Giving up on a Cottage Garden

DeLand/Deleon Spring, FL(Zone 8b)

I've just about given up on the "Cottage Garden' idea here...we've got 11 acres, with about 3 1/2 being "yard". We planted an area about 12x20 near our entrance gate, Blanket flower, Coreopsis, and Coneflowers as the anchor plants, then the "plan" was to free sow annual's like Zinnia's and Cosmos, a few other odds and ends of mixed seeds, with the thought they would reseed. Well, this is the second year, and again, the grass and weeds just end up crowing everything out instead of the other way around. I have not mulched that area,( in hopes that plants could reseed themselves) which for most of the others we use weed cloth or very heavy mulch. Before I end up tearing the whole thing out ( there are at least 20 Blanket flower/coreopsis plants in there) any suggestions. I'm just over trying to keep that disaster weeded. I see pics of the cottage garden's and think they are so pretty and supposed to be easily maintained.........but I don't think so in Florida !
here's a pic before the weeds/grass got out of control from last year. I didn't even bother with a pic this year.
Thanks
mj

Thumbnail by mjsponies
(Debra) Garland, TX

Wish I had something constructive to add. Have a similar problem here if not mulched and watched with an eagle eye for the nasty little sprouts. They still get by me anyway. The photo is wonderful. Love the Echinaceas and Blankets. Hope someone here can offer ideas...

DeLand/Deleon Spring, FL(Zone 8b)

Thanks Debra,
It would be nice if someone came up with the magic bullet for this, before I take the mower to it. ...sigh...........

Silver Spring, MD(Zone 6b)

What if after you weeded, you sprinkled a product called Preem.? Mulching helps to keep down the weeds and helps to keep moisture in, so I urge you to put down mulch. I think right now with last month of summer, you're going to find that a lot of gardeners are feeling the same as you. Have you all had a lot of rainfall recently? Seems like the weeds grow while flowers seem to remain in dormant stage. I was gone for 5 1/2 days and came back and I couldn't believe the growth that had taken place in that short time. So you know what I'm going to be doing tomrorrow..I watered the front flowerbeds late this afternoon but will do the back ones tomorrow. I'll be up and working in my flowerbeds early tomorrow morning. It was 96 here today and supposed to be another 100 degree day tomorrow.

DeLand/Deleon Spring, FL(Zone 8b)

Pippi, well the idea for this was to allow the area to self seed and fill in. I've heard of Preem, but don't know if it would not only kill weeds but also prevent seeds that had dropped from growing. Mulching heavily enough to keep the weeds down would prevent much in the way of self sowing.
Know what ya mean about the temps ! It's been hot here..............I grew up in Annapolis and still have family in Md.

Southeastern, NH(Zone 5b)

I beleive it is called Preen, how Preen works is it prevents germination. So I know the first thing you are going to think, is how will I get self sowing? So this is a thought... It says on the package how long it works, off the top of my head I think it says 3 months. Now I am not sure how your growing season goes, but for me the good self sowing annuals have germinated way before the majority of weeds in spring So I think if I wait until early summer and sprinkle down the Preen it will prevent all the bad weeds from germinating throughout the summer. By the time next spring comes the Preen that was sprinkled will no longer be working and any self sowing annuals will still germinate. I am not sure about any one else but my Zinnias never seem to self seed. I think I had one plant that had self seeded once out of every year I've planted them. I don't have any where near as long a growing season as you so I'm sure this isn't an issue for you. Also you may have to watch your garden and figure out when the annuals you want to self seed germinate and adjust accordingly because in zone 9 I'm sure you have year round germination of weeds. So you would just need to stop use of Preen about 4 months before your big germination season.

Southeastern, NH(Zone 5b)

I also wanted to add, that any tie I start a new garden the first growing season after the area is prepared is always the worst for weeds germinating. This is because you've recently disturbed the soil and made a perfect bed for them to germinate. You've also brought seeds that may have been buried to deep in the soil to germinate up to the perfect depth for germination. Every information I've found about starting a new garden strongly recommends preparing the bed ahead of time. Now I never follow this practice personally, but I am also prepared to hand weed the new bed because I know they will appear because I short cutted the preparation. I had found an interesting article on starting a wildflower meadow which I feel applies to what you are trying to do. So I thought I'd paste some of the info about preparation here. I know you may not want it to be so involved but at least you'll understand why you are having so many weeds before you make your final decisions..

