Need advice on Tomato varieties

I am building a cold frame for growing tomatoes as it did not seem warm enough here last summer. Only variety i am familiar with is Early Girl, which we used in Idaho, because we only had 100 frost free days. They were okay, but there should be better ones for this climate.

I bought some others last year based on suggestions from fellow shoppers at the Nursery, and they were not good. I am looking for a thin or tender skinned tomato, that has good flavor when vine ripened. I also know of beefsteak which is a good slicer, but will have room for 6 or 8 plants and am hoping for a long season. Thanks for any suggestions.
Ernie

You might want to try the tomato called "San Diego". It’s always been a good producer for me and did well in our little informal neighborhood taste test. Some say tomatos taste different by location. I don't know the history of the San Diego tomato but the name would seem to indicate local. You can usually find San Diego plants at the local nurseries. Not sure where to get seeds.

If you decide to go the heirloom route, you should try Stupice (pronounced stoo-PEACH-ka). It has a beefstake-like flavor and won our taste test hands down. Heirlooms in general won’t give you near as many tomatoes however, so you'll need more plants to get the same volume. I have seeds of these if you'd like some.

You may also want to try posting this question on the tomato forum. The tomato experts there will be sure to have ideas.

Tee,

Thank you for the suggestion and offer of seeds. I will look for and try the San Diego. I prefer started plants, as i have not set up a place yet to start seeds. I had horrible luck with the Heirlooms i tried last year, but if i see the Stupice, i will certainly try it, too.

I looked through the Tomato Forum, and the group is certainly enthusiastic about working and experimenting with lots of different varieties, mostly from seed.

I have also seen Stupice plants around San Diego, but not as many last year as in previous years where it seemed all the nursery's had them.

Good luck!!

Tee,
I do most of my Nursery shopping at a Green Thumb, which has the widest selection, and at Home Depot, which has very good plants of the most popular, [highest volume] varieties. Green Thumb must have had 20 or 30 varieties last year, but i did not know which kinds to buy, so i asked a shopper in there.

Hey Ernie,

I'm with you, nothing worse than a thick skinned tomato. Almost ruins even the best tasting tomato. Tough to say why some tomatoes have think skins and some don't. Weather, water, fertilizer, soil, bugs, etc. Probably have something to do with it. But your guess is as good as mine. You would think genetics have a big role in it(maybe it does) but I have grown many of the same varieties from year to year. One year, tough skins....the next year thin, perfect skin. Funny thing, I gave up on Stupice and Sungold(Favorites of a lot of people) a few years back because their skins were like cardboard when I grew them. Gave both another chance this past year and they were perfect!

Looks like you're pretty close to me. I generally start a few hundred tomatoes this time of year for a March plant out and I always have plenty to giveaway. If my seedlings this year are as good as they have been the past few years, I'd be more than happy to give you a dozen or so to try. I usually grow out anywhere from 30-50 tomato plants a year but plan on cutting back a bit(maybe 25-30). I generally start all mine from seeds these days because with nursery starts I have had wrong labelled plants, plants that were diseased, or just never panned out like they should have.

Do you remember the ones that were recommended by the nursery and shoppers?

Ones that have never had thick skins for me....

OP/Heirloom - Black Cherry, Pink Ponderosa, Cherokee Purple, Black Krim, Anna Russian, Wes, Riesentraube, .....just a few off the top of my head. There's many more.

Hybrids - Big Beef, Momotaro(sometimes sold as "Tough Boy" here), Supersteak.

You can find San Diego tomato at a Armstrong's Nursery usually in March. I've grown it and it's pretty decent. But not a big tomato. Lots of 6 oz fruit. Nothing wrong with that!

Ray, Yes, pretty close. Just off Sycamore north of the freeway. I am pretty familiar with the vagaries from one year to the next. My second career was running a Ball and burlap Ornamental Tree Nursery up in Idaho, and nothing grew the same from year to year. But i know very little about growing flowers and Vegetables, so i am having a good time learning.

