European Union to Outlaw Heirloom Seeds?

Wow. This is something that's coming to the U.S. next, I bet.

http://www.offthegridnews.com/2013/05/06/banned-european-union-to-outlaw-heirloom-seeds/

What a terrible law for we home gardeners.
Surely,---- they do not mean to regulate every seed!

I would start saving seeds, if your not already.

Mad

Here is a link to a copy of the legislation.

http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/health_consumer/pressroom/docs/proposal_aphp_en.pdf

I didn't read every sentence, but I did skim the entire document. It specifically excludes person-to-person trades, and also allows full access to all seeds for organizations like Seed Savers Exchange. As I read it, it is intended to protect growers and consumers by ensuring that any plant material produced is the described material. For the people that are worried about GMO creeping in the food supply, this is the type of regulation necessary to ensure the seeds for a food item are really that item, and not something that has sneaked in from an adjacent field. It would also require commercial seed sales to deliver the intended product, with specific levels of germination... in other words, the red beefsteak with potato leaf plants should not grow small pink tomatoes on regular leaf plants.

Also, there are provisions for small companies, either by number of workers or annual sales, that eliminate fees so the small, specialty, producer isn't overly burdened by compliance. There are also provisions for maintaining existing "old" (heirloom) varieties with minimal effort, so the intent is not to force everyone to buy new seeds from mega-growers.

My personal opinion is that we shouldn't have to have regulations for every little thing. However, it seems that people will often be dishonest or just lazy if there aren't detailed controls with specific enforcement and punishments spelled out.

http://tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=27925

Above is a thread from Tomatoville where you'll see that several folks from Europe are commenting.

Please be sure to read post # 10 from Ami, which updates the original suggested legislation.

Europe has had sanctions before, not well followed, and this new one may not be agreed to by different countries

Again, read post #10 b/c the legislation does NOT target home hobby growers at all, it's mainly for commercial enterprises.

And no, I don't think such legislation would ever appear in the US.

Carolyn

If it does .... A U.S Revolution is in the making !!! Sorry I couldn't resist ...(about targeting homers)

It would be nice if some legislation protected the consumer who is buying seeds.
I think there should be either minimum seed numbers or weight in a package of seeds.
Also the sellers should all be required to give a germination rate with the date of the germination test.
I understand that "Seedy Saturday" swaps are not threatened by this EU proposal.

If it appears in the EU, which has much saner regulations about genetically engineered crops than we do, I don't know why it wouldn't appear here. I was shocked when I heard about this!

Sounds like this is just step one. Seed diversity is in dire danger, everywhere.

This doesn't have anything to do with limiting diversity. It's specified as a consumer protection to be sure that the seeds/grain/timber products sold as commercial material be certified as actually what the producer says it is. It specifically protects private exchanges, and has provisions to encourage diversity. Please don't panic unnecessarily, we have plenty of things going on in the world that deserve our attention.

David

Yes, And I'm from the Government, and I'm here to help you. LOL!

Mad

I'm hoping that you have actually read the link, to scare people when you haven't read it is kind of crazy. Some very informed and educated DGers have posted their take on it. Maybe, like they say, it is for consumer protection. I feel like we are moving into mass hysteria, oh wait, that was when most of the population was illiterate....

So...lisac, you're saying farmers shouldn't be allowed to have a choice on any seed they'd like to plant?

I have to reread it BUT when I read it the first time I didnt get out of it anything that was scary. It just seems like many people are looking for something to be afraid of. I just want to garden. I'm not one to jump to conclusions and evidently I'm not the only one. Yes, farmers should have a choice but I, as the consumer, have a right to know what that is and that is represented as such.

I don't know any illiterate farmers, myself. Most are high-tech, these days. And consumers don't need governments to "protect" them at the expense of their freedom to choose. The rabid "government-should-control-every-aspect-of-life" social network aficionados need to quit, directly or indirectly, working for any entity that seeks to deny people's freedom to choose, in today's atmosphere of informed choice. Individuals can and do research things that can damage or destroy health, just because it's a large corporation funding the research, doesn't mean it's more "true". The insults (people opposed are "scared" or "illiterate" really bothers me. This is just not necessary in a friendly discussion. Just because many don't go along with the control garbage, doesn't mean they're "scared", nor "illiterate".

This message was edited Jun 16, 2013 8:51 PM

1lisac

The government wont tell you whats GMO now, What makes you think they will be more forthcoming in the future?
Government bills and laws are made by big money lobbyists. Not somebody looking out for you or me.

Mad

Forget I said anything at all. I'm not the only one that posted that this legislation is not what it's being made out to be. I'm no longer getting involved in GMO or any political threads. Argue with the other posters that posted what I did.

You're the one who used the words, "crazy", "mass hysteria", and "illiterate". I'm just saying we need to be more mindful of the impact of those kinds of words. Being concerned is not crazy, hysterical, nor illiterate. That's all.

