I was reading The Vegetable Gardener's Bible and I have never heard of pruning a tomato. Mine have always been big, ugly, sprawling things, and the idea that I can get more tomatoes and a cleaner, more compact plant sounds like a good plan! Here's the problem, I don't know which are the suckers. In the book it says they come "from the leave crotch" whatever that means. Help a tomato dimwit out, will you? I've got 240 planted in the ground and another 10 in pots!
This illustration may help clear things up for ya.
Okay, I think I understand. So which is better, Missouri or Simple pruning? How does each affect the plant?
For another opinion, take a look at Dr. Carolyn Male's advice on pruning from her book, Pg 22:
http://books.google.com/books?id=y4y_Fz2QLkIC&pg=PA22&lpg=PA22&dq=tomato+pruning,+carolyn+male&source=bl&ots=fjx9Mckb_i&sig=SOqE1GYafFg1o7YpjlDLRDMOiR0&hl=en&ei=baDwS6yuIsO78ga2i-X9Cg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CBYQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false
This book is a "must have" for any tomato grower, IMHO.
This message was edited May 16, 2010 8:51 PM
Here's the whole article, Mevnmart:
http://www.finegardening.com/how-to/articles/pruning-tomatoes.aspx
If you grow your tomatoes in cages or have few enough plants or enough space to let them sprawl on the ground, you don't need to prune. I stake mine so I prune, mostly the simple pruning as that article demonstrates rather than the Missouri.
Very interesting articles. I am staking all of mine (we couldn't afford 240 cages!) and they are about 2 feet apart on all sides. I definitely don't want my plants to sprawl, and though I understand, and probably agree with the idea of reducing the fruit to achieve better tomatoes (vs. removing leaves), it's a market garden, and the quantity is almost as important as the quality. Maybe I'll do a test run and prune some and leave some and see what happens. I can always adjust next year after seeing the results.
I have a patio cherry in a pot on my porch and the bottom leaves are very close to the dirt. I imagine I should cut those? Also, in the Male's book, it says that you can asexually propagate a tomato plant. I had no idea! What is the process there? Cut and put it in water?
Mevnmart, the article I linked to recommends cutting off all branches below the first blossoms. That way you don't have any leaves close to the dirt and it avoids splashes from rain or irrigation.
To make cuttings, I take a sucker that I've just removed and put it in a pot with potting soil. The pot goes in a container that will hold water, and I keep its feet nice and wet. Very shortly the sucker begins to grow, and then you know you've got a new plant.
I never read Carlon Male's book but I couldn't agree more about pruning. Most plant growth comes from sunlight, water and CO2. They need foliage in order to accomplish this. Removing leaves will greatly limit how much the plants can produce their own food. Reduced leaf to fruit ratio also decreases the sugar content in the tomatoes.
I do agree with less fruit clusters for larger fruit. However, this seems to work better for determinates than indeterminates and for those in short growing areas.
Last year I left a group of volunteer tomatoes do their own "thing" - another group I removed all the lower leaves and the suckers.
The ones left to their own devices produced more fruit than the others.
This year I'm leaving the suckers and only removing leaves that discolor.
I will probably cut-off their heads when we get closer to winter temps.
This is so fascinating. I am loving all I'm learning about growing (especially tomatoes - my main love!). I have very few determinates, most are indeterminate, and all but a few are heirlooms. Do you think that if I only keep the leaves off the ground and don't prune otherwise, that keeping the main stem staked will be sufficient for keeping them "contained" in their 2X2 sq. ft. space? I just need to be able to keep the area weeded (minimal since I have it heavily mulched) and be able to pick the fruit. I really appreciate all of your help! :)
All those cute little suckers will become just as big as your main stem. I'd recommend removing at least some of them. You will have to tie them up as well which takes a lot of extra effort but it does work. You can also let a sucker set the first cluster and grow another set of leaves before cutting the tip.