Here are some additional tips about soil preparation, planting and care to help ensure your success:

When to sow. Wildflower seed can be planted in either spring or fall. In colder climates, fall-seeded wildflowers will usually remain dormant until the following spring; in warmer areas, plants will germinate and start getting established before winter.
Selecting the planting site. When thinking about where to locate your wildflower meadow, consider starting with a section of your lawn that has been difficult to mow or that seems poorly suited to grass. Another option is to convert an overgrown flower bed. A sunny site is usually best. Most wildflower meadow seed mixes contain sun-loving varieties that require five to eight hours of direct light each day. Well drained soil is preferred, but if you have a problem site with overly wet or extremely dry soil, you just need to select seed varieties that are particularly suited to those conditions.
Preparing the ground. This is probably the most important step in the process. Wildflower seeds need to be sown on well-prepared soil that—as much as possible—is free of weeds. Mow existing vegetation as close to the ground as possible. Remove any woody plants. Strip off any sod, or rototill the area and then rake out the clods of grass. You can also consider applying an herbicide, such as Roundup. Once the grass and weeds are gone, till the area to a shallow depth of 1-2 inches.
Eliminating annual weeds. Do not plant wildflower seeds immediately after preparing the soil. Tilling the soil usually brings weed seeds to the surface, where they will germinate. Wait two weeks or so after tilling, then go over the ground again with the tiller or a hoe, to expose the roots of newly sprouted weeds. A second application of Roundup or a similar herbicide is also an option at this point.
Sowing the seed. Before seeding, mix the seed in a pail with fine-grade builder's sand, which will help ensure even coverage. Use four parts sand to one part seed. Broadcast one-half of the seed/sand mix using a handheld broadcast seeder, or by hand, using an even, sweeping motion. Then walk across the seedbed at right angles to the path you took before, sowing the other half of the seed. Sow seed rather thickly; this will help the wildflowers out-compete weeds and grasses.
Firm in the seed. Seed that is buried too deeply will not germinate. Instead, simply walk across the seedbed, tamping it down with your foot. You can also use the head of a garden rake to ensure good contact between the seeds and the ground. Another option is to rent a lawn roller, a large cylinder that you fill with water and then push over the seedbed to firm it down.
Water and, if needed, fertilize. Seeds require moisture to germinate. You should water for an hour or so every few days until the plants are about 1 to 2 inches tall. After that point, water only if plants look wilted or stressed. Wildflowers normally grow well in average soil and don't require fertilizer. If your soil is nutrient-poor, however, spread an all-purpose, organic fertilizer at the same time you plant seeds.
Control weeds. If your wildflowers germinate well and grow thickly, they should choke out most weeds. When weeds do spring up in the midst of the wildflowers, pull them by hand before they have a chance to flower and disperse their seeds.
Mow annually. A few weeks after the flowers have faded in your meadow planting, you can do a high mowing of the field (set the mower to 4 to 6 inches above the ground). This helps control unwanted weeds and grasses, and also helps disperse the mature seeds of your wildflowers.

DeLand/Deleon Spring, FL(Zone 8b)

Meredith79,
Thanks for your input. You gave a few suggestions that would help, and we did do alot of what you suggested. I'm pretty convinced that part of the problem is our long growing season. We often have to mow twice a week ( granted we mow "high" I can't stand the scalped burnt grass look) anyway, we've decided that we're going to redo the bed with weed cloth/mulched paths and I will just add plants I've grown from seed. Adding more Blanket flower's and perennial's.

