The new catalog Tea Cup arrived.
Summer Skies finally available in Japan.
In the land of the rising sun we did not commit the crisis? See the prices!
This is the cave of Ali Baba!
There are of course quite interests me.
http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=_t&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8&u=http://8030.teacup.com/asagao/shop&sl=ja&tl=en&history_state0=
Chocolat Carousel.
Dany - Nice selection of new and old cultivars and species! Is Summer Skies a tricolor?
Becky, Summer Skies is Blue Star crossed with Heavenly Blue so yes a tri-color.
Jackie - Thanks for educating me! I had no idea. I've only grown Blue Star, not Heavenly Blue. Which I say every year that I am going to try HB. I definitely want to try Flying Saucers this year for sure too! I love gardenpom's FS and BS cross! :-)
For anyone who cares to answer - So ... just curious ... if Summer Skies is so rare ... why hasn't anyone crossed those two cultivars to get Summer Skies until now? I got the impression that SS was a lost or very rare cultivar? Or am I wrong?
Becky, Well, maybe they're just not getting the cross right. Some
are selling sds called Summer Skies but apparantly does not
look like the original bloom.
Ron explained to us some time ago that SS is a Clarkes Early
Heavenly Blue which is a light HB (the dark seeded form) x
a nice colored Blue Star (light seed color).
I had written all this down as I knew I couldn't remember.
Summer Skies was/is a true breeding cultivar of Ipomoea tricolor, not an F1 cross of Blue Star and Heavenly Blue. What Ron said is that crosses of Blue Star and Heavenly Blue had been passed off as Summer Skies, but that subsequent generations reverted to Heavenly Blue. The light blue form of Heavenly Blue has also been erroneously passed off as Summer Skies. At this time, Summer Skies is still MIA.
This message was edited Dec 5, 2009 1:34 PM
If Summer Skies is really missing then it doesn`t exist. If someone does bring it back then there is no way to prove it is indeed the real Summer Skies and not just a look alike so it will be subject to much controversy. I want to stay away from this kind of thing.
If I were a breeder who came up with a very dilute i tri color that is lighter than the Dilute Heavenly Blue I would avoid the use of a old name like Summer Skies and just grow it through 5 generations and release it as Delightful Heavenly Blue. It will be new again just like Summer Skies used to be new and hopefully people will not make the mistake of not caring about it until it is gone.
Lets wake up and realize the flowers we grow today are the ones people will dream of years after we are gone. If only we could just stop a minute and look ahead.
All I know is what I had written down and I thought written down correctly. I for one won't argue as it is nothing to me so I will offer, venture nothing else regarding this matter. If anyone
wants to argue, it won't be with me. Sorry Becky, I would not steer you wrong on purpose.
Hey Jackie! Heck, you had heard more than me! I had never even heard of Summer Skies until this year. LOL! They all look like blue flowers to me! (Just kidding ...)
Interesting information and theories about this rare/extinct cultivar of tri-color. So I wonder when the last time it was actually sold as the true cultivar? Years and years ago, I presume?
Jackie, You are right that Ron mentioned crossing the Light Heavenly Blue with Blue Star.
This is what Ron said Quote:
{ The Summer Skies that I grew and obtained from Redwood City Seed Co in 1972 was a light beige seed and had the lighter almost transparent blue of the "Blue Star" ( but without the gene for spotting which causes the darker star pattern along the mid-petaline primary folds)...
The Summer Skies that I grew never looked just like a 'paler' Heavenly Blue
It would be interesting to try multiple crossings of the very light Heavenly Blue being offered as SummerSkies and cross it to a light seeded Blue Star ...the results may yield something as close to the real SummerSkies as we are going to get...}
End of Quote.
Thank you karen for looking that up. I do recall Rons post
re Blue Skies, which he touched on more than once.
I do think your idea to give it a different name is a great idea even if it looks more like Summer Skies than any other cross. Some of
the almost identical blooming vines to the original are very desirable.
It is very sad to think of these lovely cultivars we are now growing being lost to future generations. Is a seed bank the answer, I for
one don't know.
Jackie - A Seed Bank may be good idea.
But ... only if the seeds are shared and grown out and then a few are also shared back to replenish the seed bank so that the seeds are always viable. Hoarding seeds to "save" them is senseless to me. What's the point unless folks get to grow them out, enjoy them, and share the seeds around with everyone. Which is what I enjoy doing ... sharing with everyone! :-) I know there are people that don't agree with my point of view ...
