Japanese Maple Questions

I just purchased a gallon size tree, Meijer's is clearing them out for $7.19 each, nice shape, good leaf color. Now here are the questions. Since I live in zone 5A, winters are really cold. Do I need to wrap it, or how do I protect it. I plan to plant it near my pond that is in the open part of the yard. Any suggestions???

It would help a lot to know the specific name of your tree--there are so many different kinds of JMs. But generally speaking, 5a is a risky zone. It would be best to wait until spring to plant it, if you have an unheated garage where you could keep it over the winter. Many people in your zone keep their JMs in pots their entire lives, in order to protect them during the winter.

Planting a one gallon tree in anywhere but the south or areas with mild winters is like signing it's death warrant ..between the cold with it's tiny root system and the critters it has a bleak future. better to give the $8 to charity.. All one gallons in nor4th should be kept containerized for one full season before planting ... out ..it may make it but you are rolling the dice. Also zones are a crap shoot ... you may think you are in 5a but if you are near the lake or in certain other areas of MI you likely aren't and are warmer The National arbor day foundation has I think the best most up to date zone map and zone finder although I read the government is soon to update their one from 1986 still in use what a joke!!! The one the ADF uses is from I believe 2006 and was scapped by the government because it differed so much from their totally out of date one but in my opinion it seems fairly right on to me...Davidsan

Thanks, I have a very large japanese pot that has been waiting for a job. have had the pot for several years and didn't know what to put in it.
Tree in pot, pot in unheated basement for the winter.

But remember pot size should not be too big .. I use to do that out of laziness so I wouldn't have to repot so often ... but it can cause the soil to stay too wet and Jms seem to like a tighter space... they grow much faster it seems if the pot is just inches bigger than a spread out root ball . I would say it is MUCH more work if you keep them potted since you have to move up more often but they seem to grow faster grow fuller and do better it seems to encourage root growth for some reason ... ones in too large of pots always surprise me with their puny root system i have never understood this phenomenon but it is a fact.

I have found in my 40 years plus of container growing the conditions that Davidsan talks about to be very accurate. The more oversized the pot is in ratio to the plant the better chance of the roots to rot out due to the fact that the root can not suck up the excess water fast enough. If the plants have a chance to dry out between watering the plant will become stronger and grow quicker.

So if you want to grow plants in containers then you must go the extra mile and up pot more rather then less. I have had plants in one container for several years and as long as 10 years before re-potting. It is up to the plant and it's general condition and my schedule of what I am going to do.

I will not discuss the soil that I use due to the fact that some people on the forum do not think the soil I use is of scientific value, whatever that means, but I will say that the soil I do use will drain quickly but retain moisture and that is very important especially in the colder northern climate.

Dave

This message was edited Sep 7, 2010 11:44 AM

Dave, when I plant in pots, as in putting the japanese maple in a pot for the rest of it's life, i use my own strange mixture, 1/3 sand, 1/4 compost, 1/3 potting mix, a good one and some styrofoan made for bean bag chairs. Keeps soil from getting water logged and makes the pot lighter easy to move. So far, a banana and a palm are 10 year old and loving it. Out doors for the summer and four-season room for the winter,. so needless to say the japanese maple got the same treatment.

Now that is a new one for me. I guess you will be joining me in wearing the tin foil hat for soil mixes. I guess your soil mix can be called the bean bag mixture.

If you run out of bean bag pellets you can always use pea gravel. That is the gravel that is used under pavers. This will give you the drainage and will also make the mixture heavier and will help stabilize the plant if there are strong winds.

Good luck to you.

Dave

pea gravel? never thought of that - i use a premix from coast of maine - http://www.coastofmaine.com/soils-cobscook.shtml

have has no problems with jm's in this - in fact the root growth is this is amazing - i am a lazy container water'r so the fact that it retains moisture is a plus for me - in a few larger containers there is a layer of crushed stone and some sand at the bottom.

General rule of thought and I do agree with this is that sand is of little use... as is perlite although neither can hurt ... sand is just well, sand, it doesn't help much in drainage and perlite and bean bag perlite is too light ... the one thing I don't like about the west coast mix among many other things is the use of Pumice... it IS ten times better than sand and perlite but it is also VERY light ... pea gravel or turkey grit is MUCH heavier and better .. it allows for great drainage and keeps the pots upright in windy areas which can be a big problem with perlite and pumice .. of course pumice is rarely available east of the west coast anyway and likley why they use it ... since it is cheap and widely avail out there. But if a person has luck with their mixture I say go with it ... but always remember Jms are not the same as other plants and whatr works for othew plants may not be the best for Jms and vise a versa same goes for orchids and other "different" plants and trees. there is no one mix from God for Jms just as there is no one mix from God that is good for all plants and trees Davidsan

I use the bean bag pellets to keep the weight of the pot less, I can't lift like I used to. Ane it helps withthe drainage.

