Lasagna gardening - opinion on using cardboard

Started my first lasagna gardening project and ran out of newspaper very quickly. This is a long row of existing wax myrtle shrubs that I want to layer up with newspaper, compost, leaves, etc., and plant flowers next spring. A local air conditioning contractor is very happy to bring me his huge cardboard cartons that the AC units come in. (A real pain for them to cut up to fit in dumpster.) Of course, it is somewhat thicker than the newspaper I was putting down. Is there any reason not to use cardboard?

Also I have a supply of blueprints I could use. They are no longer printed in the old blueprint method, which I would think would not be a good thing to use. Nowdays it is just huge sheets of photocopy paper, no different than office copy paper. Any reason not to use those?

Thanks.

You are OK with both.

I was told by a very knowledgeable organic gardener that cardboard is a fave of worms...they love something in the mix that binds it all together....so to attract worms, bury cardboard...or lay it on the ground.

Anyone know if this is true?

I don't know WHY, but I've created several new beds by laying down cardboard on the ground to smother the grass, and then layering with clippings, leaves, etc. The worms seem to love it.

I prefer cardboard over newspaper.

Karen

This is interesting news...really appreciate it. Anymore great news about cardboard? Does it matter if the cardboard is printed on (like USPS boxes)? I know that the glossy paper on the cardboard isn't good...but what about just print?

Any cardboard is fine. Against the soil is best but anywhere in the layers of mulch will be fine.

I think I will run some experiments with cardboard: I have the room and I am curious, for instance, how fast it decomposes in different thicknesses,? does it make a difference if it is on end or flat? What a great way to recycle cardboard! Why don't the landfills and transfer stations turn it into compost? Maybe no feasible in, say, San Francisco, but we have to pay a BUNcH for fertilizer and need to make our own soil!!!!

One way to use cardboard boxes is to leave them intact & layer them with various components - sort of like lasagna method on a miniature scale. Do this with multiple boxes, placing them next to each other. Around the perimeter of your boxes, layer more components & top the whole thing off. If done in the fall, it should be broken down by spring. This worked successfully for me when I had less material to work with - it allowed me to create an area over time & kept it in place.

Great idea!!! Soil Amendments are really hard to come by and expensive.... sounds like a good treatment for the 'corn and bean patch' over the winter!!!

Carol

There is cardboard and there is 'corrugated' cardboard... the corrugated type, from AC boxes, are supper, especially for worms...'The worms craw in the worms craw out'..........
Well...the non corrugated, like the cartons that soda and beer come in should not be layer on top of each other.
Some soil between each layer will do fine.
I found that most ink used to print cartons for soda and beer are degradable.
I have an old paper shredder and run my 'carton boxes' through it.

Whoa...another goodie to look for on Craigs List!!!

I use corrugated boxes but find they break down faster than I would like, so I put newspapers down first. I've tried the other way around, but for some reason carboard with newspapers on top breaks down faster than newspapers with cardboard on top!

I like to slow down the process because I'm trying to kill Burmuda grass - and that stuff will grow through just about anything! However, once the "green" part of the grass is dead, it makes it easier to dig out the white roots with a spade.

Biggest problem? Getting enough cardboard!

Try your local recycling station or the dump! 'Construction' companies are good sources and so are auto body repair shops. When we moved and I had to package up all of our art, I found an autobody repair shop with lots of BIG pieces of cardboard they received glass in, as well as panels...

Also your local Dollar store is a good source...They flatten the boxes and it is easy to load up a big stack of them...I started out with the boxes I used to pack in for moving...Instead of tossing them, I put them re- flattened in my shed to save for my new beds...Just remember to remove any tape that you used...

HoneybeeNC, I agree that bermuda grass is the very worst to kill out with lasagna gardening. Well, nutsedge is pretty bad too. Both are coming through everywhere in my bed. Will try your method of layering both newspaper and cardboard next time.
DNP

DNP - Use several layers of newspaper. Brown paper bags from the supermarket work well, too. Unfortunately, I have some nutsedge! :(

I am hoping to get to it soon before it takes over. Right now, it's just a small patch that has come in where I cleared out some Burmuda Grass.

(sigh) I keep telling myself: "This is not a bad thing - I need the exercise!"

Too lazy to read thru the thread to find the answer to this (if it is there?)...do you lay the newspapers flat with the cardboard? Do you shred them? Ball them up?