Southeastern, NH(Zone 5b)

I'm glad you aren'y giving up! Your garden looks beautiful in the picture! :)

Pineville, WV

This may be a bit off the subject, but we are having the same problem with a very large slope behind our house. It was so steep it was falling in, so we had it re-excavated. The fellow that done the job for us suggested sowing crown vetch on it to choke out the weeds. After doing so I believe they are worse! Now we have a huge slope with weeds sprouting everywhere between the crown vetch, it looks terrible! I had thought about the preen, but this slope is probably 100' long by 25' high, so I really don't know where to start. I had thought about sowing flower seeds next spring to see if they would help to choke out the weeds, I actually bought some four o'clock seeds, but I was afraid to sow them (afraid of making a bigger mess). I have seen large cans of flower seeds to just sprinkle on the ground. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Rosamond, CA(Zone 8b)

Guys, none of you could possibly have it worse than I do with living in a desert, everything goes to seed and it is all invasive and impossible to kill a lot of it, without a lot of time and investment at first. I found out that it is easier to start out on large property if you scale down the project size and pick one area to start ridding weeds in for the next year, and start maybe a second area, like a lasagna garden that can break down during the winter rains to plant next spring or fall, but don't overwhelm yourself. Work one, plan one.

Next, start collecting all your seed heads and label them so you can plant them yourself at the right time. But PUT PRE-EMERGENT ON NOW. I NEED TO DO THIS TOO, or it is too late and some of the weeds start to germinate now in this area. Then do it again in November, which should take you into February with most weed seeds killed and the winter rains will water them in. Put your sprinkler on when you do it or a hose attachment that will water the pre-emergent in now.

Next when February comes or what ever season you can start to see weeds popping up, then get the strong round up or similar product and take a Q-tip or paint sponge that is small, dip it in RU, straight, not diluted, and paint the weeds as you see them pop up. Any survivors should die. Stubborn ones may have to be done a couple of times, but it works. (It is a pain but you are only worrying about one area you will plant in this year and the areas just around it. Then when you can plant, sow your saved seeds. As they come up, you can put some weed cloth or better yet. Rolled roofing paper, tear it into pieces and put it between pockets of plants, so the next year the weeds won't grow where the paper is and the pockets should reseed themselves with few weeds. You can use news paper too, to block out and retain moisture. Then in the late summer or fall, you can start your next garden area for the next year, the first one should be good and the second one ready to plant. Keep doing the above process to areas surrounding your garden areas to keep the weeds from infiltrating your gardens. Freecycle can get you some free roof paper or weed cloth too if you keep posting for it. So you can block out as much of the areas you don't want to plant in yet, until you are ready to plant. Keep working on a spot at a time and plan where the next spot will be, a year in advance.

Rosamond, CA(Zone 8b)

By the way, start ground covering plants of various sizes too, so the more spreading things you have that are evergreen, the less weeds will be able to seed there too.

Leesburg, FL(Zone 9b)

>>I was gone for 5 1/2 days and came back and I couldn't believe the growth that had taken place in that short time.

I hear ya!! I was gone for 6 weeks and the grasses and weeds were as high as 4-5+ feet tall... the rag weed was the worst at about 6 feet.

I'm pulling like a mad women ... i'm currently waiting for the sun to go down a bit before i head back out.

mjs -- my beds look similar... i just do my best to pull weeds and grasses when i see them. I'm diligent in the spring... it does get easier. I've been working on these beds, slowly adding to them over the past 7 yrs.

I have found for some wild flowers, direct sowing works well. I winter sow many plants, then I mark where i plant them so I dont accidentally pull them thinking they are weeds. I have found Zinnias , for me, do better when sown opposed to direct sowing.

Rosamond, CA(Zone 8b)

I had bad luck with direct sowing zinnias this year. What does rag weed look like? We have it all over the desert I hear and I don't know what it looks like but I have some nutty obnoxious 8 feet tall weeds that I toppled down thinking they were some wildflower. Either I pull them and they are flowers or I am afraid to pull them and the weed tower of Pizza takes over my yard.

DeLand/Deleon Spring, FL(Zone 8b)

Well, we finally made the decision to pull everything that was not Coneflowers, Coreopsis, Cassi's or Crepe Myrtle....the 4 C's. We had Poppies, Salvia's and lord know's what wild flowers in that bed, but they all get taken over by the "Evil" grass. I'm going to mulch pathway's with weed cloth underneath, and down here "Alysisia grass" grows' right up thru the weed cloth ! and go from there, but I'm not doing the throw the mixed seed packets out again and see what come's up as it' 99.999999999999 % weeds, grass that comes up in between. I have too much property, too many other commitments, to have that mess right at my entrance. So be it.............
I Tried.............

