Will It Work?

I want to create a small woodland in the back part of my yard, which is about 45' X 35', with a focus on native trees, shrubs, and groundcover for birds. For the evergreen trees, I've come up with Picea glauca, Pinus strobus, Juniperis (horizontalis, communis, virginia), Thuga occidentalis, and Tsuga canadensis as possibilities. I like the Picea glauca because it seems narrow, but can grow tall, which is OK on the left side of the picture . . . nothing is above. But will it look too large? Any suggestions for evergreens? I want to stay away from cultivars because I hear they may not produce cones and may revert, like the really disturbing picture on this link: http://www.hort.uconn.edu/plants/p/picgla/picgla1.html (scroll down to 'specific liability' under 'cultivars', if you dare to look)

On the right side of the picture, the lowest branch of the silver maple is about 20' up, so I will put understory trees and shrubs there. I'm thinking about two or three trees, 10 shrubs and groundcover altogether.

So . . . do you think all this will work? Is it too much? Any evergreen suggestions? Thanks!!

P.S. That's a redbud sapling by the stump and a few Amelenchier stoloniferas (serviceberry shrubs) along the fence where you see sticks to mark their whereabouts. Also, that little guy in a cage is an evergreen I rescued as a seedling from a nook in the silver maple bark. It started out as 1/2" (I thought it was moss!!) autumn before last and has grown 8"!!!)

I would also suggest, for color, using some cultivar of Blue Spruce (Picea pungens) such as 'Montgomery' which stays under 8' but forms a nice pyramidal cone of blue. Although it is a cultivar, I've never seen one revert like the cultivars of White Spruce (Picea glauca) are more prone to do. You might also consider Serbian Spruce (Picea omorika), one of most narrow of spruces, with nice up-turned branches. How about a native holly, or one of the hardy blue holly cultivars?

Thinking of planting for the birds, though, you would need only two or three evergreens, depending on final size of what you choose. Berry producing trees and shrubs are very important for winter feeding of birds. This winter, the birds are really utilizing smaller-fruiting cultivars of crabapples and also viburnums (especially cranberry viburnums) for getting through the blizzards and heavy snows. Chokeberries (Aronia) are excellent for winter forage.

I'd have thought Picea glauca would be fine, it doesn't get all that tall, and (when growing well) is a nice tree.

Enjoyed the comment about those dwarf Picea glauca cultivars!! Of course once they're fully reverted, they will give you a cone crop, and turn into attractive normal Picea glauca trees, but there is that long awkward period when they're an ugly half-and-half like that uconn pic ;-)

Resin

Unless you use a "dwarf" cultivar (like P. glauca 'Conica' a.k.a. Dwarf Alberta Spruce) of Picea glauca, the species averages 40-60' in height and 10-20' in width. The national champion is 130' by 30'. Also, I've found that with the gradual warming and resultant zone changing in this country, White Spruces are suffering in the southern limits of their range, Zones 5 and 6, with major dieback, disease, and insect infestations (red spider and bagworms especially) that were minor problems up to a few years ago.

Resin - I know, those pictures were wild, weren't they? Really awful. I actually feel bad for the poor Frankenstein tree! : )

Hoosier - Aahh! Native holly! Will consider that. That little caged guy in the pic actually is a blue spruce, I think. He sure is looking blue as he grows. I think I may go with one P. glauca - it will be large, but OK in that one area. Then a couple other smallish ones. You know what? I actually have two black Aronias in the front of the house. In 6 years, I've seen one bird at them and he just kind of checked out and flew off. I think I've spoiled my birds with the seed!

Thanks to both of you!

Wait . . . Hoosier, did you say "zone changing"? Someone told me that a few months ago and I thought, "No way. If the USDA changed zones, I would have known about it." But now you said it. Seriously? Maybe I should rethink P. glauca. I thought it would be OK because I'm about 30 miles south of the edge of its distribution area. (Unless I'm mixing it up with something else.)

Really - did the USDA change our zones??? Whooa.

The USDA hasn't changed the zones, although I think some people are speculating that they might. The Arbor Day foundation has published new & updated zones where many areas shifted to a warmer zone (this isn't new--their updated zones have been out for at least a couple years) http://www.arborday.org/treeinfo/zonelookup.cfm The climate shift that would cause the updating of the zones is a reality in many places though regardless of whether the USDA has gotten around to making it official (although everyone who's buried under snow & ice right now would probably disagree!)

