Red delicious apple tree and worms

My question is first we have 2 apple trees one is a Red delicious and the second is a yellowish green apple I'm guessing maybe a yellow delicous it was labeled a Macintsh but for sure it isn't and was miss marked.
But this year is the first year we have had so many apples that the branches of both trees are boughed over so much that on one of them a branch broke. We are assuming it was our abundance of water in the spring.
If anyone know why it happened I'd love to know by the way we live in Michigan and these trees were full of blossoms in the spring too.
My next question and I'm not complaining but in years before most every apples were wormy but why is it this year the apples are mostly all perfect. Is it because there are so many apples that that is why we have gotten so many perfect apples on it. By the way we haven't sprayed this tree in years because my husband never could get it sprayed at the perfect time so we just gave up.
I would love to know why we had such a perfect crop of apples this year so I can aim for doing that next year.
Thanks
Jan

Not sure why there was a lack of bugs (maybe all the rain?) but as to the overlaoded branches, did you thin the apples at all? Thinning promotes larger apples of better quality.

No we didn't do that and I was thinking about that but we get so many that fall off anyway when they are still little apples that I really didn't want to. And actually the apples are very good sized and good shape as they are. But I do know what you mean and probably should have done that.
Some that I've talked to have said that maybe we don't have the worms because we had little to no apples last year because of a late frost we had when all the trees were in bloom and it frosted all the blossoms so most of Michigan had little to no apples last year. And some have said maybe it is because we had no apples last year.
I don't know I'm not an expert but sure are enjoying the abundance of apples and will be sharing with friends and relatives if they stay as nice as they are now when they are ready for harvest.
Which since we have never harvested our apples because they have never been good I don't know when they are actually ready to pick.
Some people think that the reason for the abundance of blooms is because of all the rain we got this spring I don't know about that either just enjoy and wonder why not the worms like before.

Yes, it is possible that the weather last year wiped out the bugs and they haven't had a chance to build up their number again - but they probably will come back eventually. Sorry.

Heavy crop usually has to do with good pollination - that is weather and luck, too. When you have a lot of little apples drop off, that is called "June Drop". You wait for that, then if there is still too many apples, you thin them some more. I know it is hard to pick off perfectly good apples - but you really do not want to break branches. That does a serious injury to the tree that lets in other diseases.

Also sometimes trees get in a pattern of alternating years - too few then too many. Another reason it may have had too many this year - if it bears poorly next year, that may be why.

Thining apples helps to reduce alternate bearing. With the late frosts of 2012 there were very few apples in your area last year which in turn has reduced insect numbers. Part of that was that many insects were kileld by the repetitive late frosts and with fewer apples there was less food for them to consume. Wet weather usually promotes insects, except for aphids and mites. But it has been very wet! I'm surprised your Red Delicious doesnt have much scab or summer diseases like fly speck or sooty blotch.

You can still thin the apples as well as tie up or support the branches. You do not want any branches breaking.

Enjoy all those apples!!!

They say biting into an apple and finding a worm is bad....but I'd say biting into an apple and only finding half a worm is worse!

I grew up with home grown apples, so I also grew up learning how to eat around the worms. So as long as half the apple is still good, worms don't bother me.
But I have found out that no-one else feels that way - I make sure the family doesn't see me cutting up apples for pie, etc.

I do the same with all of my fruits and vegetables...there is usually a half that is still good! I dont use any vigorous spray programs....on thing I do spray for is fungicide for scab. Copper is pretty good and I use some neem oil for the insects and that usually does the trick for some fairly clean apples....and controlling the pests organically. Now I do use regular fertilizer so not truly organic.

The problem with spraying insecticides is that we know that there are special times when they need to be sprayed and it is hard to get them sprayed just at the right time.
My father in law use know exactly when they were supposed to be sprayed but he is gone now and I probably should find a web site that would tell me exactly when do spray what so that when we have the exact opportune chance with the right weather we could try to get some spray on them.
I have heard of the neem spray but not sure when to spray and what it is good for.
My husband said that they have to be sprayed at certain times he thinks as not to affect the bees so would that be before the blooms or can it be after the blooms. If it is before the blooms that is our big problem when it comes to being able to get it done according to the weather.
And what is Copper for never ever heard of that is it a spray too?
I'm not sure if our apples have ever had scab either not sure what it looks like.

If your Worms are coddling moths, you would spray the little apples after blossom drop. Timing is critical - you have to get them after the eggs are laid but before the worms tunnel in. This is another reason to thin - the moths like to lay eggs where two fruits touch.