Rosamond, CA(Zone 8b)

One last idea. Someone here in the desert told me that they had 40 acres of desert and they loved to garden, so they used thick straw bales and laid them down between plants and on paths and no weeds grew there. I am going to try it. The areas where I lost the battle, are overrun and I have to pull a burn permit now. Too much to control and I need a fix for that side that is not costly.

Leesburg, FL(Zone 9b)

the ragweeds i pulled were at least 5-6' tall. when they are small, I can't tell the difference between them and marigolds... but if you rub the leaves and smell them -- you'll know it's not a marigold.

here's a link to google images...
http://www.google.com/images?q=ragweed+plants&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&ei=LX10TJCfCdTonQePociSBw&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CDcQsAQwAw&biw=1152&bih=531

hope that works... if not, go to google images

thankfully they pull out easily.

mjs -- sorry to hear you gave up on your cottage garden. But i have to tell ya... i too have thought about yanking it all. I've started pulling the plants that are taking over... and honestly, as they yrs progress, there are less weeds.... like Meredith stated.

Delray Beach, FL(Zone 10b)

I had lots of weeds creeping around my hostas. It was too difficult to weed it all, so I took newspapers and put several layers over the weedy areas. I didn't like how that looked, so I put cut brown paper bags on top of the newspapers. I didn't want to buy lots of mulch. As I plant new things, I poke holes in the layers of paper. It is a free way to cut down on weeds. I don't like to use unnecessary chemicals.

I am also trying to master the art of cottage gardening. In my back garden under the black walnut trees, I have hostas, orange ditch lilies, tiger lilies and some green ground covers. In the front, I am growing pastel roses with perrenials and bulbs. It looks more chaotic than cottage, but I am a new gardener. I am getting better at moving plants without killing them.

Rosamond, CA(Zone 8b)

lol It all comes out looking chaotic for a while unless your lucky, but eventually you figure it out or start over.

Leesburg, FL(Zone 9b)

I have one bed that I may do a "high mow" to, or whatever the highest setting is on my lawn mower. The Yarrow is out of control, and many many BES and Coreopsis. I think i need to divide too. OH i also have tons of "Chocolate Mint" -- wow does that stuff grow every where.

Rosamond, CA(Zone 8b)

lol Someone sent me some and it went mad, but so far it has not overtaken anything. It is competing with the Lamb's ear for that.

Leesburg, FL(Zone 9b)

My neighbor keeps wanting to give me Lamb's Ear... I keep saying NO, i can just look at it in her yard, as it goes wild.

I pulled a lot of the "mint" ... can't see if leaving any time soon. At first i thought it would be a 'ground creeper' -- but it does 'stand up' about a good 6" or so.
I'm not finding it invasive, as to the point of choking out other plants ... so i'll just keep pulling it where i dont want it.

I wish my mint and lambs ear would spread and take over !! i am fighting nightshade. it comes up everywhere and just wont go away. must say i do love the smell when i am watering and it hits the mints !
karen

i mean when the water hits the mints.

This message was edited Sep 26, 2010 9:42 AM

Southeastern, NH(Zone 5b)

I have a friend that keeps offering me Lamb's Ears too! I keep saying no, thank goodness for DG or I wouldn't have known better and taken it. :)

Rosamond, CA(Zone 8b)

I have a spot I will move it too, because it is nice in the right spot. The spot where it is going mad is too hot and dry for it too perform well in appearance. Looks like it is dry on the tips. I like it though. It needs a new location where I can grow little and in the shade, then maybe it can fight vinca major which will win, I fear. My only crazy plants are those, the mint, the Virginia Creeper and a couple of poorly placed shrubs. My fault. I need more nutty invasives that have low water needs.

Everett, WA(Zone 8a)

This may be a useless thoguht, but maybe next time you re-do a large area, till it 2-3 times, separated by 3-5 days, with some watering. try to get as many weed seeds as possible to srpout, and then kill them.

Then also apply an emergent-killer, and/or heavy mulch.

And/or cover with heavy plastic or cardboard, to deny remaining weeds any light.

