without sweat and strain. You gave us a good idea, Carrie. With Jim's fix-it-man leanings, we could buy a used scooter until Jim gets a better idea of what is out there and what features he wants.
Thanks, Turtle. He will want carrying space for tools, planting pots, etc.
I'm glad this one is out of our price range. lol. Jim would be having way too much fun with it.
http://www.actiontrackchair.com/
We've planted some cherry eleagnus and black mulberry seeds after putting the seeds through a cold treatment. Fingers crossed.
Photos: Visit to DBG

YAY, a fresh thread! Thanks, guys!

I think it's always better to know what you're getting into before you take the plunge. Same goes for having kids, having pets, owning anything serious, yeah. I have two WC in the garage maybe you could take off my hands ^_^

Each time I get a new WC, I am quoted figures from a few thousand to just under $30,000. I've had three (no, four,) power WC's in my life, not counting scooters, and only this most recent one do I really LOVE. It is comfortable for as long as I want to sit in it. Wasn't true with any of the others.

Woah! Until I saw THAT chair, holy cow!

Turtle, are you from Boston?

Hiya ~

I was there for the middle 20 years of my life. From Tucson to Boston to - ahh, middle ground - Western Oregon. Never lived here before but I think I might be home. There's green all year round!

T.

^_^ I lived in Brookline from age 6 mos. to approximately 25 years, then moved to JP. Moved to Milton in 1994 when my second daughter was born. Moved to TX last spring but I think we are moving back to Milton next spring. (We kept our house there.) I am definitely NOT home!

Turtle, almost all the gardeners I know think Washington State or Oregon would be the most idealic place to garden in the continental U.S. As for me, it would depend on whether or not fire ants have made it to the Pacific NW. lol. I would love to garden somewhere the there are no biting ants. No poison ivy, or burn hazel, or potato briar Smilax bona-nox), , or blackberry brambles, or wild cane (Arundo donax), or mosquitoes would be nice also. Anyone know of such a place? ;-)

Carrie, do you have your old wheelchairs there in TX or in Milton? We still need to make a trip out to TX to see my sisters there. My eldest sister teases me that if she stays alive long enough for me to come see her, she might end up immortal. We've been promising her we would come for 3 years running, but some crisis has always come up. This year it was my eldest daughter falling off the wagon. It took 6 months to restore her health and boost her back on to said wagon. The trip has been bumped forward to January.
We pulled out most of the tomato and pepper plants to make room for fall plantings. So far, all I've gotten into the ground are carrots and fragrant sweet peas ('Cupani'). Planning to get Brussels sprouts and snapdragons in the ground tomorrow.
It's fun and funky scarecrow building time again. I'm replacing the huge old male muscadine grape vine known as 'Old Bauukus' with a fruiting female vine and plan to create this year's scarecrow from Old Baukus's remains. I remember seeing beehives made from woven vines in fanciful shapes including some shaped like people. I always found those a little creepy. The challenge will be to make it sturdy enough to last through Halloween. My wreath and basket weaving skills are basic. Mk*

Kay, both wheelchairs (Jazzy and Quantum) which both need batteries are in Texas! You are welcome to them if you can get here. First come first serve. We have no plans for January.

Hi Kay,
What model are your chairs? I looked up Jazzy and see a large number of different models.
I might be interested in having You ship them to me, I will handle the packaging and shipping.
I have a cousin that is virtually a prisoner in her own home because she can't get out. She is a big woman, over 300 lbs, so it would need to be a heavy duty chair.
My Wish for You,,, A Fantastic Day, Paul.

It's me who has the chairs, Paul. I am not sure a 300 pound woman would be served well by either of these chairs. The expense of buying a battery, packing and shipping the chair....surely you can find something on craigslist.org. Or go to a physical therapist and get her measured and fit for one. It's important that it be a good fit. How will she get in and out? Does she have health insurance? Most plans will cover that type of expense, under Durable Medical Equipment.

I'm only 5'6" and maybe half her weight. The Jazzy was for someone's father; we bought it used. The Quantum was fit to me sort of; I have a new WC now which was totally customized for me! It is seriously the most comfortable WC I have ever owned. The fact that it is completely comfortable probably means it would be UN-comfortable for anyone else who tried to use it. The Quantum could have been that comfortable, but they didn't spend the time with me to find out what I needed.