I would appreciate very much getting some plants from you and advice from someone that knows which ones are good. I think part of the problem last year was that this location is so cool, so i am building a cross between a cold frame and a wind break, and will grow my tomatoes out in it, with the top and front open, the 4' tall back left in place, and the ends either open or closed depending on the temp and wind. It is 5' X 10' so since i am not going for maximum production, i think i can fit about 8 plants in there. I also have room in the garden if i need to put some of them there. The ground here is very very fertile, but forms a crust, so i have been adding lots of compost.

I had four plants last year. Tommytoes was a round cherry tomato that was very good and sweet, but did not produce all that much for a Cherry tomato. Very few of them made it to the house, as I ate them off the vine. Another small one was a larger oval small tomato, more prolific, but not tender and flavorful, so did not pick them. The two large vines were Heritage, one was from a Baltic country, i believe Yugoslavia, but not sure. The few tomatoes it had never ripened right inside. The other one only had a few, too, none of which were edible. So, except for the Tommytoes, none of them were fit to eat.

I am very excited to see some of the names on your list. What does OP/ stand for? Some of those names i remember seeing on the Tomato Forum, but did not expect to ever be able to find them in the Nursery. The Hybrids i recall some of the members raving about the most were the three on your Hybrid list.

I am from the Big Depression Generation, so if you do have some to give me, i will have to find something to repay your kindness, and with your help i will learn more about tomatoes this year than i would learn in several years on my own.

My pleasure Ernie, don't worry about it. I've just begun sowing a few tomato and pepper seeds this past weekend. They'll be ready in about 6-8 weeks. So keep in touch, I should have plenty to choose from. I'm gonna be growing a lot of dwarf varieties this year, along with the usuals.

I'm surprised you said it was cold there last summer. Figured the coast was only like that.

"The few tomatoes it had never ripened right inside." - Yup, I have had the same problem on a few really large tomatoes. Believe it's caused from cool, cloudy weather.

OP= Open Pollinated, meaning they will come true from seed, like heirlooms do. Hybrids will not come true from seed. Don't know who said it, but the saying goes..."All Heirlooms are OP's but not all OP's are Heirlooms."

Ray, I will certainly keep in touch with you, as i am anxious to get some good tomatoes growing. Up in Idaho, with about 16 to 18 hours of daylight, it was pretty easy to grow good tomatoes, so i never paid much attention to them and when i went by the garden i would just grab a couple and eat out of hand. So good no salt of salad dressing was necessary.

We are right at the bottom end of a drainage system, and it sucks the cool ocean air in as the inland hills warm up. There were only 3 or 4 days that we would have turned an air conditioner on if we had one.

Thanks for the definition. Every subject has a language of its own. When i retired from Heavy Construction and started the tree Nusery, i had to learn an entirely different language. Now, reading the Forums, i see many unfamiliar abbreviations.

Ernie, sounds like you microclimate is great for humans, if not for tomatoes! I WISH we only had 3-4 days with a need for AC!! We do get some ocean breeze here, so we have cool evenings though. When I lived on the coast, in San Pedro, most people did not even have AC in their homes.

Ray mentioned Armstrong Gardens nursery. I see the closest to you is maybe Carlsbad. For the last several years I have taken advantage of their free gardening classes (available at all stores) at the Temecula store. The have a couple on tomatoes specifically as well as on other veggies. I have purchased tomato plants from them, and they have a huge variety, as well as from (of all places) Wally World and have done some seed starts. I have not made notes as to size or skin thickness as when I pick them all varieties go into the same bag/basket/bucket or directly into my mouth. I really love the Black Krim for its deep and slightly smokey taste. I have also grown Purple Cherokee, Brandywine heirloom, and Beefsteak. I have tried San Diego too.. Last year I grew all veggies in very large pots (one per pot) and the previous year in strawbales (see Strawbale Forum here on DG). Both years I had about 11 plants, but had tons of tomatoes from the strawbales. I have never seen clusters of tomatoes like I have in some pictures though. Here, the tomatoes go dormant for the hottest months, then pick up again in fall when it is a race for them to ripen before the first freeze. I had a bunch of green ones to pick the beginning of Dec before frost and they 'reddened up' on the kitchen counter eventually. Not pretty, but still better than store bought.