And I am known for crossing MGs, so my opinion probably doesn't count. LOL!
This message was edited Dec 5, 2009 6:37 PM
Becky, I agree about sharing the sds. Also gives us a source when we lose our sds. Nice to be able to go back to someone we shared with
previously. They're always willing to share some back with you.
The more people we share with, the better.
It’s possible that the seeds offered by this company in Japan are true Summer Skies seeds that have been reintroduced to the trade using seeds from a seed bank. The only way to know for sure is if somebody buys them, grows them out, and determines they are not a light Heavenly Blue or an unstable cross.
Summer Skies may still be being grown in this country, by a woman say in Alabama or Mississippi who received the seeds from her grandmother and values them because of her childhood memories of her grandmother. This woman would of course be unaware of what she has and unless somebody recognizes her flowers they will never become known to the wider public. Sunrise Serenade disappeared from public view for a long time, being grown only by a few individuals before being rediscovered. Rareseedman has stated he has a Summer Skies plant produced from old seeds from 1993, so he may eventually have seeds to share.
Darold Decker, the man who introduced Summer Skies to the trade, took his secrets to the grave with him. He may well have produced it by crossing varieties of Ipomoea tricolor to produce a flower with the light blue background of Blue Star but lacking the spotting gene. This has been attempted without success so far by people trying to recreate Summer Skies.
This message was edited Dec 7, 2009 5:38 AM
The sharing on forums like this one is doing more for preserving varieties in one year than any one person could do in a lifetime. Noone can "grow it all" and noone "knows it all" and gardeners need each other.
Karen
How many grow-outs does it take to determine if it is Heavenly Blue or the actual Summer Skies?
I agree that the only way to know for sure is to grow out seeds sold as Summer Skies. Was Summer Skies seeds sold commercially years ago or was it shared by a private grower such as the name list ... Darold Decker?
Darold Decker was a nurseryman and plant breeder best known for his work with morning glories. He is responsible for Summer Skies, Flying Saucers, Wedding Bells, and Ipomoea nil “Candy Pink”. There used to be copies of his vintage ads for morning glory seeds on several sites on the web, but I haven’t been able to relocate them. He passed away in 1963. If he kept notes of his work in breeding morning glories they were never found.
I’m not a plant breeder or a botanist, so I can’t say how many generations of line breeding are required before a cultivar that is propagated by seed can be declared stable. I would imagine an F1 cross of Blue Star and the light form of Heavenly Blue would break down in the F2 generation, with few of the F2 generation resembling the F1 generation.
The cost of the Japanese Summer Skies seeds comes out to just over $116 for 5 seeds. Add any S&H fees, the cost of an import permit, plus I live in a state that bans the importation of any species of Ipomoea, and I can assure you I’m not going to be the one who buys them, grows them out, and sends some on to Ron and other experts for verification. If they prove to be the real thing, I suspect they will be available within a few years from an American source at a more reasonable price (and in my case, far less legal risk).
Do you suppose J. L Hudson has them? They recently released another tri-color (Wedding Bells) this year that was found by Darold Decker and also released it to A. Ishiguro in Japan:
http://www.jlhudsonseeds.net/Supplement%202009%20H-L.htm (scroll down to Ipomoea tri-color Wedding Bells.
It is true that there is an enigma on this cultivar clear Heavently Blue.
Last June I send a message on 2 different blogs of MG fans in Japan.
The the first blog is one that is linked to this commerciaL page of Tea Cup. I was told that this variety still alive in U.S. and was post a photo of Easydinar ebayer ( seller of Clear HB in US ). I concluded that the variety on sale in Japan is Heavently Light Blue with black seeds (Prices: U.S. - 10 seeds for $ 25 / Japan - 1 seeds for $ 23).
The second message was posted to the site of the University of Kyushu and Miss Nita said to know nothing over Summer Skies cultivar and would like some seeds.
The only serious in seeking of Summer Skies is Ray (Rareseeds) and collaborators.
But Ray and his character!! LOL
All it will take is one old pack with still viable seeds such as happened with Wedding Bells, or someone recognizing the identity of an heirloom plant that has been passed down in their family. Morning Glory seeds can remain viable for decades, so this one may be lurking in a desk drawer somewhere.
No doubt there are seeds or even vines growing somewhere here in the USA.