What make is you chair Carrie?

The newest one is Permobil. I love it.

Yes, even Jim's basic Invacare manual had to be specially ordered by the VA when he weighed over 300 lbs. and he modified it further himself to make it comfortable for his height. (The back was too low for someone well over 6'.
I'll be on the lookout for something appropriate for your cousin, Paul. I ran into an old schoolmate on Facebook. She lives in San Francisco now and refurbishes old wheelchairs and scooters. She was a motorcycle mama when we were young so I imagine she is good at it. Also, my sisters are all economy sized woman and over 65. One of the main reasons I chose to make earthen and concrete ramps was that I knew I would need to accommodate heavier mobility devices. Doorways had to be widened as well. If you can get her a chair. there are some civic organizations that will help with the home modifications.
We will drop by to say "Hi" when we make it out that way w/c or not, Carrie. My eldest sister lives on the lake near Bowie, a little north of where you are. Mk*

Just let me know when you plan to come, and I will make sure we're "home."

Paul, you should definitely check MS society, SCI society, CP association, MD club, MofDimes, etc. All those places should have free exchanges where you leave your unneeded equipment and pick up what you need. (MS is the only one that's really a society, lol.) Oh, and Easter Seals.

Kay, does your house have wide doorways, etc? Being tall or large makes EVERYTHING more difficult. Part of why I am trying to lose weight--I can't ask DH to keep dragging me around.

(Jim) Only the laundry room doorway is not modified. I built a sliding door for the bedroom it is wide enough that i can spin around in it. The rest are widened enough for the chair and hands to go through without hitting my knuckles.
I took the camera out in search of anything that was not yellow or Purple. Only had marginal success but I love the Bluemist flower next to the Beautyberry nice combination.
Photo 1 OxBlood lily
Photo 2 Morning glory
Photo 3 Bluemist and Beautyberry

That's AMAZING, Jim! We rented our house here b/c I could get into the bathroom. I cannot access any closets, the shower, the toilet, etc. etc. etc.

I really like the blue morning glory.

(Mk*) The laundry was once Jim's household task. I've noticed he seems in no hurry to make the laundry room accessible. ;-)
Last week was A busy week of transplanting perennials and planting cool season veggies. I asked Jim to pick up some cottonseed meal from the local nursery. I should know by now not to let that man go to the nursery by himself. He came back with yet another blueberry plant. I've known many gardeners obsessed with roses or hostas. I've even met plant collectors dedicated to gingers or salvias. Jim is the first gardener I've known with a ravviteye blueberry obsession. . It seems to be as much about the fall leaf color as the fruit. The newest one is a monster that will allegedly mature to 12' by 12'.
Jim also bought two new kinds of Brussels sprouts. (Another obsession. His absolute favorite vegetable.) They will grow here in the fall and winter, but their a bit of a challenge. I remind him, " This ain't the Pacific fog belt " which I believe is where most sprouts in the grocery stores come from. But, he is determined to find a variety that will grow well here. I will spend a good deal of this week hunting for places to plant MORE Brussels sprouts. Ah-h-h, the things I do for love. At least everyone in the house will eat them. Brussels are one of those vegetables people either love or despise.

I love Brussels sprouts, cabbage, cole slaw, etc. Unfortunately not many people I know feel the same way. Why are Brussels sprouts called Brussels sprouts?

