Formula for Succulent Mix

This mix was advised by Dr. Barard from New Jersey It is advised for the No. Eastern States.
I would like to share it with the group

4 parts Metromix 366 Coir
2 parts Diatomite
1 part Turface
1 part Granite Grit Now if you can get the products suggested it may work
for your cactus and succulents.

Norma

with names like that i don't think that i would use it even if i knew what the ingredients were. i might try them sauteed with a little fresh Meyer lemon juice though. xuling

Too bad! Sorry that I bothered with all of you people complaing what to do with your dying plants. I was very excited to find this formula for a mix for the northern states. Especailly with so many forum members asking for help. Norma

Norma

This message was edited Sep 10, 2009 9:56 AM

I am always interested in different mixes & products--so thanks for posting! Two of those products are new to me so I am going to have to research them. There are about as many "recipes as there are growers (and we all think ours is the best;)-- somtimes you just have to kill a few to learn what will best work for you. For years I used the mix recipe suggested by Edgar & Brian lamb in "Exotic Collection"--(my very first C & S book purchased when I was 17, a while back now!!) the biggest rule of thumb is that it must be well drained. A good nursery should have most of the above ingredients-- or may be able to get them for you--if not-- try a greenhouse supply-like Hummert's.

Please, don't get wizzed off so quickly, Norma. ONE person responded semi-negatively. I appreciate having the information. That said, where I live, I find it very difficult to find any kind of potting mix ingredients. I just paid $17 for a 1ftx1ftx6" box of pumice. I checked every nursery local to me and no one carries pumice (or wants to order it in). I can guarantee you that no one around where I live has Turface, Diatomite, Granit grit, or "Metromix 366 Coir".

Now I'm not in the NE so I don't know whether or not that mix would work for me (I'm in mid-western Ohio), but if you could ask Dr. Barard for retailers in the NE that carry those ingredients, I'm sure folks in that area would be tickled pink.

Sharon

Sharon,
I wanted to get pumice too but like you found it impractical. I use chicken grit (get it at a farm/feed store) instead and like it. I mix it with coir and a soil conditioner I get at the neighborhood nursery that has no peat at approx 1/3 each - maybe more grit.
I agree, calm down Norma. We all appreciate your input.
Now I want to research those ingredients. :-)
Helen

The only ingredient I recognize is the chicken grit and possibly the coir. Isn't coir something to do with a cocoanut like the stuff we find baskets lined with?

I believe it is of coconut origin and if so it needs to be washed thoroughly because it usually has a lot of salt in it.

Sharon

Coir is coconut husks. You can get in chunks or ground. I get the ground kind that is dried and compressed into bricks. They reconstitute and expand. But I never rinsed it to wash off salt! Opps! My plants are doing okay at least. Maybe the stuff I got was prerinse!! I don't know.
I get it on eBay.

Helen

I live in the northeast and appreciate having ingredients listed. In some cases, a similar product can be substituted. I can find grani-grit at the feed store and some of the other supplies at work (I work in a hardware store, tending the plants). There are plenty of nurseries and box retailers to check for these things, too, but I think the most difficult may be the turface. Most of my cold hardy C&S made it through last winter, but we had a very wet summer and quite a few of the large sedums didn't make it. I had only improved the soil with grani-grit, but will see about mixing in the rest. Thank you!

Coir certainly doesn't need rinsing, it comes ready to use. A test I read of for free draining soil is to take a handful, compress it in your hand and then see if it crumbles apart on its own, very porous soils should do this but if it remains as a lump of soil that needs to be loosened to get it back to its original state then it will tend to clog in the pot and not give good drainage. It doesn't really matter too much what particular soil ingredients are used as long as there is only a small proportion of fine material like sand and soil, if coarse gravel etc is making up the bulk of the mix it ought to drain well.