I should have saved some seed from some of those heirlooms! I should get seed started for veggies, but it seems to take so long for the outdoor temps to be as warm as those tomatoes like at night when they are planted outside. I have read tomatoes would like it to be about 78 degrees 24/7 and I have no idea where that might be!

Heaven.....

Nirvana, Shangri-La? Although for me, 72 daytime and 60 night time would be perfect.

Here is a seed company http://jlhudsonseeds.net/ that is in California.

Tomatoes are well described.

I grow peaches>

http://www.ivygarth.com/images/A1.htm is another place that has a large variety, but, is more expensive because of the large number of seeds in a pack.

Many smaller seed sellers (like Park) buy from this kind of wholesaler and then repackage them.

They are nice folks.

I like my plants in container, mostly...

This message was edited Jan 14, 2012 5:54 PM

Beautiful yard, Dale

Is that a papaya tree?

On the left two papaya (from seed) and then a Mango (from seed). Right of the house is an Avacado I grew from seed. I bought most of the other plants.

I like flowers mostly....you can see the Mango in the left of this frame.

This message was edited Jan 14, 2012 6:19 PM

I think Dale can grow anything. His Coleus are magnificent. I am getting ready to place my coleus order. Sharon

Dale, do your fruit trees from seeds produce fruit (well, I did see papayas) and how many years did that take?

Such a lovely garden!

Mango, 5-6yrs (pictured plant was 3yrs old) Papaya, 1st year. Avacado 6-7yrs. Peach tree 4-5yrs. Add 2-5yrs for the first big crop.

I would take a picture of my peach trees, but, they have no leaves.

San Francisco, Aug 2009

That is amazing about the Papaya. It is obviously very happy there and you likely seldom get cold weather. My peach tree (new last summer) has buds on it since we have had 2 weeks of warm weather - as high as 85!

Can you grow tomatoes year 'round?

Year around tomato harvest is possible, but, not from one plant. Our summers are too humid for most varieties and they rot in the night time heat and humidity.

Winter is the season for commerical/field crop tomato harvest.

I have one supplier that went to Hawai'i and brought back some hybrid seed for summer planting. They weren't very productive and they had to be grown in the shade to beat the heat of summer nights.

The only place I have lived that had perennial tomato plants was Brownsville, TX. The plants had very few fruit in summer, but, winter was great. I had a Army buddy that grew one plant of cherry tomato that got to be 12 feet across. Wish I had a photo - it was impressive.

I am big on flowering plants>

I have had 'Champion' with fruit until new years in a good year. Right now I have a yellow grape tomatoe that volenteered from last year that is loaded with blooms and green fruit. I was amazed when I looked at it and saw that it actually was setting fruit. This one wants to take over the world.

Year round tomatoes here. Especially since it's been so dry and sunny this winter. Warm during the day but pretty cold most nights. Regardless of the cold nights a few tomato plants are doing pretty good.

Ernie,

I am a big fan of seed buying. I usually grow things in community pots. I have trays left over from plugs that I use on some of my jobs. I buy the seeds of plants I find interesting, but, not generally available locally. I drop 3 or more seeds in a cell, cover them and water. Some times I will cover the trays or containers with white plastic - it helps keep the moisture level even.

Building a small unheated greenhouse would seem like a good idea in a cool climate.

I was looking thru JL Hundson's tomato varieties, they offer Sub Arctic Plenty and another called San Francisco Fog - good for cool climates. At $2.50 for a pkg they seem cheap. A started tomato plant, a small one, runs a couple bucks in this neck of the woods.

Dale, Thanks for your suggestions. When i mention the cold location, it is only relative as i live well within Zone 10A, but the 5 or 10 degree drop from the cool afternoon breeze is enough to make a difference.

I have just started some seeds for other things, but Ray, of Oceanside, which is close to me, has very generously offered me a small selection of various kinds of Tomatoes, along with comments as to his preferences, from the large variety of tomatoes that he starts and grows. I am delighted with the offer as that will save me several years of experimenting and searching for seeds on my own.

Living in Florida, you may find it hard to visualize gardening with only 100 frost free days, but for the 18 years i lived close to the 49th paralell, in North Idaho, that was all we had. So the only tomato i am familiar with is the Early Girl. I am amazed to read about all the varieties and the aspects of the different kinds the members here write about.