For apples here is what I do. All sprays are mixed up in a 1.5 gallon hand sprayer I bought at a Lowes:

I prune my apples in January or February. Then in early spring (March) while still dormant I apply an oil: http://www.lowes.com/pd_94034-446-0168160_0__?productId=3047703&Ntt=pesticides
This kills any eggs that have overwintered on the tree as well as helps to control San Jose Scale as well as mites.

In MI and parts of the east, on most varieties you can get apple scab. This is a fungal disease that causes black round lessions to form on leaves and fruit. Attached is a picture of a golden delicious apple with scab on the fruit. Also seen are tiny little dots which is a summer disease called flyspeck. Red Delicious is also a sceceptible variety. The fact sheet tells you how to control scab as well as lists disease resistant cultivars. To control scab I usually apply copper early on at 1/2 green tip and then apply a fungicide(Captain) at 10-14 day intervals until after petal fall especiall if we have alot of wet weather. Copper after the pink flower stage can cause injury to the fruit. http://plantclinic.cornell.edu/factsheets/applescab2.pdf After this stage I do not apply any more fungicide and I have been fine in my area. Scab can be so bad that a tree can be defoliated and scab infected fruit falls to the ground before reaching maturity.

At petal fall I apply NEEM oil + pyrethrins. http://www.scotts.com/smg/goprod/green-light-fruit-tree-spray/prod10780016/
This targets plum curculios, and European apple sawfly. To get codding moth at the first generation you generlaly want to apply insecticide around the end of May to target their first generation. This is hard to figure when it exactly will be due to shifting weather paterns recently so I apply the NEEM + pyrethrins on a 7-10 interval for 3-4 applications after petal fall to insure I not only get the plum curculios, and European apple sawfly, but also the codding moth, and numerous other pests. The NEEM oil product also suppresses diseases and mites.

After this I do not apply the NEEM unless needed so I scout weekly to see what pests might be out there and some years do not make any additional sprays beyond late June.

Sounds like alot of spraying but it ensures good pest and disease free apples and does so almost organically(Captain not organic). If you dont get disease only use the insect program. If you dont get the insects just use the fungicide spray program. I am all about spraying as little as possible...but for my Gala's and Red Delicious I know I'm going to get scab in 3 out of 4 years and the only way to prevent is to spray on a program and start early at the 1/2 green tip stage.

Sound like a reasonable plan, and reasonable organic (pyrethrins kill bees and beneficials, too don't they?). I was going to try some new stuff specific for Codling moths, CYD-X (Codling moth granulosis virus) - I am not sure your other pests are problems here. I guess I have to talk the neighbors into letting me spray their crabapples and hawthorns, too, if I want to be sure and get all the codling moths.

I will have to see if we can follow your regime it sounds real complicated but sure would be nice to have nice apples off these trees every year. After all no one wants to take a nice sized red delicious apple in their lunch with worm holes in it.
Thanks for the information you have been very helpful.
Jan

After pink stage on the blooms until petal fall you do not want to spray any insecticides in order to not disrupt the bees or harm them. The virus can be effective but needs to be sprayed often to have good efficacy.

Mating disruption with the use of phermones is another option for coddling moth and oriental fruit moth. This consist of hanging a dispenser of phermone in each tree which confuses male and female codding moths from finding each other to mate. If they dont mate and there are no eggs fertilized and no worms. This is acheived without pesticide spraying and is organilcally approved. There is also mating disruption for oriental fruit moth.
http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/crops/facts/03-079.htm

drobarr we have a red delicious and a what we think may be a yellow delicious tree it was mislabled when we got it it said it was a mac. Anyway I was disappointed because I wanted a mac for backing but our neighbor has a tree and they are renting and don't have a clue what kind of apple tree it is. If I took one of those apples in to my extention office for our county at this point would they be able to tell me what kind of apple it is at least if it was a baking apple or not.
As good as the crops are this year I figure I sure would like to take advantage of it if that tree is a baking apple being our neighbors would give me all I wanted since they do nothing with them themselves.
Never before have I ever really bothered to notice that tree because in years past we haven't had good apples but since ours are so good this year I am figuring that theirs will be good too might as well take advantage of it since I like to make apple pies and I peel and cut the apples and put them in the freezer for making pies at a later date. Or my mother in law used to make the pies and either bake them and put them in the freezer or put them in the freezer unbaked.
My Dad loved apple pie so I perfected my apple pie making and now that he is gone besides my husband I have a brother who loves apple pie too so I do like to make them apple pies.
Last year I made none because the apple crop was so bad and I refused to pay the price you needed to if you wanted apples only for a few for eating in our lunches.
This will seem nice to actually have our own apples for eating this year and I really hope that our neighbors tree turns out to be a apple good for baking it would be nice.
I myself don't know how to tell what kind of apple is what only can pretty much tell if it is a red delicious that kind is pretty easy to id.
Sure would be nice to be able to just hang something up in your trees like Pheromones to keep the moths from mating it sure would make maintenance on your trees easier but in reading that article it says it is best if used in coordination with a spraying regime and in a large block area.
Jan

All this talk about apple pies is making me hungy!