AlohaHoya - my hubby removes the colored pages, and then I lay them flat, several layers thick on top of the dirt/grass. Then I lay down cardboard, and cover it with a heavy layer of leaves, grass clippings, compost, coir - or whatever I have on hand.

Burmuda grass will make it's way up through, although not too thickly, so I have to go back and add more layers of newspaper and cardboard.

I did find that sweet potatoes managed to compete with the smothered Burmuda grass - I think it was because the vines shaded the grass so heavily that it "gave up"

I still have a couple of areas of Burmuda grass to get rid of, but now that the weather is getting cooler, I'm hoping to get rid of it once and for all!

Atta Girl! Persistence!

I've got to find that thread about getting rid of rhizotomous grasses by soaking in a Bokashi solution. If you're able to get the heat in your pile up high enough, it's not an issue, as the heat will kill the roots. But if not, this was a way to deal the death blow: by pickling with Bokashi.

AH - lay the newspaper flat - be sure to soak it, just like you would do with the cardboard.
Another way to utilize the newspaper - create a berm around the area, soak the newspaper & mold it to the top & sides of the berm - sort of using it like a cap for tops & sides. It will help maintain the shape of the berm; the berm will help contain the compostable layers which allows you to build a taller area to layer in.

As we get rain nearly every day I have no problem wetting anything!!!

So, once I make all the layers in this sheet composting/lasagna garden...(throw in some manure, green waste, brown waste, DH etc. - should I just let it sit out in the open (remember, lots of rain here) or should I throw a tarp over it?

Carol

I would cover it after you have finished, but check it often to make sure it doesn't dry out. that's another place i use cardboard: on top of the pile. However - you can get those monsoon type rains there, so a tarp might be your best bet.

Thanks. Hmmmm. Maybe if I cover it with 'dirt', plain old crappy dirt?

plain ol' crappy dirt works real well - go for it!

Crappy Dirt = garden soil in the above context. LOL

Our c.d. is old sterile 'stuff' from the coast up north (originally ash from the old volcanos)...fairly depleated of any nutrients. We have to mix it with lots of organic matter and good stuff to use it in beds. Figured it would do to sit around and get made better by the worms etc.!!!!

My new lasagna bed is doing great - except for the bermuda grass is coming through. Any time in the future I'm dealing with bermuda grass I'm going to use 2 layers of cardboard.

I started pulling out the bermuda grass but I think that will cause more problems, especially where I used newspaper and not cardboard, because pulling the roots causes it to rip through the decomposing newspaper and leaves a bigger "crack" for more bermuda grass to get through.

When you made the statement about adding layers, are you uncovering the original cardboard or paper and adding more paper directly on top of that, or are you adding it on top of all the multiple layers of greens and browns you've put down? Please tell me if what you are doing is working. If I let this go, it would be covered with bermuda grass again in a month.

When I worked with this method for several years I evolved into spot treatment for this type of weed with Round-Up. I used a two inch paint roller very carefully. That got the roots. When I was very carefull none of the poison even got beyond the immediate two inchs where I pulled the roller over a new plant. I figure I was still 98% organic and 2% other. That usually pleased the most of my associates and friends. The absolute purest had five and six kids all trained to be out there pulling hours per day. Our kids helped but were a part of other activies mostly school related.

Finally I never could bring myself to pull difficult grasses and thistles. Pulling only makes more to pull a month later.

docgipe...I use the same method on any of the 'running grasses' and weeds...which will reroot even if you leave a tiny bit. Except I use a paintbrush on the leaves!!! Another way to get them is to

1. Put on a rubber glove
2. Put a cotton glove over it
3. Dip your fingers in the herbecide (RU is a favorite) and pull your fingers/with glove over the whole plant!!!!

4. DEAD GRASS

Carol

I pull back whatever is covering the newspaper/cardboard and add more newspapers/carboard - AFTER pulling as much of the Burmuda grass as I can.

I was in the garden over the weekend, and am happy to report that those areas that are now on their third season have NO BURMUDA GRASS!

The areas that are on their second season have some BG.

I still have areas to tackle for the first time - now that the weather is getting cooler, I see lots of digging with my spade in my immediate future.

