Starting iris seeds

Hey y'all. we've gone a bit quiet in the iris forum. It's that time of year, time to rest. But I've not planted my most recent seeds yet! The first year I planted, nothing's come up yet. So I'm looking for pointers. I just stuck them in a light potting soil mix in 1 gal pots outside. suggestions for what to do appreciated!

or if y'all know of a great iris seed thread on here, please bump it up!

We start them that way in small flats outside. Were you cold enough last winter? I assume that the seeds are from TBs & they can wait a second year before germination. I know irises with an aphylla backgraoud do. Protective screens over the pots to keep out birds & rodents?

I have never had eny exp. with the seed at all and need to start from point 1 here. Ok Experts help us out.

well, no, no protective screens. but yes, we got into the low teens last winter.

putting a 1/2 to 1 inch layer of clay breaker keeps the seeds from surfacing. I planted some iris seeds last fall and they are just now starting to sprout! they can take years some times if the correct things aren't done. Keep them evenly moist too.

what on earth is clay breaker? I've got HARD clay and I've never heard of it!

I have not heard of it either and I did not realize the seed could take so long. Is there a wway to force them to hurry without harming them??

I have a few articles on starting seeds. The first article is about JI and Sibs, but it also applies to tall bearded iris seeds.

http://www.cdn-iris.ca/seeds.html

very good articles. I see we may not have had enough cold two winters ago to germinate my seeds.

I have yet to find clay breaker but I think it is gypsum. Someone told me to use it. I think its just a name brand or something.

Here is a link that I found very helpful when I started hybridizing a couple of years ago. The first is an article by Paul Black that was written while he was still in Oklahoma. I used this method for the crosses I made in 2006 and 2007. My 2006 seeds germinated at appproximately 85% level and 2007 at 72%. The only difficulty with this method is the handling of the seedlings when lining them out during the following season.

http://home.flash.net/~mindpath/ssis/oneway.htm

I have more recently used a modification of the method that was described in an article written by Leonard and Kathryn Jedlicka in the Fall 2005 issue of Tall Talk Magazine. It basically involves planting individual seeds in a soil filled pvc tube and nesting these tubes together. Over wintering the nested tubes as described in Paul Black's article above, then after germination and spring growth, the indivicual seedlings can be pushed from the pvc tube and planted without disturbing the root structure of the seedling.
My 2008 hybridizing effort resulted in 29 crosses and 850 seeds of which 520 germinated and were planted (61%). Below is a picture of the nested tubes after germination began and uncovered from the overwintering. They are made from 1" dia. X 4" long pvc thin wall pipe. I will include several other posts depicting the planting of the seedlings.

The following picture shows the nested seedling tubes during planting.

Here is an individual seedling before removal from the tube.

Another after removal from tube.

Finally, here is my 2008 seedling bed after lining out. I am now preparing the tubes for the 2009 hybridizing season, and have ~800 seeds to plant again this year from 30 crosses.
Later this winter I will be posting pictures in my Iris Journal of earlier years' results of hybridizing.

Quite an efficient procedure. What do you use for the soil mix in the tubes?

Thank you for posting those pictures..

dd95172 thanks for the posting and photo's. That is a brilliant and space/back saving idea. How long on Average from Germination to removing from he PVC?

gypsum is what they make sheetrock out of, flowrgirl. and yes, it's a great additive into clay, I've just never heard it called clay breaker before. I've been adding it, with godd results, for 3 years.

hmmm- I have a ton of old PVC piping here, it was here when we moved in. looks like it was part of something, but we never could figure out what it went to! there's probably near 70 feet of it. now where's my hacksaw??? but it's probably 2" wide....

questions for you DD -

in those frames, are they placed on the ground? I see where it looks like some of the roots where left behind in the box after the tubes were removed.

and do you label each tube? how do you work the labels?

Polly & Rebloomnut,
I use a mixture of "Scotts Seed Starter", sand, and peat moss at an approximate ratio of 1/3 each. After loose filling in the nested tubes, I tamp down with a flattened end of a broom stick resulting in ~1" of free space above mix. I then place one seed in each tube, and re-fill with the mix and again tamp down. After loading the entire tray it is placed on a bed of sand and banked in with a covering of pine straw. This loading is completed during early December, and watered weekly during the winter if I'm home. As we spend most of the winter in Maui, I pretty much rely on winter rain to do the watering for me. The picture in post 7249334 was taken on April, 14 after removal of the pine straw when all danger of frost has passed. I was somewhat late in planting this year as I had to prepare the bed for these seedlings after all other purchases and trades were completed. Planting was completed on August 29. My goal for this next year is to plant new seedlings by mid-July. They are nearly as large then as late August. One item of note on the tube frame construction that is key, the bottom of the frame is constructed of a layer of landscape fabric, supported by galvanized hardware cloth stapled around the edges. This give adequate support for the tubes and allows for good drainage for the seedlings. One other item of note is to water routinely during the growth period in the tubes. I used Miracle grow mixed with water to keep watered every few days.
Below is a picture of the frames after construction showing the bottom.