Yep, pruning was too much work for no apparent benefit. I still do it for the low-to-the-ground suckers for the few plants in the greenhouse to insure good circulation and get rid of plant litter - this to try to forestall disease and fungus.
That's funny; for me it's easier if I prune because I have fewer stalks to manage and to tie up.
I agree Greenhouse_gal I trellis my tomatoes and I also plant mine with in a 2' area for each tomato. Tying off multiple shoots is way to much work. Plus If you want a bushy low to the ground plant buy a verity that is meant to be just that. Plus leaves are good but to many take away from the quality of the fruit because the plant will need to then put its energy in to sustaining the foliage and not into producing what you really want. In my case I want large fruit not a ton of little ones! I have cherry tomatoes for that. As for pruning below the first set of flowers It works the best for me. The energy is then put right into your first tomatoes and it also helps the plant for other above stated reasons.
This message was edited May 18, 2010 4:21 PM
mevnmart: that's a lot of tomato stakes you have there!
You may want to consider a trellis. It works well for me.
Concrete wire works good, but I love cattle panels a lot better. The cattle panels don't rust and are thicker.
Here's a pic of a previous year's tomato row on a trellis.
A few 10 ft 4x4 posts and a cattle panel or concrete wire and you're in business.
Here's shot of a cattle panel.
You can see the rusty concrete wire to the left of the cattle panel.
This message was edited May 17, 2010 7:49 PM
Kent, you plant directly into the straw bales? We did stakes this year because we just couldn't afford anything else. We made them out of old 2X6s we had lying around (and some new ones too, but still it was pretty cost effective). We wanted to do a Florida Weave, but didn't, though I don't know why, since we have so many stinking stakes!
This thread has some really helpful information! Thanks.
I, too, have been using cattle panels (one row on each side of the tomato row) and they have worked well. What else can one do with cattle panels when all the cattle are gone?
I drive three steel fence posts into the ground for each panel. Seems to work well and they provide much more support than wire cages that always broke/rusted after one or two seasons.
mevnmart: yep, I plant straight into the bales.
This is my 6th year.
We've got a Straw Bale Gardening forum at DG.
Take a look.
Kent
mervnmart, I'll second the recommendation of cattle panels as KentNC suggests. This is my first year using them. In the past I've always used cages or bamboo tripods. I had a load of panels we found at the back of our lot so I decided to use them (they were free after all). I like it a lot better as I can now easily spot the spider webs. Sounds crazy but it just creeps me out to reach into a tomato cage for a nice, juicy ripe tomato and find that I have put my hand through a spider web. EEEEK! Makes it easier to move the soaker hoses around if I need to, too.
Oh, and I hope that cute little kid in the photo can run fast. It looks like some sort of UFO is chasing him down to beam him up! ;~)
I have been using the same concrete wire cages for twenty years. If I ever wear them out I'm going to buy the cattle panels. I guess i'd have to tie up the tomatoes then.
I pruned about 20 plants today, and it made me nauseous! We had a crazy couple of days of heavy rain and the plants had veritably exploded. I was cutting low suckers with blooms on them! (I also managed to knock off a few green tomatoes). But the plants are SO much more manageable now, and they'll be easier to tie to the stakes. I didn't want to do them all at once (plus, I started to feel faint since it was hot as heck by 9am), because I wanted to see if I'd killed them by cutting so much. I didn't want to wipe out my whole crop with inexperience! I'll post some pics once I get around to it. Thanks for the advice, everyone!