As far as I can tell, the sweet potato vines prevented the BG from growing! Perhaps BG needs more light than the vines will allow. I plan to set some sweet potatoes in a "new area" next season just to see if they can really prevent the BG from growing permanently! - Sooo much easier than digging the darn stuff out by hand if it works!

Hmm -- I better contact BocaBob to see if he has anymore Coco Coir.

HoneybeeNC, Thanks.

I spent the day removing bermuda grass from my lasagna bed that is 7 x 70 feet. What a chore! And I know it will grow back. Two or three weeks ago I had carefully used Round Up. Some died. Some didn't. And lots of new came right up through the layers. In fact, BG thrives on that cardboard and other layers. LOL.

Anytime in the future when I'm doing an area that has bermuda grass, I will use 2 layers of cardboard. When I pulled everything back that was on top of the cardboard, the BG was coming right through 12 layers of newspaper and also the other area that had one layer very thick corrugated cardboard. No difference between areas with newspaper and areas with cardboard.

I had thought of doing Round Up and letting it die for about a week and then the cardboard but am afraid it would trap too much of the RU and prevent it from dispersing.

Very discouraging. There just is no easy way to get rid of bermuda grass.

Landscapers come in and put Roundup on the grass the day before they come back and build the bed. They then till the area plant and mulch the following day. A half day for it to begin working is all it really needs. Lawns are often seeded two days after tilling. Doing this there is no problem because germination takes another three or four days. I am speaking of the basic original Round Up in full strengths. Read and follow the label data. Be carefull because there is at least one newer Round Up product that has additional herbicides added. Those labels have long lasting poisons added. They are for driveways and pattio floors not where you want plants to grow from seed.

Dogs_N_Petunias - I have always preferred to garden without pesticides, but even I was tempted to use Roundup on the Bermuda Grass. I even wrote to Scott's to ask how long I should wait before sowing seeds.

However, I chickened out! I decided I had gardened without Roundup for almost sixty years, and one way or another that darn grass is out of here without it!

I feel the same way but sometimes give in and use RU. I have a friend who won't allow her lawn service to use a weedeater to edge around her beds because it throws bermuda grass seed into the beds and starts the viscious cycle!!

One way to evaluate use of RU is from the perspective of what your time is worth.
I do use RU on those weeds which are difficult to eradicate otherwise. The time I would spend on the BG could be better spent in other gardening activities.

Katye, I think you're right. As I was walking my dogs this evening (around and around on our circle driveway), I noticed the bermuda grass coming through the asphalt driveway that a month ago was re-topped with thick layer of tar heated to several hundred degrees and then pea gravel topping and then 1000-lb+ roller. All BG had been removed before that process. All of a sudden the thought struck me that if it can come through asphalt and tar, then I'm spinning my wheels trying to prevent BG with cardboard in my lasagna bed. It just isn't going to work!!! This is BG that's common in Texas, just appears out of the air, it seems. We've never planted any of it. Our lawn is St. Augustine. The cardboard works on St. Augustine but not BG or nutsedge.

RoundUp has a bad rap because it is a chemical. It is very specific in its affectiveness/effectiveness. Glycosophate is totally inert until it hits the leaf and is processed by the plant. If a dog walks on recently sprayed RoundUp and then licks his paws...he 'might' get a tummy bubble...but nothing serious.... I use it on all my 'creeping' weeds...tho' Garlon works better!!!

Carol - tell about Garlon. please!

Regarding chemicals - I know many are opposed to any use whatsoever, and there are others who use them wantonly.
I find the best place for me is to seek balance in what I do. I use RU for tap-rooted & rhizotomous weeds, invasives & the like. I may spray 1-2 times per year. I've tried smothering these types of weeds with carboard/newspaper, vinegar soak, boiling water soak - nothing worked. For all my efforts, I was rewarded with more work later.
Perhaps if I did not work fulltime or, lived on a small piece of land, I might feel differently. I need to use my time wisely since I have so little of it.

Dogs_N_Petunias - You have St. Augustine Grass? That's what we had when we lived in one particular home in South Florida. I didn't think there was anything worse than ST. AG until I met up with BG! I fought ST. AG for ten years and it won!

Unfortunately, there were no Fall leaves available in South Florida to help smother ST. AG, and everything else I tried broke down so quickly in the heat that it was impossible to control. So I just pulled as much as I could of the darn stuff, and planted my veggies along with it.