This message was edited Sep 10, 2009 9:52 AM

I checked out the ingredients I wasn't familiar with--Turface is a substance like crushed Terra Cotta, available on E-bay. Diatomite is a form of diatomaceous earth-- used for insect control--interesting to add it to the soil!! I couldn'[t find a source for a brand named "Diatomite" so will have to keep checking on that to see if agricultural diatomaceous earth is the same. The sources I found mentioned that the Metro-Mix 366 is becoming difficult to find-- even Hummerts (who I thought had everything) doesn't carry it--But one site listed the composition as "30-40% coconut coir pith, 20-30% horticultural vermiculite, 20-30% composted pine bark, and 10-20% perlite. " all that stuff should be fairly easy to find. I was busy typing when Norma posted-- I might add a good source of gravel is a med- coarse grade of sandblasing sand-- the difference between it and regular sand is that all the grains are the same size. I pesonally use Quik-Crete sand-- it is in 70# bags and while the grains are not uniform, they are not so fine they they compact.

This message was edited Sep 7, 2009 2:01 PM

Diatomite or Diatomaceous Earth is made of silica shards, very tiny, that I thought was good for killing bugs in the soil by destroying their exoskeleton. Norma, do you know if that is the function in the mix? Thanks.

Helen

Hillbilly Gran, seems we are all typing at the same time.

^_^ that we are!! and re-reading my post I either can't spell--or can't type;) LOL too old to learn new tricks!!

I'm a little confused as to why C/S soil mixes need to be so complicated. Maybe it's more important in the wetter states? I consider myself still quite a novice even though I've been growing succulents for over 20 years now. The soil I use is very basic, one part perlite/pumice/other aerator, one part potting mix/soil, one part sand/DG. For some reason, the plants I do not kill with too much water seem to grow very well.

I think there are as many soil recipes as there are enthusiasts. It is whatever works for you and your growing situation, everyone's is unique. Unfortunately it is a trial and error kind of thing-- Climate and watering habits are BIG factors. I have sent many plants to the greenhouse in the sky. I killed every succulent I brought to Arkansas from California--except for 2, and I had grown them for years. But when it comes down to it, the basic guidelines are the same--drainage-drainage-drainage- everyone just tweaks them in some manner. I am always interested in hearing other recipes and often incorporate some of those ideas into my "concoction" (which is very similar to yours in many ways) I am really really intrigued by the additon of diatomite-- would this discourage the ubiquitous root mealy? HMMMMMMM

DMersh said

if you buy coir that is sold for horticultural purposes, this should be already cleaned of salt, possibly salt problems occur if coir is bought that isn't specifically for growing things in, it does have various other uses beyond horticulture.

Dave

Coir is often washed with salt water at it's point of origin. Unless the package specifies that it is salt free you are risking your plants by not washing it. This is from orchid experts and vendors who use and supply horticultural products. Washing the coir is easy. Resurrecting a dead plant is not.

Sharon

Mamasita ~ do you leave all your cold hardy succulents out in winter?

This is a specific apology to Crasulady2 and an open apology for everyone else who was offended by my post about the ingredients. I wasn't ridiculing anyone or anything. I was in one of my giddy moods and was having fun; apparently I misjudged my sick humour. Often in life I do nonintentional stupid and offensive things without thinking in advance about how others may react. Xuling

Yes, I do. I have put in a few which are called "cold hardy", but only to something like 32 degrees - HA! They don't make our first freeze. The others have done quite well, and I was very surprised and happy with the results. No special treatments.

Not even mulch? I was curious as I am interested in improving our soil drainage for an outdoors succulents bed.

Xuling ~ I haven't been around you too much but picked up on that being a "tongue in cheek". That is why I find myself LOL ing way too much but it is an attempt not to be misunderstood. Doesn't always work... LOL pod

The only mulch is whatever leaves happen to blow in during late autumn and winter. This year, it will be different since I'll have to keep deer netting over the little garden. The wretched creatures discovered it this summer and did a number on the sedums that didn't rot from all the rain. I was almost hoping they'd find the cacti and come away with a nose full of barbs, and leave the rest of the garden alone. No such luck. The cacti look great, though.

thanks podster,
xuling

This message was edited Sep 7, 2009 6:47 PM

xuling,
I haven't found anything you have said on these forums offensive. Silly is good. All this should be FUN!!! We are talking about plants, not heart transplants or strokes!!