Eileen
As long as you leave a main stalk, or even one of the suckers, the plant will be fine. They're hard to kill!
mervnmart, take courage! I once had an entire row of tomato plants chewed almost down to soil level by rabbits! I was certain all the plants were gonners and in a snit I left them where they were instead of pulling them out and cleaning up the area (as I would normally have done if I were not sooooo angry). Well, it rained for a couple of days after that and I forgot about the plants/stumps until the next weekend. By that time the tomato plants were growing back and they went on the produce some lovely tomatoes. Lessons learned. Never give up and tomatoes are verrrry resilient. And I pettily still hope those rabbits got massive diarrhea from eating those tomato plants! Those were my pre-Corgi days. Now a rabbit would be well advised to stay out of my garden. All other creatures seem to think if I'm in the garden, then they should be too. No not rabbits. The new Corgi is learning from the master--our ancient Red Heeler right now! He also is learning NOT to chew on the wall! =:o
It was awfully hot this past weekend, wasn't it! I got most of my tomatoes pruned and went on to plant more peppers. Phew! I started arount six in the morning, but I can't take working in the hot afternoons any more. You'd be surprised as how much better it is with a hat, tough! But the tomato plants smell sooooo good in the heat. Sometimes I just go out to the veg patch to just sit and smell the tomatoes!
That is a funny visual a rabbit with the runs. It would be even Funnier if they ate your hot peppers instead. Last year the rabbits ate all my dill to this day I swear they are pickled.
Well, so far so good. My MIL has such a hard time cutting the suckers that have blossoms, or God forbid, little tomatoes. I do too, for that matter, but man oh man are the plants looking better and they are SOOOO much easier to stake (since that's what we're working with). Thanks for all the info guys. I'll post pics of the rows in the next day or so (when I take a break from the never-ending nightmare of weeding!
This is a close up of a sucker--It's the small stem growing straight up, I've been removing most of them this year, the plants are small but the tomatoes are setting on well and growing.
I read on another site that you can plant the sucker in the soil which I tried and most of them lived. Poke a hole in the ground with your finger, put in the sucker and water the plant.
I'm not removing suckers, or lower leaves this year. I want to see what kind of yield I get leaving them on.
So far the plants are doing well, they are as tall as I am (5'7") lots of green tomatoes!
I plan to give them more guano this weekend.
HoneybeeNC I'm playing both sides of the fence this year. 1/2 is getting pruned other 1/2 leaving alone. I can't wait to see the end results. But I think I know whats going to happen.
What will happen?
I don't want to jinx myself so I'm going to say only... one hand a lot of smaller tomatoes with the chance of larger ones. The other hand much more large ones with the likelihood of the smaller ones sneaking threw here and there. I think the total weight should be around the same. As far as the plants health I'll fill that in at the end of the season. Along with other observation.
My plants are SO SMALL!
Mine are too, now that I pruned them. I'm leaving the ones I didn't get to so I can see what the difference is in how they do. I'm scared I may have sabotaged my crop. :(
Grow-Pittsburg - keep us posted. So far my maters are doing great. I keep itching to take off some suckers or lower leaves, but so far, have resisted the temptation.
I gave them more seabird guano this morning. I decided they didn't need anything else at this stage.
Oh, and another interesting (cruddy) thing - we've got probably a dozen plants that have just up and disappeared. They're not wilted, there's no dried up stalk - they're just GONE. My FIL thinks it was moles or gophers, but I don't know - haven't ever had to deal with them. So - that's a good chunk of tomatoes that disappeared into thin air!
From what I have read, moles eat grubs and worms. Voles eat plants. Don't know about gophers. Right now I'm having problems with voles eating my soybeans.
Another thought... maybe humans?
Ummm...I don't think it would be humans. My kids know not to touch the garden plants, and since we live up a quarter miles driveway, I can't imagine someone's sneaking in in the middle of the night to steal my plants! But it is curious. Don't know about voles. Have to look them up - so far I've only seen moles - one alive, one after the cats got to it. (Ewwwww...)
Pretty much any animal can be the culprit. Though they have a rep for being toxic, they are good eating for many critters. Do you have a picture? It would be helpful to see what is left to know what ate it.
I've only recently read up on voles. Evidentally there are two types here on the East Coast. You may have different ones where you are.
http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/nreos/wild/wildlife/wdc/voles2.html
dbailey - I took a photo this morning. If you look closely you can see the lower leaves are missing from the soy beans. They attack more soy beans each night.