Your term of an unheated greenhouse is probably more descriptive of what i am building than just a cold frame. It is basically a Sun catcher and Wind break. The four foot tall North wall and frame will is permanent, the top and sides are removable, and the ends will either be left in place or removed after i have experience with it. It also has a self opening hatch on the top if it gets too warm early in the season. It is based on an idea and method i used to grow grapes successfully in Idaho, where no one else had much luck with them.

Ernie

Ernie, I spent my first 21 yrs living & gardening on the northern edge of zone 4 in Minneapolis. June, July, Aug and a couple weeks of Sept. was our season.

I always thought that the Aspen trees that grew wild in peoples gardens grew all over the US. And that it snowed on everyone every winter.

When I was 17 I went to Miami with the Luthern Youth group in late Aug. It was quite the surprise to see all the different palm trees growing in the ground. That was when I decided I would always live in a place where palms grew outside.

Dale,
There is no doubt So. CA or Fla. is a much nicer and easier place to live. But as i was growing out large Shade and Ornamental trees for a Ball and Burlap operation, I did appreciate the 18 hours of daylight we had in the summer time. But after a while that was not enough to offset the 14 feet of snow we had one winter. The Nursery operation got too big the last few years to allow time for much gardening, but I did grow 37 pounds of red potatoes on one vine, weighed and photographed, when i first moved up there. I still try to get up there every Autumn, but never again in the winter, for sure. Ernie

Ray,

I posted a comment on your picture of the beautiful tomatoes a couple of days ago, but since it did not make it all the way to the forum, i will do it again.

I am coming along well with the cold frame, and really appreciate your offer to share some of your selected tomato varieties.

We are still having frequent frosts here at my place, but the frost line on the grass only gets to within about five feet of the house. I moved the Mexican Lime tree closer to the house, and am covering it, and covering and hanging a light bulb in the Guava tree, so while a lot of damage was done to the leaves and recent growth, i am hoping to prevent any further damage so the trees will recover quicker.

i also bought a couple of minimum/maximum thermometers, trying to pinpoint the coldest spots, but i suppose now i will be like the guy with two wrist watches, worrying about which one is correct, since there is a degree or two difference in the thermometers.

Ernie

Ray, those are great looking tomatoes. Is that a current shot? That one orange tomato near the top looks like there is a baby yellow one coming out of it. You are in a great temperate zone. Although I actually like the coldness we get here, at least for me, I still miss the year around mild weather of when I lived on the coast in San Pedro overlooking Catalina Island. I DO NOT like the hot summers here, but do remember going to Palm Springs in June during the days and days of 'June Gloom'.

Hi quiltygirl, yup that pic was sometime last week. Today I picked over 50 tomatoes off of 2 plants. It has been such a warm, dry winter the tomatoes are quite flavorful for winter grown ones. But it's time to pick, chop down and cleanup the rest for spring planting. With the recent rains, Gray Mold is starting to show up again. My biggest problem when growing tomatoes here.

Yeah, that one tomato grew a nose :-)

It is hard to beat the weather here. Don't need AC and use the heater maybe twice a year. Gotta love June Gloom, but my plants hate it. Disease pressure is high in months of overcast, cool weather. It wasn't bad last year, only 3 weeks of it. 2 years ago it got quite annoying, lasted for 3 months straight. It's nice but sure hope it doesn't last that long ever again.


Ernie,

Too funny about the thermometers. I have 3 around the yard and on the deck. I've pinpointed the coldest spots in my yard. My tropicals have taken a pretty big hit this winter since they are they are furthest from the house. I see a 5 degree difference from the fence line compared to the house(only about 50 feet away).

The seedlings are looking good and should be ready for a March plant out. Have 200 in the patio greenhouse and another 50 under lights in the house. So far, so good.