Interesting how talk of Summer Skies has emerged. Do you suppose that one of the commercial companies has it and is getting ready to release it to the market? I had not heard of this cultivar of I. tri-color until this year, so why all the buzz about it? I suspect that perhaps someone is currently producing seeds to market. Time will tell.
What other cultivars/species are now rare or lost? Are there any other tri-color cultivars that have gone missing? What about I. purpureas?
This topic would sure make an interesting thread.
I know that there once were black as well as yellow color I. nil blooms that have gone missing. Since WWII? Like a treasure hunt without a map...
You know something else bothering me ...
If Summer Skies was sold commercially (the last time commercially sold was 1993?), then surely the seed company would still have some. That would be 16+ years ago. Why would a company let their stock go extinct? Seriously... wouldn't they put some away in a vault or some place such as a seed bank to preserve? MG seeds keep for a long time if preserved properly. Could this possibly be intentional ... to remove a cultivar of a plant (any plant for that matter) from sales/circulation, so that they could reintroduce and market it later? That would certainly give them publicity and possibly boost their commercial seed sales for any year they reintroduce rare plant species.
In 1993, we didn't have internet in every home. Dave's Garden didn't exist yet. Traders conducted their business through horticultural clubs locally and nationally and even internationally. I was far removed from gardening back then. In fact, I think more people garden today than ever before. With access to the internet now, more people are aware of what they have. Most internet "searches" list Dave's Garden. We have a Plant ID forum. I don't know how many people are members of DG, but I would guess there are a lot and it is growing.
I know more and more people growing veggie and fruit gardens because of the recent recession. And most folks go to the internet to find information on how to grow these plants. My guess is that someone has already ID'ed Summer Skies from their own garden as you have said. So it is just a matter of time before it is commercially sold once again. :-)
This message was edited Dec 6, 2009 9:48 AM
Wedding Bells, Sunrise Serenade, Flying Saucers, Candy Pink and others have all reappeared in recent years. It's probably just a matter of time before Summer Skies is available again. I've known about it for a long time and the search has been on for years. Several years ago I bought some of the SummerSkiesNot that are offered on e-Bay, I will eventually grow them out because they look interesting even though they aren’t the real thing. The University of Rhode Island mentions having grown Summer Skies years ago in their "drug garden" and may have preserved some seeds. I imagine they've received a number of inquiries from people looking for this variety.
This message was edited Dec 6, 2009 12:07 PM
I guess I am really naive. I had no clue that MG seeds were considered a form of drug until I started doing an internet search on some cultivars a couple of years ago when I first started growing the vines. I grow them for the flowers and their aesthetic appeal. It had never even occured to me that some people would grow them for illegal purposes. Weird. I am sure that still goes on today, but it seems really stupid and risky. The seeds are poisonous. That's something I have never understood ... why people would do anything for a high. I can't imagine life being that difficult or boring that a person is driven to do drugs. Maybe I am in the minority these days when it comes to such irresponsibility and foolishness. But I truly don't "get" why people do it!
I am sure there are seeds somewhere, too! It's just a matter of time ...
There would be no point in seeking out Summer Skies specifically to get high, as the seeds of any tricolor cultivar will do for this purpose. I love the background color of Blue Star and would love to have a morning glory of this color minus the star pattern.
I wish I could see a photo of Blue Star, Summer Skies, and Heavenly Blue next to each other for comparison. I know what Blue Star looks like. That's one I have grown the past 2 years. Never grown Heavenly Blue. (I think I need to grow that one this Spring.) And of course, Summer Skies is not available. Hard to imagine blue blooms I haven't seen yet.
If I was in the U.S. long ago that I send a mail to the University of Rhode Island for what it is.
Make a seed bank conservatory would be interesting but the only way is to disseminate, share and make known the MG.It is true that there is a natural selection takes place, only varieties loved persist.More MG fans more varieties find their lover.
This company which broadcast Summer Skies still a live?
Here is a photo comparison of different tricolor.
2 types of Heavently Blue Star Blue, Pearly Gates, Flying Saucers and Summer Skies NOT.
http://pics.davesgarden.com/pics/dany12_1253597262_975.jpg
Darold Decker passed away without heirs in 1963 and his company died with him, so this isn't a possible source for long forgotten Summer Skies seeds.
Darold Decker collaborated with D. Burpee - creation of new variety of marigolds. They may be know something about Summer Skies.
There are rights on the new creation végétales.New roses are copyrighted for 20 years. If you invent a new variety of potato and it's commercial success, it made a fortune.