Helen

Xuling-- I took it as tongue in cheek too--but then I have a really oddball sense of humor ^_^ Many many times i have typed a reply to a thread and then looked at and deleted the whole thing;)

After talking to a lot of succulent and cactus growers (and looking at the mixes of plants I buy) I have learned several things. One is almost no one's mixes are the same. Two is it really doesn't seem to matter as long as the mix is very well draining. The one common ingredient I find in some of the healthiest looking succulents is pumice. About 50% (up to what seems like 90% sometimes) of these mixes is pumice (much preferred over perlite as the later, as the name suggests, is light... and often gets eventually compacted or simply washed out of the mix). The other 50% seems to be whatever is available that day.. potting soil, peat, sand, gravel, wood chips, dirt, charcoal, etc. I find most succulents to be adaptable plants, and if I add a lot of pumice to whatever mix or stuff I have around, they almost all seem to do great. It's when I run out of pumice and try to make up for it with gravel, sand, wood chips, peat etc. that I eventually run into problems, usually with drainage or too much water retention.. or sometimes (with peat) not enough water retention. I am sure there is some ideal 'perfect' mix out there and maybe Norma's is it, but for most practical purposes, pumice and 'whatever' seems to work for me.

I recently attended a workshop hosted by the Henry Shaw Cactus & Succulent Society, at the Missouri Botanical Gardens. Here's the potting materials they suggested using a mix of, not everything listed, just what your personal choice would be:

Metro-mix 700
Pumice (substitute for Perlite)
Parboiled Rice Hulls
Pea Gravel
Turface (holds water, adds air)
Large Perlite
Diatomite (substitute for Perlite)
Large Diatomite
Coir (substitute for Peat)
Charcoal
Iron granules

They said a mix could contain: 1/3 Metro-mix 700 + 1/3 pumice + 1/3 pea gravel.

When I repotted some cacti recently I did an equal mix of:
Metro-mix 700
Pumice
Pea Gravel
Rice Hulls
Turface (not quite an equal portion)
Coir (a small amount)

I hand mixed and sifted through with my fingers to see how it looked, then added some more pumice. I agree with palmbob, I think pumice needs to be at least 50% of the mix.

Unfortunately, I cannot find a local source for pumice, only mail order. We have Hummerts locally, but they do not carry pumice.

Anyone living in the St. Louis area that knows of a pumice source?

Per the Cacti Society, one drawback to using Diatomite is salt. You will have to deconstruct your pot or dig up your succulent to rinse away salt deposits over time. The Society didn't say anything about Coir and salt. They did say not to use the commercially packaged Cacti & Succulent potting mixes on the market, because they usually contain fine sand, which they said is not actually found in succulents native habitat, and fine sand actually holds water, doesn't provide sharp drainage.

Locally we have what is called Traction Sand (a small gravel), which I use as top dressing and have been known to add to succulent potting mixes.

The Society also suggested fertilizing with 1/4 strength every time you water during the growing season, but always make sure the plants roots are wet when you fertilize. And when potting, add more rock drainage if the container is shallow. Also, water less when the temps are 98 degress or higher.

This message was edited Sep 8, 2009 11:36 AM

Thanks for all the great info, hummer_girl. Do you know what the Metro-mix 700 is and where it can be obtained? Good luck on the pumice. I DO NOT understand why it is not available nation wide. I bought a 12" by 12" by 6" box online for $17 (including shipping). I have over a hundred cactus and succulents and to repot all in 50% pumice would cost me a small fortune.

Go to ebay and in the search field put "Pumice for soil mix" and you will see the listing. The size box listed there is supposed to be two gallons.

Sharon

This message was edited Sep 8, 2009 2:03 PM

Helen, yes it is exactly, and I have used it in my small pots of Haworthia, and it works like a charm. It is the stuff they use for swimming pool filters, which is not the same as we use for horticulture. I get instructions from the growers, they give me information freely, and don't keep secrets. Sorry hands are really bothering me, can't type, must stop now. Norma

Sharon: Where did you get that much mail order pumice for $17.? I paid more!

