It all depends on who is looking at the paintball. Some cops might decide it is an attempt to do harm. I was told that even putting tabasco or habanero pepper spray on my plants to keep neighbors horses from eating them would be considered "intent to harm" another's property. Since animals are considered "dumb" certain courts and authorities, do not consider them capable of "intent", however the human trying to protect his property is.
A Neighbor's Dog
jylgaskin, I surely don't envy you. In every state I've lived (NY, FL, and SC) I have had the right to protect my livestock or crops from "transgression".
How far does this go?? If you put up electric fence, or barbed wire, is that intent to harm? Is there some kind of archaic right to graze on common land type ordinance that would allow someone elses stock to eat your crops? Is there a list of what kind of critters you cannot "harm"? Why can't you turn it around and charge the dogs or horses with intent to harm _your_ property? Id think your case would be the stronger, since it is on private property? I'd be seeking legal counsel *g*.
I'm glad I don't plan to move, I'd have to find out about that in other states.
Has anyone else had this kind of issue?
Catmad, Jyl has been through the legal system and speaks from experience. In our state I'm pretty sure that you have the right to protect crops and livestock from marauding animals, but it may just take one unsympathetic judge or one neighbor with deep pockets to cause a lot of problems. I think it's a lot worse in eastern states than in western or midwestern ones, though.
If I put tabasco spray on my plants to keep deer away, I don't see how I'd be considered responsible if the neighbor's horse ate them and was unhappy about it, but then, every case is different.
EWEED from Everson is just a stones throw from me, and I must say I firmly agree with the Farmers Justice. I have applied it here many times. I have always believed we best train our neighbors by "Saying what we mean, and meaning what we say" Don't speak hastily but speak firmly. I also like PorkPals mind set, I want to inflict some pain, it makes it a "MEMORABLE MOMENT" it seemed to work well with my children as well...Haystack
Our horses love tabasco.
The Key to covering your actions, is to keep a journal including pic's of whats going on. Log all of your attempts to rationally solve the problem, that takes patience. If you take the time to do this so you can show the community and courts how hard you have tried. Seldom will you loose in court. When I shot my neighbors cattle, I had tried for over three months to solve the problem peacefully, and rationally, I took at least fifty pic's, of his cattle in my garden, I took several pic's of the holes in his fence that he would not mend. I called the Sheriff's dept, with no help, I then calle my local County Council Woman. When she came out I also took pic's of her looking at my destroyed garden. I did that so if push came to shove and I ended up in court, I could prove the steps I had taken. Barb, the council woman spoke with the offender and the very next day they were back in my yard. Guess What. He has not had any cattle since. Problem Solved. Enough is enough...Hay
Frequently a farmer and the average homeowner are treated diffrently on this subject. A farmer can protect his livestock or crops, but since I did not sell my produce, flowers or chickens, it was considdered a hobby and I was not afforded the same rights. I know. It makes no sense. When I tried to present photos and evidence of earlier damage, I was then labled a "stalker" and it was used to lend credence to that charge.
Can I hijack here and say we had fires in our area last night? Well, we did. No rain, and high winds. Haven't heard the damage yet, but it burned down houses and businesses and several small towns were evacuated. http://amarillo.com/news/latest-news/2011-02-27/wildfire-prompts-mandatory-evacuations-northeast-potter-county
Hijack complete.
Sorry about your problems there Jyl, doesn't sound very just to me. That's a shame. We all have our problems, I know I have mine here where I live. Seems there are always people that cause others harm, and enjoy doing it. Guess that's why we have all these laws, people just can't get along and treat each other right.
My neighbor may be going to prison. I sure hope he does. I know that sounds terrible but he is a sneaky, sly, alcoholic little devil and they finally picked him up again driving drunk. It's his third offense, and I am definitely considering writing a letter and letting the judge know all the trouble he is causing in the neighborhood. Since I can include the case number it will go in his file. He shot a man in the neck with a pellet gun about four years ago. I am 99% sure he did it. He could have put that man's eye out! I do not feel safe going outside, day or night in the front yard, just thinking about him with that gun. He has killed several cats and shoots all the neighbors dogs, including mine, with that gun. He makes sexual comments to all the women around, no matter how young or old. He chased my sixteen year old daughter around in her car one day when he was drunk. We should have called the police then, but I didn't want to cause trouble. I strongly suspect he has shot out windows on my property a few blocks over, because he knows it's mine. Yep, I hope he goes to prison. While he does all this, he and his wife gossip and start rumors about everyone else in the neighborhood, truth or fiction, mostly fiction. None of it is their business anyway. I just can't decide if I ought to sign my name to the letter or not. If I decide to sign it, I will have to word it very carefully I suppose, so as not to incriminate myself.