You should be able to able to take an apple to an extension fruit specialist and they should be able identify it. Do you have a picture of it?

You might be able to identify the fruit with pictures online...this website has some pictures of common apple varieties and their uses...whether they be good for pies or not. There are actually quite a few varieties that are good for pies including Golden Delicious and Gala but not Red Delicious.
http://www.pickyourown.org/apples.htm

Pheremones do work best in blocks and yes growers still do have to spray, but not spray as much. Its a tool to help reduce codding moth. But keep in mind the insect pressure in an established apple orchard is much higher than in your back yard.

It is not unusual for labeling mistakes to be made. Even growers will often have a tree they get from the nursery that is mislabled. mac is a good all round apple but it is very susceptible to apple scab. There are a number of scab resistant apples and if I was going to plant a new tree I would plant one of those to minimize any spraying.

I never thought of a yellow delicious being good for baking guess I'll have to try but not even sure it is a yellow delicious just looks to me like it could be it is a yellowish apple and that was my first guess.
I will try to get a pic of it and my neighbors apple and post them what is the forum name do you know?
I know there are other apples good for baking but Macs are my favorite because they cook up and don't hold their shape. Yes that's what I said don't hold their shape I like them to be cooked up and not having to bite into a piece of pie and chew a piece of apple I know weird.
My mother in law always used Macs and I just liked the way her pies turned out and like you said they are a good all round apple. I had never realized until having a fresh Mac at my In laws house (they had a semi dwarf tree one year it had the largest apples on it that I had every seen especially for a Mac) that they are crisp and juicy when fresh not like the ones you get in the store that have been in cold storage and then put on the market for sale. Those apples are mushy and the skin is rubbery my description may be wrong but they just aren't the same as when they are fresh what a realization the first time I ate a fresh one I realized I really did like Macs.
If you want to make a good crust my mother in laws crust was an oil recipe that is better for you than shortening especially for cholesterol. It is....
2 c. flour
1 tsp. salt (sometimes I don't put salt sometimes just cut it down)
She also added a 1 tsp.of baking powder to flour mixture to make the crust puff up she said.
1/2 c. canola oil
Add 6 Tbl. water to the canola oil do not stir.
Add the liquid unstirred to the flour mixture and combine with hands to incorporate.
Divide into 2 balls (makes 1 double crust) roll each out between wax paper ( I use the wax paper from 2 boxes of cereal this wax paper is much better than the kind you buy in a roll at store won't mention name that kind falls apart not the kind cereal is packaged in doesn't).
Then make your apple pie the typical way your favorite ingredients I like to use tapioca in my apple pie along with the spices. As always my Dad always wanted me to sprinkle sugar on the top of the pie. This was my Dad's favorite so I had to perfect it especially the way he liked it.
This got long it puts you all in the mood to go make an apple pie when your apples are ready.
I can't wait.
Jan

you can post them here to try to identify.

I am having a vintage apple year. ...also peach, cherry, berries, English Walnut, and pecans. For apples I do spray a fungicide at blooming time. This is NOT an insecticide. Also after petal drop and for 6 weeks around here, it is usually necessary to spray unless you like knobby apples.

The Jonagolds are superb. Also the Jonathons are overloaded. Even the Red Delicious has many perfect fruit. Also a volunteer was Verty heavily loaded with large red fruit.

Apples vary with their resistance to scab. Mac's are notorious for heavy scab in wet springs and can be so bad as to drop all fruit and nearly defoliate a tree.

But there are many trees that dont get scab. Even Honeycrisp doesnt get much scab...but it is very susceptible to powdery mildew.

Most trees though will produce some fruit that is free of diesease and insects...but with just a few well timed sprays it is possible to get some exceptional fruit!

We ate some many apricots, peaches, nectarines, pears, and now apples that I'm sick of them! Its been a good year here for fruit production in PA!