Then, when you plant, sow heavily and fertilize generously. Hope you give YOUR seeds a head start.
Plant soemthing that self-seeds very aggresively, collect pounds of that seed, and use it for the next area you try to rescue. Seed very heavily even if your plants compete wit each other, they will also compete with the weeds.

Too expensive and labor-intensive?

Corey

Rosamond, CA(Zone 8b)

Food for thought. I think I would like to try it in a small area first.

Greensboro, NC(Zone 7a)

May be a dumb suggestion but interesting for a garden experiment--check out the Gardening by the Moon forum--I highlight and print out the monthly "garden chore" list that one of the members posts there from another site.

It recommends planting, weeding, and tells when barren (don't plant stuff) dates are during that month. Try weeding a patch when it recommends and go weed another spot on a day it doesn't recommend and see which stays in shape better. Some have sworn by it. Haven't tried it yet as I had a bad get out and garden season last year so I'll be working my hiney off cleaning up the mess of overgrown, dead and waterlogged stuff in my little apt. garden but it sounds pretty interesting.

silver spring, MD(Zone 7a)

Rather than Preen have you thought of using corn gluten. Its totally organic and lasts for about 6 wks. You just sprinkle it on and it won't hurt anything and isn't poisonous to animals or kids.

Rosamond, CA(Zone 8b)

I never heard of that. Is this for killing weeds or pre-emergant for seeds? What name do they sell it under at the nursery or do you get it at the feed store?

Leesburg, FL(Zone 9b)

I googled it, and a bunch of links came up... here is one
http://eartheasy.com/article_corn_gluten.htm

Cleveland,GA/Atlanta, GA(Zone 7b)

This is an interesting thread that I can relate to. We have seventeen acres and tried for years to cottage garden our property like we did when we had 1/4 acre in the city. What we learned from the experience is that if we were fortunate enough to own land we should take a small space for our pleasure and be good stewards of the rest. We now cottage garden at the entrance and around our immediate house. Beyond the perennial mayhem we have a dedicated kitchen garden with four seasons of vegetables adjoining what would be a "cottage style" yard. Then an herb on a slope and fruit gardens below including apples, figs, pears, blackberries and blueberries beyond the more manageable points. We rebuild and retie our garden fences annually using sisal and sticks remaining from our harvested fire wood. The remaining property provides wood for heat and is part of a native species conservancy effort. When we were younger we had every nook and cranny of our property planned out but now we see that we are not the planners...just gardeners.

Leesburg, FL(Zone 9b)

Maypop -- your property sounds wonderful. that is something i'd love to have.

I just have to move out of suburbia.

Brewster, MN(Zone 4b)

Might I add a couple of things here? Corn gluten meal can be found at several of the feed stores in my area. Check them out before you pay shipping fees and it's way cheaper then buying from the catalogs. If they don't have it on hand, many will order it in for you.
Ortho makes Grass-be-gone. Works great on grasses in the garden and won't hurt your flower plants. You need to start at the first sign of grass invading, works best when grass is young and takes several days to see results, but it's great. Especially in iris and peonies.

Rosamond, CA(Zone 8b)

What is the gluten for, to kill weed seeds or to kill plants?

Brewster, MN(Zone 4b)

Gluten inhibits the germination of seeds. Any seeds, weed of not. While I haven't used it myself I understand that the timing of your applications is important. I checked out the price of gluten meal on the above link, omg! Check out the feeds stores, waaay cheaper.

Leesburg, FL(Zone 9b)

I'll have to see if Farm & Fleet carries it.

in suburbia, we do not have "feed stores"

Sierra Foothills, CA(Zone 8a)

Well, if you were to want to sow some seed it might not be good to use that for the "weed-seeds" as I understand it. Will it just kill grass seeds or any seeds?

Leesburg, FL(Zone 9b)

for me.. when things start popping up, i pretty much kow which ones are weeds and which ones are not [though i have been known to pull the perennial or two or three] but it's the grass and weeds. I've never used a weed killer, germination inhibitor back there at all, yet.

that Corn looks neat though.

Rosamond, CA(Zone 8b)

Interesting idea but if timing is an issue, I guess that it would be too late here since we had so much rain in a few weeks a month ago that they all popped up.

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