This is my philosophy: I mind my own business and don't bother other people, and I expect the same from them.
LFJ and jylgaskin, I really feel for you guys. I've had the ultimate neighbors from heck (you know...). We ended up moving when the opportunity came. I know that is not always an option, but that tells you how bad it was. I left my garden and a house I'd been fixing up for ten years. It sold in a week. And then it has sold three times since. Each time it holds its resale value or better. Have heard from a couple of old neighbors that the two sets of neighbors I had trouble with have figured prominately in each decission to sell. So it wan't just me.
Sorry to see and hear about those wild fires. Hope you got some of the rain we got last nigh/this morning. A little too late but anyway...
Melissa_Ohio, let us know what happens when you call this woman.
In 06 I stepped out my front door, looked north, and saw the entire sky lit up in orange and pink. It was night but it was all lit up. It was quite terrifying, I don't mind saying. So, last night I was quite uneasy.
According to the news, 35,000 acres burned north of Amarillo last night.
Fire is really terrifying!
I am lucky with my neighbors. First of all none are very close. Several often do really stupid things but they are not mean or purposely annoying. I hope they can say the same for me - except the stupid part, perhaps.
I had bad neighbors one time. We were blessed not to live there long. All my other neighbors have been good. We only have 1 neighbor now that we can see and they are good folks so we are blessed again.
Hope west Texas gets some rain soon to put those fires out.
We actually live in a wonderful neighborhood, except for the one. People around us love the animals that I raise and my gardens. Their children play in my yard and they all take care of their own dogs. Even people I didn't ask came to court to support me. I really can't imagine living anywhere else.
I'm so glad to hear that people voluntarily came to court to support you. It must have made a huge difference in the way you felt about that whole ordeal, knowing that you had that kind of backup. But apparently the judge wasn't impressed?
Sadly, legal and just are not the same thing at times.
Not at all. In fact her lawyer accused us of filling the gallery with "angry and intimidating" supporters. The judge tried to clear the room of everyone of them except the subpoenaed ones. Then my lawyer was so overconfident that he never called them to testify. I don't know if it would have made any difference or not. They always say that "The Truth Will Overcome", but in court, lies rule and we are at the mercy of the lawyers and judges. Bad Lawyer, incompetent judge......you loose.
It has totally changed the way I look at life. Everything is not so black and white any more. I no longer believe in the death penalty, because I see how easily someone could be convicted of a crime he might not have actually committed. I still live my life based on truth and honesty, but not because I believe it makes a difference. Rather, it is because it is the only way I know how to live.
Sounds like my "wake up" call when a thousand people in this area sued the chemical company for dumping all their waste onto the plant sight ground for forty years. Where else could all that contamination go but into our ground water? The water well for our town was one mile from the plant. So why were we in the top 95% for cancer and auto immune disease?
The entire court case was eventually sealed, and there was no justice for anyone.
I cried a few thousand tears over that suit. I had been the little girl with her hand over her heart that believed there was "liberty and justice for all" in this land. Boy, was I surprised when it all came down. How naive I had been to have trusted those lawyers and the court system. I also thought because I was a Christian and was praying that I would get what I asked for. Big wake up call in that area too. Guess what, I am not God. :D
I came to the realization that there are some very wicked people running this country and planet. It is not the citizens of the land they wish to protect, it is themselves and their vast wealth. They are NOT Christians, far from it. That's as far as I can go without getting too political or religious, but I still believe there will be justice and there will be judgement when this world and life are over.
At this time, mankind is being allowed to do just as they please, whether it be good or evil. Each individual's true colors will come out. That's what this testing time is all about. Your judge was showing his colors.
We're really blessed to have such good neighbors. I hope none of them ever move! We all help each other. The closest neighbor has two dogs that come every morning to poop in my yard. They're old dogs, they've been pooping in that same spot before we even built this house. I just clean it up and say nothing. Their dogs are fiercely protective of this area and I've seen them chase away coyotes many many times. More than fair trade off I think. While I think there are a lot of unfair and criminal things happening in this world - I see SOOOOOO much more good happening, by far.