John

I don't know if I every got a response from anyone when are the apples usually ready for picking since I have never bothered since they never were good apples before but now are I really want to harvest these apples but don't want to do it prematurely.
Mine are the Red Delicious and what I think may be Yellow Delicious.
I looked at my neighbors tree and hers are still green so I'm not sure what kind hers are but they have a different shape then mine like the shape of a Mac where mine are the shape of a delicious.
My neighbor said I could have some of hers because they look to me more like a baking apple.
I've heard the term winter apple and I forget what the other one was what is the difference?
I still need to take a pic of my apple and my neighbors and post on here I will.
A girl at work brought some in from her tree and they were green too and I bit into one and boy were they sour so not sure if they just weren't ready or what kind they were.
If I make a pie out of apples that aren't ready would that be a problem or make for a pie that doesn't have a good flavor.
Jan

There is alot of variability on when an apple is ready for harvest. In my zone apples like Honeycrisp and Gala start maturing in late August. Red Delicious are late September/early October. It is important to know what variety you have and when they mature in your area so you know the best time for harvesting them. Many of the baking apples tend to be tart and are late season apples.

Here are some pointers on how to know if your apples are ripe...

1. Inspect the color of the bottom of the apples. Yellow and red varieties will usually lose most of their green color on the bottom once ripe enough to pick.

2. Lift an apple toward the branch and twist it gently. A mature apple separates easily from the branch without the need to force the stem to break. This can vary with some varieties...but if you are seeing apples at this date falling to the ground it usually means they are ripe.

3. Slice the apple in half and inspect the seeds. The seeds turn dark brown or black at maturity.

4. Cut into one apple and check that the flesh just beneath the skin has lost its green color to verify maturity. If the flesh is still greenish and has a hard grainly or atringent taste/texture it isnt yet ripe.

Some apples need some cool weather to ripen up..even some frosts to develop sugars and sweetness. Winter apple simply means that it is picked very late in the season. http://www.harvesttotable.com/2006/12/winter_apple_varieties/

I agree that Red Delicious ripens in early October. At that time it may be a bit tough skinned, but is the right time for storage. I put mine in the crisper in the fridge and they can be superb in December and January.......crisp, juicy, and very sweet.

My Jonagolds are ripe in a few days...they are really great fresh eating.

Golden Delicious ripen in late September and early October....mostly early october.

So I probably have at least another month to go before my Red delicious and Yellow delicious will be ready. The other apples the ones my neighbor has which are shaped completely different and I think are a winter apple for baking maybe those could go longer you think.
These are the first pic is my Red delicious tree, 2nd pic what I think is the Yellow delicous, 3rd pic is my Red delicious apple, 4th pic is what I think is the Yellow delicious and they are still very green.
Notice how bent my trees are the red the bigger tree is quite bent over but the smaller one what I think is the Yellow delicious has a large branch up in the very top of it that completely broke.
We are waiting till we can harvest the apples to try to trim that branch off because trying to get to it would mean knocking a bunch of apples on the ground.
I have 2 more pics of my neighbors apples and a co workers apples neither know what kind they are but I think are baking apples.
Jan

These are the first pic is my neighbors apples in the bowl, and the 2nd pic the 3 apples are a co workers apples and neither know what kind that they are. I think that my neighbors apples the 1st pic could be macs they are just shaped like them and where the sun is hitting them on the tree they are getting a blush but I don't think that they are ready they are still very green.
The second pick my co workers apples are not as short and squaty as my neighbors apples and some of them have a blush too and I don't think they really are ready either.
Would they be too sour if I made a pie out of those that I have that are already picked because my co worker is bringing me more tomorrow.
But my neighbor I told her to leave hers growing on the tree for a while yet I told her I really don't think that they are ready.
Jan

John what do you think those pics other than the red delicious but the one of mine that is green and the 2 in the last post. Do you have any idea by the way they look in the pic what kind of apple that they are.
You said to post them here and you would see if you knew what kind that they are sorry late but here they are.
Jan

Those look consistent with Red Delicious and a yellow or Golden delicious variety. The green ones dont look like a Lodi or granny smith.

The picture on the left looks sort of like a granny smith...because of the dark green color and the white pin dots. Mac are much more red. Your neighbors apples looks like an older fuji variety but its hard to tell. All green apples and yellow apples can get the blush if they are exposed to the sun. You will notice apples in the store...varieties like Gala, Fuji, and even honey crisp have been gradually getting reder over time. This is desired by the consumer and they have been breeding trees that produce red fruit. In some hot dry places like the columbia basin where alot of apples are grown in WA state you get good coloring but sunburn is a problem but here in the northeast the sun helps those apples develop nice color.

Thanks John I will tell my co worker and my neighbor what theirs possibly may be.
They said that they tried them and they had a good flavor even though they were green but I just figured maybe that they weren't ready yet and that was why they were green.
I guess I will have to try it I keep forgetting to try one.
Thanks again.
Jan

Thanks all, this thread has been a wealth of information (especially from John). I'm fully armed to go rescue that Mackintosh tree going to waste at my MIL's farm.

I even got an unexpected nugget...a pie-crust recipe...thanks Jan, I see apple pie in my future!
Robin