Does anyone have an opinion on what would be the better time of year to re-pot a 5 gallon Crimson Queen into a larger pot? Now before it goes dormant or a month or two before Spring?

i would do it before spring

I have re-potted plants at any time of the year. If it is popped out of one pot and placed into another pot without much damage to the root, then I see no reason why you couldn't re-pot any time you like.

Dave

Ditto Dave it really doesn't matter so if you want to wait go for it .. I find repotting in early spring not pleasant since it is cold usually and doing so after they really start to push "can" set them back.. but as Dave says if done quickly thats ok ... but I like fall the best maybe because what else do you have to do other than rake those cuddy leaves .. Davidsan

Thanks for all of the input. One other question, since it is zone 5 here I was going to store this it in the garage over the winter. When should I put it in there? A month after leaf drop or when the temp gets in the 20's?

When it falls to the mid to low 20's. I leave mine out all winter some with no cover. The normal lows here are about 25 and up. Not unusual to fall into the teens.

Dave

Not advisable to leave out in Chicago area all winter it is rarely above 25 in Jan and feb ;>) Most potted trees will do alright outside in teens as in Daves area but once it gets into Chicago winter temps you will have root damage no matter how big the pot ... I learned from experience even short periods of single digits and zero to below zero weather can seriously damage the root system and you may not know til late spring .. they just won't leaf. Many Oregon growers were badly hurt last winter when early winter ( late Nov) temps dipped to single digits for a few days.. the tops looked fine but the root balls were dead or too seriously damaged to feed the tops ... usually they just leave 'em out all winter... and these were 10-25 gallon trees not twigs or young grafts... just don't forget to bring in before it gets too cold and in reality after it looses it leaves there is no reason to leave out unless you are in a more temperate area and plan to do so all winter. Some folks bury them and heavily insulate them ... why bother just bring 'em in ..Davidsan

Davidson? I am in southern NJ, the Williamstown area.Can I leave my maples out all winter in their pots in a protected area away from the winds, or should I try to get them in the ground this fall? I have
Akita yatsubusa and Tamukeyama still in pots.

I would ask Dave that question he knows that area much better than I .. I am always astounded how variable weather is in . NJ ...

Thanks I will do that.

A lot of variables. If it were me and my soil I would. I am about an hour or a little more north of you and mine stay outside or in polly houses. The big issue is to keep them out of the direct wind. That will get you more then the cold weather will. Now if you have cold weather and wind then the plant will be toast. A couple of years ago when the temps. went down below 0 for several days up to a week then the loses were staggering. By the time you realize what is going on it could be too late. So if you have the capabilities to keep them inside or protected by shelter, then it would not hurt do so.

Dave

Thanks for the information!

I saw a small green house in Lowes the other day. It says it is good for over wintering things. It was made of this plastic that was reinforced with what looked like thread inside. Would this be ok to keep them in out of the wind.

Sounds good to me

Dave

Thanks I will take a look at it again today.

A word of caution. If you use a house that has clear plastic then you will need to white wash the plastic to defuse the sunlight. I usually white wash around the end of January, this will keep the temperature 20 degrees lower in the day and the burning of plants to a minimum. You will also have to vent the house during the day. You do not want these plants coming out of dormancy sooner then need be.

Dave

With a very small house you can buy a piece of shade cloth cheap grommeted ones can just be put over the plastic and tie down... ... but Dave is correct you need to open up the doors every day without forgetting ... personally I think this is a bit of a waist for just a couple of plants. I have used portable greenhouses and they are ok and the one I had stood up we to 60 mph wind and he3avy snow but I doubt yours will ... but it was more for feb/march on like a cold frame ... I ran heat in via an extension cord and then fans and it still got way top hot on sunny days and I had a mildew problem when the trees leafed and they may ... early ... Maybe you will have a better experience but you likely will have spent money unwisely for something that you will get very little use out of.. That was the case with mine, that after the first year just sat in my garage and still does...Davidsan

How about using it to over winter my Tropicals? Do you think it will work for that, or is it still a waste of money? I have a 6ft tall Corn plant and a Palm, along with 19 other Tropicals to bring in.