(Mk*) I have a lazy tongue that avoids the double "s" and that often makes me misspell Brussels sprouts. Nadine has corrected me several times saying "Brussels, not Brussels. You know, like the place in Belgium." I assume they came to this country from that part of the world. I wonder what they call them WITHIN Belgium? Of course, I'm an odd duck. I also wonder what they call Canadian bacon in Canada.
We've all been a little sick this week. I think it is just allergies. It is ragweed season here and the fields are covered in fall wild flowers. I did manage to pull a stand of Solidago Canadensis this week before it went to seed. It remains in the open field uphill from us so I imagine I will be pulling it up for as long as I garden this land. Goldenrods can be a pretty pain, but the bees and good, pollinating beetles appreciate them. I just read in Horticulture Magazine about the leather wing beetles, who are big fans of goldenrod and aster, Prey on many common garden pest. I definitely want to keep goldenrods and the native asters. Jim complains about getting burned out on yellow this time of year so I guess the blue, purple and white non-native asters will be staying since our native aster is a yellow. He did identify and journal five of the yellow flowering plants in bloom for me. Secretly, I think he was hoping some of them would be aggressive non-natives so he could replace them with something blue. No luck on anything except the Canada goldenrod. I had some plant ID success also. The red mystery rose is a 'Dr. Huey'. Doc is such an easy, breezy rose and even flowers in shade so it will stay. I didn't expect it to be a named cultivar. I had been looking in all the wrong places.
Nadi's special aquarium tadpoles are finally beginning to get legs. I'm happy about that because I was afraid she would be asking to keep them inside. (The nights are getting cool.) No ID on them yet, but my money is on chorus frogs. I kept telling her not to baby them so much because a tadpole in idealic conditions is in no hurry to become a frog or toad. They have some control over that. That's what I've always been told anyway. Nadi is temperamentally incapable of intentionally making a fellow creature's life hard though. It is a good thing she has decided never to have children. Her kids would be spoiled brats for sure.
Picture 1 Soft golden aster
Picture 2 goodbye Coleus

Yes, Jim, I get burned out on yellow VERY easily. In the sping, forsythia and daffodils and in the summer, coreopsis and dandelions and Stella D'Oro daylilies and in the fall, Black-Eyed Susan and some helenium. I'm sure there are lots more. Goldenrod and ragweed of course.

I don't think Brussels sprouts became popular until maybe the mid-20th C. They are botanically equal to cabbage, I mean they have the exact same name. I guess they are a cultivar of cabbage. Look for an article on the topic in November or even October.

I've heard - and it has proved true for me - that goldenrod is not much of an allergen, but that it signals ragweed season. And of course even earthworms sneeze at ragweed.

Hahaha "even earthworms sneeze at ragweed."

%~D

(Mk*)Ah-h-h, now my poor brain is trying to dredge up an image for an earthworm with a headcold. lol.
Nadi found a tiny bluestripe garter snake and told Jim it added a nice touch of blue to the garden. She's making the argument that if colorful butterflies and hummingbirds are welcome additions to a garden why should a beautifully patterned, harmless snake not be a welcome visitor? I'm content to let Jim field this one. lol
Goldenrods make a nice honey. I'm trying to free the property of S. canadensis, but actually have plans to add some other types. If I do it right, I should be able to keep the bees in goldenrods from August through November. Hyssops might be something both Jim and the bees can agree on. The spider lilies (Lycdoris radiata) and oxblood lilies that were planted in semi-shade or and cooler micro-climates are only now blooming. Jim won't have to roam to far today to find relief from yellow flower fever, but the bees can't see much into the red range.
We are roasting and freezing more jalapenos today. Tara seriously over-estimated how many hot peper plants we needed. I was indoctrinated by parents who survived the Great Depression. Letting food go to waste goes against all my early training. Nadi made a jalapeno and cheese quick bread a few days ago that was excellent and not too hot. I wouldn't mind having more of it through the winter. So, it is possible we will use them up. Live and learn. Fewer jalapenos, and sweeter banana peppers next year.
(Nadi)
Jalapeno Cheddar Quick-Bread
2 cups flour
2 tsp sugar
1 tbsp baking powder
1 tsp black pepper
1 tsp salt
1 cup shredded cheddar cheese
1 cup milk
1/3 cup oil
1 egg
3 jalapeno peppers (seeded and diced)
2 small celery stalks diced or one diced bell pepper
Preheat oven to 375 and grease a 8x4 baking pan. In a large bowl, combine the flour, sugar, baking powder, pepper, salt and cheese. In a separate bowl combine milk, oil and egg. Combine the two mixtures then add the jalapenos and celery (or bell pepper). When it’s all mixed together, transfer to the baking dish and bake for 45-55 minutes. Cool completely before slicing.