Ray,

It is interesting how sharp a line the frost on the grass draws, as it forms. It forms heaviest near the parts that are in dense shade during the day, naturally, as that ground would not have as much warmth from the sun. Then as it moves it follows the elevation contours, upwards, which is at an angle to the fence, I will place the thermometers tomorrow, and get more precise information, but i have not had any more damage since i started covering if the local forecast is below 40 degrees. Since my estimate is about a 5 degree differential, that gives me a few degrees cushion, but once i confirm that difference, i will not need to cover as often.

Ernie

Ray,

I installed the expansion operated window opener on the cold frame, and it has a method to adjust the temperature at which it opens the panel. It does not show the relationship to any temperature scale.

Do you have any thoughts on what the minimum and maximum temperatures tomatoes prefer?

It will not be able to hold a steady average, it just opens at a certain temperature, and then closes again when it cools off. So, it seems to me the most important thing would be to open the hatch before it gets too warm for the tomatoes.

It does not have any information on what the operating differential is, but i will be able to discern some of that, by checking the temp when it activates up or down.

Thanks,
Ernie

I have had my best luck with tomato plants when they had warm days (80's) and cool nights (60's).

Dale,

Thanks. I think to start out, i will try to get it to open at about 70 or 75, as there will probably be a lag time before it stops heating up.

I do not want to overheat them, either.

Ernie

I'm a little late getting in on this discussion, but I thought I'd mention the Quail Gardens (or as they now insist on calling it San Diego Botanic Garden) Tomatomania which is coming up on March 17th and 18th for those of you close to Encinitas or willing to drive over. Here's the link: http://www.SDBGarden.org/herbfest.htm .

This year it's a combination of tomatoes, herbs, and a plant sale. I've been going the last three years and they have so many varieties of tomatoes it makes your head spin, plus they have knowledgeable people to help you figure out which ones are best which areas, and for whether you want slicing, sauce, etc. tomatoes. The prices are also very reasonable. The earlier you go the better as it's quite popular, and if you haven't been there before take some time to tour the gardens which are lovely.

Ernie I see you didn't have good luck with tomatoes last year. It was an absolutely horrible year here at the coast because of so little sun most of the summer, and from others I talked to even inland in Vista, it was a bad veggie garden year for many. I finally just stopped watering and gave up. The year before was a bit better, but still less sun than normal at the coast. I gather from reading your posts that you're somewhat new to the area. We usually have June gloom on the coast, although it's no longer necessarily in June, might be in April, May, or ???, and last year it was inland too on many days which is unusual. Then it usually clears up and we have plenty of sun the rest of the summer. Where you are in Vista tomatoes should do very well once the danger of frost is past.

I've been here over fifty years. Grew up at the beach and then spent 17 years in Vista, and am now back closer to the coast as I strongly dislike the heat and become a wilted grouchy slug. In the last 20 years our weather has definitely changed, this winter being another example with our on and off again cold and warm weather, and so little rain. My plants are all confused. Hopefully it will settle back into some kind of predictable pattern.

Annie,

Thank you for the suggestion. Ray of Oceanside, has kindly offered to help me get started with some of his plants. I finished the Cold Frame cum Greenhouse, not sure what to call it as it is about 4 foot taller than most cold frames and about four feet lower than most greenhouses, but my location here was just too cold for tomatoes last summer. The weather was lovely for us, as we do not have AC, and it was too warm only 3 or 4 days all summer. But the cool breeze that felt good to me did not suit the tomatoes, plus i made bad choices in the plants. I have one Early Girl plant in the cold frame, as a test, and keeping the day time temps between 75 and 90 seems to please it as it is thriving. Still learning how to regulate the heat by removing panels, but am pretty sure i can keep them warm this summer.

We live near Sycamore and 78, and there is a nice current of cool air that comes up the valley, but the pay back is that our winter temps are about 4 or 5 degrees below the Vista forecast. So I have more frost than my neighbors a block up the street. I provide protection to the sub tropicals when the forecast is below forty degrees now, and have not had anymore damage.

I have lived in So CA most of the time since 1936, near Norwalk and Long Beach, so I know June Gloom, but the weather down here is much nicer than it is up there.

I spent 18 Springs, Summers and Falls in Idaho running a Tree Nursery as a second career, but wintered in CA. Moved back to Long Beach in 1998, and lived on my Sail Boat until last April, when we moved here.