With that many plants it may be worth it but the question is heat control ... I know little to nothing about tropiocals.. and don't known their cold requirements ..Also I think most of those small greenhouses would be a problem with six ft trees ..if they are typical peeked greenhouse only the middle will be high enough .. but what ever I don't think you want the top of your plants touching the plastic and regardless of heat those plants tops would likely freeze with a cold spell .There are definitly greenhouses you could buy and use but your talking big bucks they ain't cheap. For folks like you building them off your house is the most sensible but cost is high and finding a place that works with sun is sometimes impossible ... I am not big on those cheap lowes/home depot houses .. you won't spend too much but as I said previously it is likely not a panacia and likely a waist of $$ Davidsan

Those thin plastic covered ones can work for protecting things that are not quite hardy in your zone or for getting a head start on seed starting, but for tropicals you'd be much better off with one that has the rigid twinwall polycarbonate panels. Even with those you'll still need a heater but since they're better insulated you'll be able to keep the temperature high enough for the tropicals to be happy. Rion is a brand that's pretty popular and relatively affordable (for a greenhouse of that type).

That is definitely the way to go but it all comes down to $$ they ain't cheap I bought a 12x16 ft one 5 years ago and it was 5 grand just for the house ( least expensive one I could find with twin walls in that size and still had to be both built and some sort of footings and floor or base electricity and or gas or propane.. The Twin walls are much better but it is still hard to heat and costly... ( why building one off your house is better idea than stand alone ). Then you have to decide on venting I went with solar operated vents .. two are already crapped out .. A fan is a much better idea but again that adds $$ and energy usage . Another problem with many of these is that if you even want to use it during the summer it is way too hot even with fans and shade cloth is very hard to work with it especially if you have top vents. So you are paying $$$ for something you use 4-5 months out of the year.yatayatayata ... Davidsan

Well you sure have killed my idea...lol But you are right the cost of it is more then the plants are worth. I could buy them all again and again at the cost of a good green house.
Thanks for all the input. I have learned a lot about green house's not attached to the house like my moms was. Maybe one day I can do that to my patio out front. It wont get a lot of sun but maybe enough to keep them growing and alive. So for now it will be in the house again.

Good choice .. I do like attached GH's .. they can be used as sun rooms and help heat your house in winter and your house can help heat them also.. Cost is the thing and how much you will use it ... I would bet most folks that buy GH's don't use them much or for long after purchase especially in northern areas.. I think they make more sense in more moderate areas and the south. You definitely get what you pay for with most Gh's and any that are worth it aren't cheap .. It does help if you or, if applicable, your husband , partner or whatever is "construction worthy" and can build it yourself... That probably takes 3-4 grand off your total price or more if you get into wiring heat etc. Most Gh companies stress self building ( so they can sell them easier) ... but I can tell you it is best if you have some construction or handy man knowledge, and must be willing to put in allot of sweat equity to build a descent quality one. Davidsan

my wife asked me if i wanted a GH - had a great spot for one too - decided against it and built a brick patio and planted 6 jm's around it and then added six dwaft jm's in pots for the patio - much better use of the space!!

Sunrooms are the way to go if you can afford it. We got ours about 10 years ago and I have loved it every minute during the spring, fall and winter. In the summer it is too hot to spend time there. In the fall I just fill it with plants--there is hardly room for the people. It has made it possible for me to keep lots of things I couldn't otherwise. A minimum temperature of 50 degrees is maintained by a heater. On sunny days, it gets much better than that. ON cloudy days, I don't go out there (to save heat, we don't turn it up for our own comfort, we just stay out of there except when it is sunny enough). Maine winters are long and it helps a lot when it starts to get to you....

That sounds nice Granitegneiss. Mine( if I ever get it built) would be cool too, due to its on the north side of the south.

Yes my statement concerning use and other negatives concern non attached Gh's ones that are like sunrooms can definitely be worth it .. Sorry if that was unclear..

for all of you wanting to protect your trees in a small green house, Powell and Powell, make a PVP green house, several different sizes, coveres with plastic. i have had mine for about 12 years, go to their site.
www.thelittlegreenhouse.com, it is made of pvc pipe, which you can find in any home store.
In the spring my seeds go in it to get started. BUT, in the winter it covers our spa, keeps the air warm while we are in the spa and keeps the snow off of the spa.
another bonus, the heat of the spa keeps tender plants over the winter, and no it doesn't get to warm in the greenhouse, keeps the air just about freezing.

I've got a small Crimson Queen that I bought 3 years ago in a 1 gallon pot. It's been in a 15 inch pot since I repotted it. It hasn't grown much over the time I've had it and this year it hasn't gotten any leaves yet. I was told by the nursery to use Azalea mix (which I did). It's on the east side of the house with extra shade cover from a huge rubber tree (also potted). Should I be worried that it hasn't sprouted leaves yet?