That's a more serious worry - it'd be worth trying to find out why it isn't native where you are, particularly with climate change moving things north, rather than south. I remember reading somewhere, the southern limit of several of the boreal conifers is due to soil conditions, they are not adapted to the lime-rich soils which occur widely just south of their native ranges. If you have alkaline soil, White Spruce won't do well. Maybe try a lime-adapted spruce like Picea omorika (Serbian Spruce) instead.

Resin

PS here's what I call a tall tree . . .

Good points, Resin. The soil here in central Indiana is lime-based, but Illinois has huge portions of wonderful black prairie soil, although I'm not sure what sherriseden has to work with.

Zone change: What I was referring to more specifically was not "official" changes, although there are lots of rumors of that coming, but more of what we are already experiencing. In my Zone 5b, over the past ten years or so, I've been noticing that there are lots and lots of plants surviving that didn't stand a chance twenty years ago. These include loblolly pines (WalMart sold them... laughed when I saw them for sale and now marvel when I see them growing 20' tall now), crepe myrtles (die to the ground but survive and grow like weeds the next year), nandinas (usually defoliate, but leaf out fine in the spring), blue Atlas cedars (have seen them over 15' tall ... growing in the open), vinca major (dies back but regrows invasively all summer), Southern magnolias, calla lilies (next to masonry with a southern exposure "microclimate", and many formerly 'half-hardy' annuals (reseeding as usual, but also re-sprouting from the roots!).

The experts might not have officially changed the zones, but I consider our area an easy Zone 6, for sure. We've had some cold winter temps, too, over the past few years, but it doesn't seem to bother the survival of these "new" plants species. The cold snaps have been short, just for one or two days, so maybe that's made the difference.

Interestingly, these zone-misplaced plants have usually been sold by big box stores and purchased by people who "don't know better". That they survive and grow well is a surprise to experienced gardeners, but have enriched gardens for all of us.

The flip side is that some plants are showing stress with the warmer climate. The first one I've noticed having more trouble than normal was Dwarf Alberta Spruce. There is also an increase in plant disease and insects that were more rare twenty years ago. I never saw a bag worm until about 13 years ago and now they are common on all types of plants. Red spiders are more of a problem, Japanese beetles have extended there range, Zimmerman's pine borer is becoming a serious pest on popular Austrian pines, and "sudden white pine death" is much more common. Most of these problems (except for Japanese beetles) indicate plants under stress.

Any one else have similar observations or experiences "stretching the zone"?

Resin - Well, my soil tests at 6.5 Ph (lab) and 7 Ph (home test), so I guess it's neutral to slightly acidic, a good place to be, I think. Also, my soil has very high levels of the minerals: phosphorus, potassium, magnesium (per lab and home test) but not much nitrogen (per home test kit). I'm adding blood meal to correct. I've heard our soils (alluvial?) are clay loam which I think mine is and normally high in the minerals, low in nitro. Anyway, I think I've got my choices down to Tsuga canadensis, Pinus strobus, or Thuja occidentalis for the one big tree. The little trees and shrubs will be easier to pick - deciduous with lots of berries!!

Wow, that IS a big tree! You are very lucky to live in such a wonderful environment, Resin!

Hoosier - Thanks for clarifying. I have heard stories of people up here overwintering their canas outside in the recent few years!

Ecrane - This week, global warming would be a tough sell to Chicago folks. We're sitting under 20+ inches of snow. Here's my backyard the day after the storm last week. That is a five foot fence!!

With that soil, almost any conifer would do well, as long as drainage is reasonable. Your climate's wrong for trees like that 57 metre Abies grandis above, though! It is in a wood not too far from where I live, and yes, a stunning place to be (makes one feel very small!).

Yeah, global warming is still biting though - one of the main predictions was an increase in the number of freak weather events, both cold and hot. This winter, it's been so warm in the arctic that the Inuit in northwest Greenland haven't been able to do their normal fishing and hunting, as the ice is too thin to be safe to go out on. And that hasn't happened ever before, in their recorded history.

Resin

This country's winter ranks as a "freak weather event", for sure!

You said it, Hoosier - spring, too. Up here, we got 7" of rain in one day in April and the week before "thunder hail" after an 80 degree day. Resin, that is so sad about the Inuit. Reminds of the movie "The Day After". (I think that's the name - where it was snowing somewhere way south like Hawaii and hot up in the arctic circle . . .)