I think you'll agree that we live in a world of apathy, now. People are so involved in day to day things in their work and home life, that they don't pay attention to other things that will eventually come home to roost- legislation, marketing, lobbying, and all the things that happen on that 'higher level' that most of us are too trusting in our legislators to even try to keep up with the things happening on a national or international level that will eventually impact us dramatically. Look at the world 30 years ago and the world today. We turn around and it's like we're in another country, not the one of our great grandparents. Somewhere along the line, we need to stop and survey whether we're on the right road or not. If not, it's time to back up and get back on the right road. Apathy causes people to believe they can't do anything about it. Courage causes people to do something about it. And in honor of my departed dad on Father's Day, I will share a quote he always told us as we were growing up, "A coward dies a thousand deaths; a brave man only one."

Solace, thanks for weighing in. I agree that it's very important that we remain respectful of each others' points of views, even if we don't agree with them. I was just reading the latest on the EU law and there are still serious concerns about its impact on small growers and home and organic gardeners. While home gardeners can swap plant material with impunity, only companies with less than ten employees can sell non-registered seeds, so that organizations that provide material to organic or other specialty gardeners will have a tough time with this. I read the thread about the new regulations on Tomatoville but the last post was three weeks ago so there's nothing current. It bears watching.

http://www.organiclea.org.uk/2013/05/seed-law-update/

This message was edited Jun 17, 2013 8:00 AM

I have re-read the entire 147 page proposal. I still don't see anything that will restrict home-growers access to seeds or plants, or that would in any way limit seed exchanges. It specifically encourages organizations that maintain genetic diversity.

The article from the website "OrganicLea" is correct in that any seed producer employing more than 10 people or selling more than 2-million Euros product annually is governed by the rules. What it fails to say is that there are major exemptions for "Landrace" or what we would call Heirloom varieties. The article also fails to mention the fact that smaller growers have exemptions from the fees, and are allowed to produce plant materials that are categorized in a single group, standard, to minimize the effect of the regulations.

What I do see is a set of controls and definitions that ensure the purity and availability of essential food crops. It seems to me that the groups that are most concerned about this possible regulation are also the same ones that are screaming about genetically modified crops. This is the type of regulation that is absolutely required to keep GMO's out of the food supply. If you want to have GMO product labeling in the store, then you MUST have this type of product control on the farm. I don't think it can go both ways.

As far as our great grandparents: Polio, Smallpox, Tuberculosis, Pneumonia, Syphilis, Spanish Flu, Scarlet Fever, Whooping Cough, etc.
Or look at it from the other side: Antibiotics, Dialysis, Insulin, Chemotherapy, Sonogram/CT/MRI, etc. Also, we have faster, cheaper transportation and can eat a wide variety of fresh fruit and vegetables year-round.

I do agree that we should watch what our governments are doing. For the US, active participation in democracy is the only way we can be sure that our republic stands.

David

David, most of the organizations that save heirloom seeds and distribute them to interested home gardeners have more than ten employees, though. And yes, there are specific exemptions for heirloom, very locally grown, and landrace types, but those concerned about these issue warn that those exemptions can be suspended at any time without going through any sort of public hearing process.

I think people who are posting about this are worried that both the proliferation of GMO varieties and rules such as this could create the same potential for limitations in genetic diversity. In either situation this lack of diversity would render difficult to impossible the development, whether spontaneous or otherwise, of new types of plants to meet challenges due to climate change or specific plant disease entities.

Let me clarify my above comment, as it was not meant to insult anyone. All I was trying to point out is that , not that long ago, only a few people in a community could read so they were relied upon to keep the rest of the community informed. As a result much of the facts were lost, leading to mass hysteria by people that were misinformed.

Now most people can read, but if a topic is to be intelligently discussed, the facts need to be kept separate from interpretation. When I read this I thought it was more for quality control for the consumer...yes I want GMOs to be labeled but I realize that it can't be one way and not the other.

Many of the seed suppliers that I buy from have 1-2 PAID employees.

Thank you for letting me explain myself, but I will no longer participate in this thread.

Still sounds like a lot lawyers with documents to me ) sound of hanging oneself )
gwaaaaack) lol

How else can this be interpreted?:

According to Open-Seeds.org, “If passed [this law] would mean no seed can be sold, or potentially even given for free, to anyone anywhere in the EU unless it is registered on the EU Plant List as an ‘approved’ variety. This would effectively outlaw Heritage [sic] seeds in the EU.”

I'm not sure how open-seeds.org came to that conclusion. I have read the full legislation several times and I cannot find anything to support their interpretation. I can only conclude that the group is promoting fear, uncertainty, and doubt to advance their specific agenda.

Terry, There is still a new website problem with this thread for some of us. The last 2 or 3 words in full sentences are cut off.

Most of the other threads are working okay for me now. And Suggestions?

Ernie

Sabotage ? !!! lol Couldn't resist .. you know the mood ...

>> The last 2 or 3 words in full sentences are cut off.

I don't have that problem, but I had LOTS of problems with the new DG format until I changed from Internet Explorer to FireFox.

