Dead Zone?

Ok need to pick your collective brains! I have a location at the front of my woodland bed that nothing wants to grow in. There are no trees in that area and it isn't like cars are parked or drive through there or anything. Yet none of the plants in there have migrated forward though they've gone all over everywhere else. I didn't think much of it till I planted a sensitive fern there and it shriveled up like something had been sprayed on it, first thought was an animal peed on it...but then, I planted a large pink astillbe at the other end but still in the front and the other day I went out and sure enough it looked like the fern had. I watered them both regularly after planting so I know it wasn't that.

So any thoughts? Could the soil there just be that bad that nothing wants to grow in it?

ldy_gardenermd,

Check the soil aka get a soil tester from walmart and see what is going on with the soil.

check several spots that should give you a good idea.

Sarge

Are there any black walnut trees within 80 feet?

I wonder too if there couldn't be something in the soil that's killing them, but I'm assuming it's more or less the same soil as the rest of your yard. I'd be thinking more along some kind of pest or virus or fungus in the soil.

Could you be watering them too much? SO's mother has the gummiest clay soil you've ever seen and killed a very nice dogwood by not making sure the last watering had drained before watering again. The poor thing had its roots sitting in water for months.

no black walnuts on my property at all, a few hickory's but they are way back on the property. I haven't watered them anymore than any other plants out there so I don't think it's that. It funny though because like I said even the stuff already planted in that area isn't really moving 'forward' to the edge of that bed. freaky!

I can test the soil in that area but could it be that 'off' in just a stretch like that?

ldy_gardenermd,

is there grass, weeds, or any thing growing there?

If not there "Might" be an acid, lye, or chemical Spilled on the soil some time back.

I would test it your self or have it tested .

Sarge


This message was edited Jun 20, 2010 9:18 PM

Yep, if nothing grows there I'd suspect a spill or dump site for something long lived in the soil. Ric

For now, maybe it can be a spot for a container garden or a nursery for potted tree/shrub seedlings...

Idy, I have stretches of better soil in my yard, so I don't know why you couldn't have a bad patch. I'd suspect somelike like grubs or nematodes or some kind of disease since they're all doing so badly.

I don't think a ph problem or even a fertility problem would cause them to shrivel up that fast. Maybe a watering problem - either not draining or draining so fast nothing is getting enough water.

It could be something had been dumped there but in that case, I wouldn't think anything would grow there at all.

Maybe a large rock underneath? How close is the nearest tree trunk? Shrubs?
I have a area that is dry but I attribute it to tree and shrub roots combined. A sedum should be able to live no matter what the moisture so if you can stick one of those there and it shrivels, that gets more suspicious.
Could be as diverse as salt- my hubby dropped a big pile of water softener salt in the yard recently. How long have you lived there?

You know, I assumed there are trees nearby since those are shade plants. There is shade there, right? If it's sunny, that could be what's harming the plants.

We've been here 12 years. Prior to that his parents lived here and that area was where all the fall leaves were dumped there is this rich dark brown almost black soil that everything does really well in. There are trees in that area but there are tons of plants growing under them so I don't think it's the trees.

I'll dig a hole and do a water test though, it could very well be that it drains too fast in that particular area.

Thanks all!

Very weird!
I have spots that I think are shade but get hot late day sun in weather like this.

Sounds like and alkaline issue or chemical imbalance issue a ( Ph test could solve this pretty easy .)

I understand what you are saying about the ph but it doesn't make sense that it would be in a section that is about 2' x 3' if even that. That the entire rest of the area is fine, but that one section isn't?? Plus if that is what's wrong, why? What would cause that one spot in all of my gardens to have an issue? I'm not one for putting a bandaid or a quick fix on something so if that were the case I'd want to know what was causing it. KWIM?

2x3 feet? that really is odd. somehow I thought you were talking about a larger area. It does sound like maybe something got dumped out there at one time, especially if not even weeds are growing. What a mystery! If something like leftover concrete stain or any other strong acid or base was ever dumped out there, I wonder if that would alter the pH dramatically in just one little spot.

ldy_gardenermd,


being a leaf dump site and used for that my grand parents did this as well as kids we were also instructed to throw other waste in the pile also .

a "fix" could be diging that area up once the size is figured out and removing the Contaminated soil and replacing it with fresh soil .

Sarge

For an area that small, it doesn't make sense that it would be any of the things we're suggesting. Except maybe sun, especially for new plants that may have been kept in the shade before they were bought. Or a large rock being under it, like Critter said, but I'd think the surrounding soil would keep an area that small at pretty close to the moisture level of the rest of the bed. Same if there was any kind of toxic material there. I'd think it would leach into the other adjacent areas of the bed.

I'd be tempted to plant something that's more sun and/or drought tolerant there just to see how it does.