I agree Annie. Even with all that happened, I don't consider myself a pessimist. I believe that all men are born inherently good. It is what we chose to do with our lives that determines what we become. That's what appealed to me about the Buddhist philosophy...it's all up to us. No one or entity makes us do anything, nor will they help us when things go wrong. It is up to the individual to take the situation and learn from it and make of it what he will. Bad things will always happen. The only thing we can control is how we react to it. We have been given a truly wonderful world to live in, it is filled with sentient beings just like ourselves. Each has the same desire...happiness. When you look at it that way, it is much easier to find forgiveness, compassion and tolerance in ourselves.
I agree with you that all men are born inherently good. The rest, well, I was born and raised Catholic. Nuff said! LOL Back to chickens before we get into trouble with the Mods :-)
God guides me but I am created with a free choice and I am responsible for the choices I make. I can rely on God's help and I depend on it.
CajuninKy
I fail to see what the above has to do with a bandit dog that kills ones chickens.
Eweed, I was wondering that too....
- A random moment of inspiration?
Perhaps! Oh, well, something for us all to contemplate, I imagine.
Coonversations, just like life, don't always go where we expect them to.
I thought it was in response to AnnieB. What she said rings of truth to me, and I can't see why anyone would object to the comment. We all freely express our views here and threads often go way off course, don't they?
Speaking of choices, this one man on paltalk is always talking about that subject. "It's all about choices" he says. Choices to do wrong, or choices to do right. He always mentions that every time I see him. He's probably right too.
This message was edited Mar 6, 2011 8:28 PM
Makes perfect sense to me... just have to read the few posts before it. :) It wouldn't be a DG thread if it didn't have a lot of side tracks in the main conversation. Much more pleasant than my neighbor's dog, that's for sure.
Well, the reference eludes me but oh well! Could have been a response to an off-thread Dmail exchange, too.
Anything new with your neighbor, Melissa? Have you spoken to her yet and how is your roo?
This message was edited Mar 7, 2011 8:32 AM
I'll try to make sure that I pay closer attention to keeping my comments exact to subject matter. I really don't want to upset or offend anyone.
I'd love to know how it comes out with the chickens though.
I'm all for that, and will try to contain myself as well. I like talking chickens. Everyone is quite gracious and forgiving here. That's one reason I enjoy it.
We all get of topic at times, and yes things have been said that don't always jive with what's being said, but we all just have a little laugh and understand all familys are a little goofy at times...it's fun and I love it...Hay
Hummm one post by someone who was not in the conversation doesn't seem like enough "input" to stop me from saying what I want! LOL Since when do we stay on topic here? I'm not changing my comments till admin steps in to tell me to.
Such a Rebel:...LOLOL
Sorry I did not make myself clear. That is the first time I have ever done that. LOL I was refering to post #8400211 and simply stating my beliefs on the subject of that post, not the thread in general.
Ah, now it makes sense.
Reading Jyl's message carefully and then yours, it does make sense! You were presenting your beliefs in contrast to hers.
Yes, that's what I thought. I read them all at the same time that day, so I got it.
These stories are so interesting. I don't own the farm I live on. It belongs to my inlaws and we stay in the mother-in-law house next to theirs. They have two dogs which have killed about a half dozen of my birds or so. We have at least two neighbor dogs (not fixed) that come into our yard. So far, none have killed my livestock, but they do piss all over everything which infuriates the heck outta me. My in laws won't let me say or do anything about it because it would be "un-neighborly". Huh? If it was up to me, we wouldn't have any dogs, but it's not my choice. We have coyotes, so that's the only plus side of having them, but since they sleep inside at night, there's no real benefit, I guess.
Hey Melissa... SO sorry to hear you have dog problems again. I remember vividly the last time... sigh.
I think off and on about getting chickens, but I have a neighbor who lets his dogs run loose all the time. They cut across my property to drink from my spring, and I know they killed my old fat cat last summer. The owner is just as bad... came across the fence and into my barn when I first moved here, just to see what I was building inside the barn (a workshop). Nosy man. I'm prepared to shoot his dogs if ever necessary even though he thinks because I'm a newcomer, I don't count with the Law.