We are still editing the gardens deciding what goes, what stays and what needs to be in a different place. The pinecone ginger (a.k.a. shampoo ginger) I thought I had lost came back stronger than ever in August. I have no idea why it didn't put in an appearance last year or earlier this year. I'm happy to see it return because it has such a great scent and is a good back-of-the-border structure plant. Jim wants one in a 5-gal. pot to make it easier to appreciate the "pinecones" up close visually. I've taken small divisions from the brugmonsias I put in the ginger's place when I thought the gingers were gone. That will give me a chance to see how hardy the brugs are without losing them. Who knows. They might live companionably among the gingers and be just as hardy. (Well, a gardener can dream, right?) . Hoping the pinecone ginger blooms before it gets to cold. It had a late start.
I've been working on a special pot near the deck for a Cestrum nocturnum received in a trade. . The night-blooming jasmine will spend the winter in a container inside, however, in case what South Dakota, Wyoming, Colorado, Nebraska and Iowa are experiencing is an indication of the winter to come. 4' of snow at the beginning of October and mile wide tornadoes sounds like something out of the book I just finished reading. (The Weather of the Future: Heatwaves, Extreme Storms, and Other Scenes from a Climate-Changed Planet by Heidi Cullens)
Black mulberries arrived at Amargia by a very roundabout route, but they are liking things here so far. There was virtually 100% germination of the mulberry seeds we received from a Dger in Norway. We will have some very happy birds when they start producing.
The tadpoles are watching television. (sigh) Yep, Nadi brought them inside. Worse yet, two of them have been given names. It isn't that cold at night. Her excuse for bringing them inside was possible water contamination or accidental spills. Jim was painting and moving things around on the front porch where the tadpoles lived. (He finally decided the back porch would be a better place for the gas generator. It only took me two years to convince him of that. lol.) Now, I have more curb appeal, but share the den with amphibians. Man, I hope they aren't toads. Frogs will go to live by the creek, but there will be more toad houses in my flower beds if that is what they turn out to be. Mk*

Don't they need to be exposed gradually to outdoor climates? They need to "harden off" I think, since they adjust their physiology to changes in temperature. Do they hibernate (or sleep in the mud at the bottom all winter) where you live?

Also, does Nadine or Kay actually know what plants the Pilgrims ate? I want to write about what plants they brought, and I thought you might have a source I don't have.

Carrie, I can send you a list of plants eaten by the Cherokee and Creek. If they grow in Massachusetts, you can assume they were on the menu. The Cherokee's territory encompassed cold mountain regions and Cherokee still speak of "our grandfathers, the Delaware." The division between tribes was never as rigid and neat as history books would have one believe. It's a list of what you might think of as weeds though. The potato briar I'm always complaining about was an edible for the people. The stem tips are eaten like asparagus and the roots are pounded into flour. You may know it as Smilax or green briar. What grows here has ivy-shaped leaves in varying shades of green and what grows farther north has simple leaves without the variegation, but it tastes the same.
Recipes for First Nation foods are few and far between, simply because whatever happened to be available to eat was used. You can find a few recipes at the website for Cherokees of California (http://www.powersource.com/cocinc/ ) and allot more Native tech (http://nativetech.org/recipes/ ) there is a traditional recipes segment at the latter site. Other recipes include modern ingredients or even clever ways of using commodity food. Nadi has collected recipes at the November dances, but I think all are tied tightly to this area. I doubt the Pilgrims were fed Opossum or Alligator tail. Squirrel and cattails (Typha) might have been on the menu. I know there are squirrels in MA, do cattails grow there? Smilax? Wild rice? Sorry, I can’t see plant distribution maps.
Early accounts of Europeans speak in awe of the different kinds of foods they were given and the size of Native Americans who often towered over the poorly nourished Europeans. It's an excellent article idea, if you can find the sources. Let me know if I can help. November is Native American Heritage month.
Toads occasionally overwinter as tadpoles in our region if they are born late in the year. Nadi believes her little darlings are one of our rarer toad varieties. She chose these six tadpoles because they looked different from the hundreds in the puddle. We have over 30 different kinds of frogs and toads in the area and they are very hard to tell apart as tadpoles. Toads do burrow here. I know because I've accidently dug them up. I'm not sure how frogs survive the winter because they hang out closer to the creek or pond, but burrowing would be my guess if things got really cold. Our ground never freezes and daytime temps in winter are usually mild which may explain why we have so many types of toads and frogs. I hope the winter survival instincts are deeply ingrained otherwise I imagine Bubbles outside the door waiting to slip in to get warm and watch his favorite TV shows. Mk*

Thank you, Kay! I was hoping more to write about what seeds and gardening things the Pilgrims/Puritans/settlers felt they required for a new world/settlement. Like if we went off to colonize another planet, what plants would we bring with us?