Maybe those sentences' growth were stunted by to much Roundup. ;-)

Rick,

I am not about to switch from IE to Firefox, so either i suffer in silence or complain. Terry said she is going to fix the problems but unless she hears about them, she will not be able to do that. At first, a lot of the threads were truncated, then Nicole suggested i scrub my browser and that helped for most of them.
So, for me, some of the tomato threads, this one and i assume if i tried them all, some others would come up short.

Since the sentences in question are too long, it seems more likely that a good shot of Roundup gave them a growth spurt. lol.

Ernie

I did the following
Ran my computer care programs
AS MOST ; scrubbed the browser;
Reset the page size
Restarted the computer .
Basic ' I cleaned everything I could and reset it all ...


I forgot to say ; Even if you clean ., scrub the browser .. it is still a fragmented file to the app . This one here, auto cleans fragmented file apps most do not still
Might help ,, maybe ?


This message was edited Jul 9, 2013 7:51 PM

Juhur,

Thanks,I did frequently clean the computer files on the prior computer, de-fragment, etc, but this newer computer has been doing that automatically for me. I will check and see if the files need de fragging.

I am willing to try anything. Reading these cutoff messages is just like lip reading, which i have to do. You have to guess about half the time, and sometimes you guess right, and sometimes you guess wrong.

Ernie

Ernie ; mine was doing that also for about a day and a half .
Then I went through and did all the routines manually
Disc clean
registry clean
system files
temp internet files
internet cookies (on open browser and computer )
on &on

Well,, after about two or three hours ,, everything was right..Two many net and system styles of function are being used , not to say here particularly,, only as is everywhere ..Makes it difficult for IC standard functioning ...my guess .
Lot of words for system overload errors ,, isn't it .. lol

Juhutr,

I followed your suggestion, but as i thought, this OS automatically cleans and de frags and cleans everything on a weekly basis. Since this is Tuesday, i analyzed the files and 31% needed doing, or some such number. I had to leave the computer while it was doing the work.

When i returned everything had been cleaned.

But what i am finding puzzling about the entire problem, is why do some of the threads work properly, fitting the messages to the designated space, but on a few of the threads, it fails to fit to message to the space.

I will wait and see if Terry sees this and is able to do something. I am sure i am not the only one with this problem.

Thanks,
Ernie

The only thing different on mine is the DG home page fills the screen, all the other pages and threads are smaller .
Maybe a windows filter screen thing at their end .
from here all is okay ..
I am here on Firefox , I have I . E . The newest version . DG system may not of adapted well holding all the older type information . Could guess forever ... and at that . an, oh well , and I wish you good luck and hope you and DG get that worked out okay ..

Juhur,

Just like our Government is too big for anyone to fully understand and run, all these different computer systems and tricks are apparently becoming to numerous for anyone to understand all the different ways it can mess up.

I E is up to version 10, now, i think it is, and does a good job for me, so i will stick with it, and hope the website keeps being "improved" until it is as at least as good as the old one was.

Ernie

The only thing for me is that the selection boxes that used to be side-by-side at the top of each DG page are now vertical, transparent, and imposed upon other writing on the page. I mean the "Home", "Forums", "Communities", "Garden Showcase", and "Products and Sources" tabs. In fact, those are no longer colored boxes at all - they are just the words.

I'm using I.E. and I'll have to try accessing DG in Firefox to see if that changes things. It's not a big deal, as all the tabs still work.

There's a thread that's been set up to discuss issues around the changes to DG and to report problems. It's here:

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1323545/

You might find that helpful.

I have not read the legislation, so I won't make much of a comment, Just wondering if it is for the protection of the consumer why it was necessary to revise the law to exempt the home gardener, and the small businesses does it mean it was not intended to protect them? Or is this legislation more about control of the Agricultural businesses. Some one here stated that they thought all seed packets should contain a minimum number of seeds or a minimum weight, but I think that is effect like stating a minimum price. Do you really want to buy 4 oz. of seed when you would just like to plant a 1/8 oz. of radishes, would you like to pay $8.00 for a pack of seed with way more than you want. That is what happens when the government gets involved in such things. You always give up freedom for regulation in some form! If I were in the senate I would not bother reading the bill, but now I feel compelled to at least try and read it.
Well I didn't get far, got to the point where it said additional controls could be added! I did read where it specifically allowed the trading of seeds or plant material between Two non professional individuals, the key word being two, (would something like garden clubs be considered as not a trade between two non professional individuals)? Anyhow from reading what little I did it was obvious this legislation was written to replace the former legislation and get a tighter grip on everything in the plant related businesses and a promise of more to come. I am not saying that is good or bad yet, I will have to read more.

This message was edited Jul 10, 2013 8:37 AM

This is an example of why government control scares some of us with their control over the agricultural community.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/11/raisin-hell-at-the-supreme-court-raisin-farmers-tired-of-giving-half-their-crop-to-feds-for-free/