Bonjon,
I believe that planting earlier in the summer will minimize the root damage that occurred this past summer, hence, my note above that I will try to plant earlier in the summer. As far as labeling, this past year I used photoshop to create a picture of which tubes contained a given cross--see picture below. This, however, was cumbersome when I planted the seedlings. I am currently thinking of using T labels to separate the groups of seeds from each other this year, by placing the T labels between the individual tube rows to mark the location rather than the lines I put on a photoshop image.

thanks. great photos by the way. I'm serious about having nearly 70 ft of PVC. Think it might have been some kind of watering system? or it was part of the swimming pool? anyway, it looks bigger than 1" - other than taking more soil, think it would hurt to use it? the pipe is a bit dirty on the outside from exposure, but the inside looks cleaner.

Thank you.

Bonjon,
Just more cumbersome to use and remove seedling from tube. Also they would require larger hole to plant plug into.

Dennis (hope that's right),

How do you buy your PVC, and how do you cut it?

i am unfortunately a 'girlie girl', and know nothing or less about this kind of stuff. But my husband can do it, if I tell him how it's done. I would love to try starting some of the SIGNA seeds this way.

This message was edited Nov 7, 2009 10:44 AM

Polly & Bonjon I think this would be an invaluable tool for both of you for seedlings. I won't be doing any but still love to learn.
Bon I think 1" would work better but why not try both and see how you do.

DD thanks for all the info.

I've seen the pool repair guys cut PVC quick with a round cutting tool, and I've seen my dad cut it with a hacksaw.

was kinda hoping my friend with his table saw could do it - FAST! LOL

There are many tools available for cutting rigid pvc pipe up to at least schedule 80.
From the el-cheapo to professional grade you can go from $15 to easily $100. Best
bet for cutting say a couple hundred pieces of pipe is get hubby or a neighbor with
a 'chop saw' to set up a measured stop and cut them as fast as you can advance the
pipe. Using a tubing cutter or a pvc shear pliers will do a number on your wrist even
if you only cut a dozen pieces.

Pvc pipe is sold at almost any hardware store in various lengths and schedules. The
most common is schedule 40 which is relatively thick and schedule 80 which is much
heavier. I think you can go down to schedule 10 which would be considered thin wall
conduit. The thicker the wall the higher the pricing.

Thanks Jerry. Russ said already he had a chop saw, so that's a go. I will get schedule 10 conduit then. I certainly don't need a hundred pieces. I only want about 50 or so little tubes.

i don't know how you guys know all this stuff, I mean some women do also, but a lot don't, and men just seem to know all about stuff like PVC pipes.

I've never heard of a chop saw? we've got table saw and table miter saw, hand saw, hack saw, jig saw (small) , and electric saw. any of these what you're talking about?

See, now that's what I mean, LOL. Russ says a chop saw is a mounted circular saw. Of course my husband has one, as he has one of everything of those things.

I'll have to check, but I think that's the type of saw, with mitering capacity, that my friend has.

However, this PVC in my backyard is very thick walled. I'm going to check out the thickness and prices of PVC at the supply store.

It's cheap. I looked. 1' X 10' 200 psi is 2.17 at Lowes. I plan on getting about 5 of them, and that should be more than enough for me. I'll need to check into what Jerry said about the wall thinness.

Yes, a 'chop saw' is really an electric circular saw mounted on a short swing arm
and is used for everything from cutting 2x6 boards to angle cuts on trim or molding.

'Schedule' refers to the thickness of the wall of the pipe and is listed according to
engineering standards. Schedule 20 would be the most appropriate thickness for
the planting tubes but it may not be available in a 1" size. Schedule 40 is the most
commonly used thickness for small piping.

Thanks, Jerry!

What I do is really simple and get about 85+% germination rate. Fill one gallon pots with potting mixture, sprinkle seeds on top about 25 to each pot. Cover, mark on both a plant stake and on the black with white china marker, lightly cover seeds with the finest gravel I can find, put outside try to pot up in Oct but this year it was Nov. Water once inside, move to outside, cover with bird netting, only because of the turkeys, grouse and chuckers we have here and water if needed and let them go, usually first sides of germination start in Jan and Continue, try to plant out in May or June.

Now on the Spuria, Siberian and the JI those seeds can take 1-2 years to germinate so I never empty my pots until the 4th year.

D

Think I'm going to have to use something very small for covering to keep our squirrels out. if you check in the Carolina gardening forum - you'll see a thread on our fat tailed nemeses.

Wow, guys so much information for a Sunday morning. Can you germinate seeds where it does not freeze except for a few day, usually in late January, early February? We also get no rain.

well, the fellas in CA do a load of hybridizing, so it must be possible where the weather is warm. Probably stratify the seeds, but I've not tried that.

OK, I will show how dumb I am. What is stratify?