We definitely have cattails and squirrels in Mass. as well as nettles. But I know that, for instance, Queen Anne's Lace is not native to the Western hemisphere. How did it get here? When? Whose idea was it? I only just discovered that Dandelions ARE native to all temperate regions, but I think chicory is just as introduced as Kudzu.

I guess I have two questions. 1. which plants are introduced and 2.who introduced them? Some things like Potato Tomato and Pineapple there are records of but I'm having a hard time finding out about QAL and Chicory.

GREAT website, Kay, although lemons, pepper and rice are not native. Raccoons and dandelions certainly are. No wonder they were so thin.

This message was edited Nov 7, 2013 6:04 PM

Sorry, November is Native American Heritage month and we are gearing up for the festivities. I'm focused on pre-Columbian food lately. I didn't read carefully enough.
That is a great premise for an article. I have never read anything around Thanksgiving with that approach . It is fun to puzzle over. Sort of like that thought game where a player has to choose a limited number of items to survive a year on a deserted island.
I bet the Pilgrims came with apple seeds or seedlings. We say "as American as apple pie, but apples arrived very early with Europeans. I learned that recently while reading accounts of early contact from the Native perspective. Apples were a sought after trade item. They are one thing that came from Europe American Indians welcomed with open arms.
When I try to create a authentic pre-Columbian meal at Thanksgiving the most frustrating thing to me is not being able to fall back on familiar herbs such as parsley, sage, rosemary, thyme, mustard, horseradish or lovage. )(lol. Shades of Scarborough Fair.) Those are herbs anyone from England would have considered essential for cooking and for their medicinal value. I would find it hard to believe that the women on the Mayflower would have left England without those. With herbs, the simplest food can be made special and they would have known that. This country provided a bounty of meat, vegetables and fruit, but is somewhat lacking in the herb department or, at least, the knowledge of native herbs has been lost. I seasoned the venison with juniper berries last year and used lots of peppers. I'm hoping to do better this Thanksgiving. Mk*

I thought there were apples already here? Maybe not. Plimouth.org is a good site for what they THINK they were eating in 1625 or so. But I thought there would be a cargo list of all the junk on the Mayflower.

There was salt, dandelion, nettles, I give up. There are a lot of things that add "bitter" to the flavor or "hot" to the favor. You think it's only Apiaceae herbs that taste "savory?" SAGE was in the North American southwest, wasn't it? And if it was anywhere in the Americas, it was traded everywhere.

I'm on the schedule to write such an article for November. I better get cracking. Have you read 1491 and 1492?

Were you asking about cattails a post or two ago?

http://blogs.plimoth.org/wetu/uncategorized/the-women-are-working-on-cattail-mats-edges/

"Our bay is full of lobsters all the summer and affordeth variety of other fish; in September we can take a hogshead of eels in a night with small labor, and can dig them out of their beds all the winter. We have mussels... at our doors. Oysters we have none near, but we can have them brought by the Indians when we will; all the spring-time the earth sendeth forth naturally very good sallet herbs. Here are grapes, white and read, and very sweet and strong also. Strawberries, gooseberries, raspas, etc. Plums of three sorts, with black and read, being almost as good as a damson; abundance of roses, white, read, and damask; single, but very sweet indeed... These things I thought good to let you understand, being the truth of things as near as I could experimentally take knowledge of, and that you might on our behalf give God t hanks who hath dealt so favorably with us."

Edward Winslow

"For three days the Pilgrims and their Indian guests gorged themselves on venison, roast duck, goose and turkey, clams and other shell-fish, succulent eels, corn bread, hasty pudding, leeks and water-cress and other "sallet herbes," with wild plums and dried berries as dessert, all washed down with wine made of the wild grape. The affair was more like an out-door barbeque for the entire population, than a family reunion dinner. This feasting involved the preparation of unusually large quantities of food, some of it unfamiliar. " from
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mosmd/#part5

How cool! I was aware of cattails being used as food, but I had not heard of other uses. Most of my knowledge about what will grow in MA comes from reading Thoreau.

I will be so-o-o glad when Nadi's new computer arrives. She's been using mine for work and she's a bit of a workaholic. Lately, I'm on very early in the morning before my brain is fully awake or late at night when my mental functioning is beginning to lag.
Salvia officinalis (broadleaf culinary sage) is a European introduction, but you are probably right and there is a native salvia that will do as well. I want to add more salvias to the landscape anyway. Cedar sage is of particular interest. It will grow under cedars, as its name implies, where few plants will.
I guess in a way we can claim Malus domestica since most apples are grafted on crabapple rootstock. Crabapples were already here.