You can get your local extension office to test your soil for a very small fee. You can get the kits at their local office or call and they'll mail you some. They'll test for ph and any fertility issues. I don't think they test for diseases, insects or any kind of toxic material.

Or you can call. They have a toll free number where you can talk to an expert at your state office or send an email.
http://www.hgic.umd.edu/

Ah, here's the soil test info. It's $5 and does just test for ph and basic fertility. You'd probably be just as well off to get a soil testing kit for a few bucks and do it yourself.
http://www.agnr.umd.edu/pgcounty/Soiltest.html

Believe me, with my alkaline soil I've seen what ph problems can do to plants and it doesn't make them wither and die that fast.

I wonder if it could be something with the source of the plants? A disease or insect problem or just the fact that they're greenhouse plants. Do you harden them off before planting?

trust me lol, nothing but leaves have ever been dumped up there, my in laws were as meticulous as I am about this piece of property and while she might not have been the same kind of gardener I am, she never would have dumped trash in her front yard.

don't think it's the plants as they came from two different places. one from a local nursery that grows all their own stock and the other the AHS plant sale.

I wasn't the one to say "rock," but that could well be the case... My brother couldn't grow grass in a 10 inch strip next to his driveway, just kept turning sprouting and then dying, and he finally dug up all along there and removed the extra chunky fill (big gravel) that was just under the soil surface, replacing it with topsoil, and the grass did just fine after that.

Maybe you'll dig up a nice rock that you can put to good use in your landscaping!

Hmm, but if you've planted several things there, you've probably dug down deep enough to know there's not some big rock just under the surface...

I like Sarge's idea of digging out a larger hole and putting known good soil there to see what happens. That will directly test the bad soil theory in short term. But knowing the history, the bad soil theory just is unlikely. Maybe you have a natural gas spring leaking up!!! Free power!!!!!
~~~Up from the ground come a bubblin crude~~~oil that is, black gold, Texas tea..~~~~~

roflmbo Sally you're killing me!

I don't think there is anything special down in there buy hey I'd rather it be gold or something lol!

I'm going to do a water test and a sedum test and see what happens. I'll let you know!

Has this problem patch just started this year or been going on for awhile?

Is this area mulched? If so, with what? I ask because the mulch could easily have been contaminated without your knowledge before you used it.

Also, if any of the snow our area received was plowed off the roads and then melted in that area it too could have contaminated that spot.

Alianthus trees also put out a poisen deterent to the growth of other plants, even a seedling.

I don't know your exact conditions but I'd be tempted to be real systematic with a planting of, say, impatiens , within the area and with in a foot of its borders. I'd use larger ones it I could so I could readily use their wilting when they need water without dying first to scope out the water situation there. Great "indicater" plant.

Just some random thoughts. I don't grow astillbi or snesitive fern because they do just what yours did...fine one day, crisp the next...but very likely for different reasons!

Oh, yes, what does grow near there but hasn't as you said, advanced? Don't remember the name of the book, but it had a chapter on indicater plants growing in various sites that gave clues to the soil type and condition in an area. Might have been "Right Plant, Right Place."

Good luck solving this mystery.

Judy

Has this problem patch just started this year or been going on for awhile? Just really noticed this year.

Is this area mulched? Yes the entire area is mulched with hardwood mulch.

Also, if any of the snow our area received was plowed off the roads and then melted in that area it too could have contaminated that spot. I live off a gravel road the only snow that was pushed there was done by my dh with our tractor and we don't use salt or anything on the gravel.

Alianthus trees also put out a poisen deterent to the growth of other plants, even a seedling. I hate those trees lol, so none of them. Trees in the area are beech, poplar and oak but as I said all other plants growing in area are fine.

I don't know your exact conditions but I'd be tempted to be real systematic with a planting of, say, impatiens , within the area and with in a foot of its borders. I'd use larger ones it I could so I could readily use their wilting when they need water without dying first to scope out the water situation there. Great "indicator" plant.

Just some random thoughts. I don't grow astillbe or sensitive fern because they do just what yours did...fine one day, crisp the next...but very likely for different reasons!

Oh, yes, what does grow near there but hasn't as you said, advanced? Arch Angel lanium, trilliums, hosta, jack in the pulpit, maypops and woodland poppy.

Or you could take some of the suspect soil and pot a plant with it. That oughta prove something. If it doesn't die right away in the pot, then I ithink it proves the soil chemistry is OK but some other factor is the problem.

Archangel lamiastrum is very aggressive; I only have it in partial shade though, all around a dogwood

They're all plants that need quite a bit of shade. I'd still wonder if they aren't getting too much sun, even if it's just light shade vs dark shade, especially since it's in the front. Only other thing I can think of is perhaps there's a bit of a slope there and all the water is draining away from that area so they're drying out.

That's a good idea with the pot, Sally. Saves digging up the whole area until you know for sure it's something in the soil.