Hummerts (local) sells Sun Gro Metro-mix 700. I shared the cost with my friend and she has the original bag so I can't tell you what the bag says, but online Sun Gro Horticulture says their Metro-mix 700 contains: "Bark, Canadian Sphagnum peat moss, horticultural grade Vermiculite, horticultural grade Perlite, starter nutrient charge, Dolomitic Limestone and our long-lasting wetting agent". What is their "starter nutrient charge" or "our long-lasting wetting agent", I don't know. On Hummerts website they list the Sun Gro Metro-mix 700 as: "An excellent coarse mix with outstanding aeration, percolation and nutrient retention characteristics. A blend of Canadian Sphagnum peat moss, vermiculite, perlite, moderately coarse composted pine bark, wetting agent and nutrient charge. pH range is 5.3-6.5 after wetting with acid forming fertilizers. Weight approx. 57 lbs."

What I have learned about potting mixes for Cacti and Succulents is the mix is like politics and religion; everyone has an opinion and everyone thinks they are right. So it is a matter of choice.

I have to say water flows freely through the mix I used, and my plants are thriving, the Gymnocalycium are continuing to bloom and new growth is sprouting on the Sulcorebutia rauschii and Rebutia krainziana.

Pumice is not available nation wide due to the cost of delivery, it ismined on an Indian Reservation. subsitute for the poduct. Perhaps using a product holding water is not the best for your plants.? Norma

Years ago I purchased a large box of pumice from Grigsby's Cactus gardens in Vista, CA (I think that's where they are located?). The product did not cost much but the shipping was high. I'm not sure if they still sell pumice via mail order, but it wouldn't hurt to ask.

I just use quite a bit of perilite in my mix and then use a gravel covering to maintain the soil structure in the pot. If the gravel topping is not used, all of the perilite floats to the top of the pot. Perilite is much more readily available and cheaper than pumice.

Depending on where you live, that will determine the type of soil works best for you. Many of the plants I've received via mail order, from the SW USA, that are shipped still in their pot tend to be in very heavy soil. I would guess this is due to their many cloudless days and fairly warm temps. A heavier soil mix is needed so they don't have to water daily. If I kept the plants in that same mix, they would rot in a heartbeat.
Mike

http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=m38&_nkw=Pumice+for+soil+mix

There are currently 3 listings for pumice at the above link. If they are no longer available by the time you see this go to eBay and type in "Pumice for soil mix" in the search field and it will take you to current "auctions". NOTE.....the first 3 are all 2 gallons and "buy it now", but have 3 different prices all three with free shipping.

Sharon

Thanks for the pumice links. I will check them out.

At the Cacti show, the cactus society person giving the demonstration mentioned the potting medium used by retail/wholesale growers for cacti & succulents. She said the 'commerical grower's mix' used by retail/wholesale growers is too rich for longtime growth. Their product is meant for a fast turnover, which means as soon as we (the buying public) purchase our plants, we need to repot in the proper growing medium. She also said we need to remove as much of the 'commerical grower's mix' as possible from around the roots, since one type of potting mix can become a barrier to another potting mix, which may affect the ability of root growth. Apparently, not all growing mediums like being in close contact with one another.

The cacti society said pumice and turface help to aerate the potting mix, though both have the ability to retain some water. Pumice is riddled with air pockets and though it has some ability to retain water, most flows through. Turface is an amendment used to aerate, retain moisture and help with drainage. I know it is used in maintanence to absorb moisture, so when I use it I add a smaller amount. We were told never to let the roots get dry as dust, so using pumice and/or turface makes a little moisture available to the roots between watering, but not enough to cause rot if your mix has sharp drainage. The way it was put to the attendees, if the mix you use has water flowing out as fast as it is poured in, then rotting from overwatering will never be a problem.

And as for perlite, no matter how much top dressing I use, perlite always works its way up, a little at a time. Most annoying.

Pumice question ~ there are different sizes. What is the recommended size for use in pots?

hummer_girl, what a beautiful arrangement of cactus and pots. The cactus appear to be in perfect condition and are offset wonderfully by their containers. xuling