I've read 1491. I imagine 1493 would be as sad as Stolen Continent which I recently read. I loved the way the author of Stolen Continent so powerfully and succinctly phrased it when writing about the myth of America as a virgin wilderness. He wrote ""America wasn't a virgin when the pilgrims arrived. She was a widow." The accounts of Desoto's secretary leave no doubt that European diseases had already taken a huge tow by the time Desoto went on his greedy rampage through this area in the late 1530's. (Sorry, I can't bring myself to call what Desoto did "exploration" as the history books of my childhood did.) The documents I've read support the higher population figures for pre-Columbian America given in the book 1491. I believe European diseases were just that devastating from the very first contact. Besides, I don't know of any tribe of First Peoples that would bother with the hard work of farming if it were possible to support a population by hunting and gathering and there is little doubt that serious agriculture was going on in pre-Columbian America. There are records of extensive farming in both the archeological and early written records meaning there was a large population to feed.

Wasn't it the same with the Pilgrims? Didn't they find empty cabins and cared for, but unplanted gardens when they arrived. Or, am I confusing the settlement at Plymouth with something I read about the New Amsterdam settlement?

Nadi is back from grocery shopping and impatient to get to work. She's bribeing me to get off the computer with breakfast and pumpkin pie spice coffee. lol. It's cool enough this morning that the warm spices are very appealing. Mk*

From what I've read, the "Pilgrims" (today's job was to find out who first labelled them that) raided some burial mounds for corn for seed and for food. They also scored a cooking pot and some other useful stuff they forgot to pack.

It seems I am totally wrong--it's not that I can't find info about what seeds they brought; it's that they didn't bring any seeds. They brought some barley seed and peas which they didn't even harvest because the crop was so poor.

They did plant apples in maybe 1622 or so. People lived on the Mayflower 1620-21 and then in March in went back for more people and supplies.

How dumb to 1.leave in the fall and 2.not bring farming stuff. My info says they had to get out of Dodge fast.

Took forever to scroll down just to say hi. I have Beautyberry also. It sure is prolific

May you all have a blessed day
Sheri

Hi Sherie! Sorry I've been using so much space.

Hello, Sheri. Welcome back. Sorry, I am guilty too. First encounters between the Old and New Worlds and all that resulted from that clash and melding is endlessly fascinating to me. I can prattle on and on about it. Even if a person doesn't have a drop of Amer-Indian blood, the influence of First Peoples, especially the Iroquois Confederacy, on our system of government means all Americans have a heritage that stretches into pre-Columbian times. Thanksgiving and the November Heritage festivities celebrate the times, however brief, that the Old and New World came/come together and it was/is good.
Beautyberries are something! It isn't just the color at a time when things are beginning to dull down I like. It is the structure. The way the berry clusters form rings around the stem makes them look like a shrub Dr. Seuss thought of on one of his more creative days. I'm hoping to get the white berry variety soon and that it has the same form as the purple. I've yet to see a white one in its prime.
Jim found pansies in colors he thought would play well with the marigolds. Mk*

Me too, not so much because of the Indian part (where I come from, Lord Jeffrey Amherst was busy giving smallpox-infested blankets to the freezing Indians), but because the "traditional Thanksgiving" I grew up with had homemade (not canned) cranberry sauce, free-range turkey and peel-on potatoes, plus sweet potato pie not pumpkin, in an effort to be closer to the original style first Thanksgiving. Finding out that Pilgrims didn't have potatoes (white or sweet) OR cranberry sauce (not much good without sugar) got me started on the whole Columbian Exchange thing.

In Massachusetts, we had lots of purple-and-yellow pansies, or maybe I am thinking of Johnny-Jump-Ups, but either way purple and yellow, Yes, look adorable with marigolds.

mmmmm... love sweet potato pie. Never even heard of it till moving to NC. Guess cause my mom was a can or frozen stuff cooker - she worked outside the home.
I love to imagine how fun..er interesting it must be to have a big family gathering to celebrate Thanksgiving.
Probably blessing and a curse. ;-)

~~~wing waves,
BirdieBlue