I can't see how it can do serious harm -- after all I just got my latest purchase from SSV, and though I haven't opened them yet I'm sure that like all the others I've gotten from her they're cut way back and will start showing good growth within a couple of weeks of planting. So plants that have been there a while should do even better, right? I did fertilize and watered deeply and said pretty please.
Having said that, though, it's not like the spring when the clems are emerging in an even playing field, with all the other plants around them equally small. This time of year they've got big plants all around getting in the way of the sun. Sure am looking forward to seeing what happens.
what i will now do differently in my garden
Wicker, I don't think you did any harm at all. One of my Blue Bells (grp 3 from SSV) that I planted this spring had several broken stems, two nodes above ground. Not sure who was responsible, hubby or blue heeler pup (they both looked guilty when questioned), but I pruned BB back, at a node that was about an inch above ground level, and it is coming back fine. Only took a little while for it to rebound and I must say it looks stronger and I like how it is branching better than before it was broken (don't tell anyone, as both husband and dog are really buttering up to me and I need more clem holes dug). So, IMHO, I believe you will be just fine with the pruning and they should bounce back and be just fine.
Nancy
Thanks Nancy! That's good news. Whenever something like that happens here, it's usually the dog or a squirrel, or both. Nobody ever looks guilty enough, though, in my estimation.
Well, well, well, looks like I need to get out my implements of destruction (my Felcos) and have at the Clems. :) Would Alfalfa tea work well for a fertilizer? or Osmocote?
ticker, i can tell you love to prune too!
i think the alfalfa tea is like a boost and osmocote is a slow release, so they would work well together, but i would not do at the same time, maybe do the osmocote if you like to use slow releasers (i don't use slow releasers and have no with experience it) and then the boost a week or two later, or vice versa.
maybe someone who uses slow release and alfalfa tea can chime in here. i use the alfalfa pellets to augment soil and top dressings vs as tea. so no experience with that too.
i am out of the garden till sat, can't wait to get back.....
I'm no expert on this, but I put osmocote down almost everywhere else in the early spring and boost periodically with diluted fish emulsion. But with the clems I use a granular rose fertilizer in the spring and again when I prune, and if they also get a little of the fish stuff when I'm out lugging it around the garden I figure that can't be a bad thing. Have you had good results elsewhere with the alfalfa tea, Diann? I love the sound of it. Tea for plants sounds highly civilized!
Hey -- Ticker rhymes with Wicker. I just realized that. Aren't I smart?
Wicker, you silly goose. :) I've got a bag of Alfalfa pellets, but that's as far as it's made it. :) I will probably do Osmocote and maybe some fish emulsion. But man, that fish stuff really is rank.
And yes, I can be quite dangerous with my felcos, dutch space, etc. :) I like my tools of destruction. You ought to see what I can do with a 3 in 1 tool to a plaster wall. :) LOL Ok, back to the spackle mine... :)
Diann
Hi, people. Just a quick note as I head to the shower to start my day: on the auger, be sure to have a firm grip on that drill as a large auger will jerk you around a bit. I've twisted my arm using ours but they're great!
CG: What's the difference between the types of clems? I haven't had time to read through this whole thread, but I've read a little elsewhere and can't find the definition for the types.
Later, y'all.
Angie
the types are denoted as to blooming time and wether they bloom or old, more woody, or new (same year) vines. also whether they are climbing by grabbing on to structure or need suppport.
so you have
group 1, bloom on old wood from last year. includes atragenes (alpinas and macropetalas) and some ELF (early large flowered)
group 2, bloom on old and usually new wood a little later than the group 1's.
group 3, bloom on new wood only, the year's vigorous new growth. includes the vitacellas, diversafolias and integrefolias etc.
the groups correspond to when they can be pruned for best result.
group 1, rarely to never prune, just clean up damaged vines in winter and immediately after blooming. loss of old wood can effect blooming and size of blowers but does not harm the plant long term.
group 2, prune immediately after bloom period if desired. these can also be treated as a group 3 to delay blooms or encourage more new vines to grow.
group 3, need a hard prune each spring. this means remove all old vines and let the plant start over (as you would with any perennial in your garden in the late winter or early spring)
most clems are climbers, but there are herbacoeus, diversafolia and integrefolas that sprawl , but can be supported to show flowers more upright.
this is off top of head and not meant as concise complete scientific info, but what i would tell you verbally if we were touring around my garden together.
CG: Thanks for that explanation. Now all I have to do is check out the ones I have to see which category they fall under. Thank goodness I don't (yet) have that many!
Later, y'all.
Angie
hemo, also a lot of good info available on the international clematis society and british clematis society websites and you do not have to be member to access those areas......have fun!
Just finally getting caught up on reading threads since I was on vacation. CG, thank you for all this valuable information!
Is it too late to prune my 3's down to the ground now? I'm in zone 4 (new map zone 5)
gold finch, if they have been finished blooming for while i would not prune to first leaf bud or ground as you do in spring.
i would take the top 20% off the hieght of the plant also and deadhead, or more agressive deadheading, which is removing removing the pedicile that has 2 or 3 seed heads on it.(but not the main piece of vine)
al the way to ground mid season after blooming for all 3's may be controversial, altho it is recommened for the diversafolia and integrefolia groups. but not sure how long your s have been out of main bloom period, or how old the plants are or how early your slide to dormancy begins.
so best to go conservatively as your experience and weather guide.
you can't go wrong with the conservative amounts mentioned above in my experience.
Thank you! Some have been finished blooming for a few weeks but many are still blooming. I'll do the 20% off this year and get at it earlier next year.
have fun. fertilize after pruning and deadheading. keep up deep watering thru the growing season are best practice late summer tips.
CG, another question. You may recall that I planted C. Rooguchi and Kilian Donahue this spring. You advised me (rightly so) to cut back by 1/2 and water well. I did and both are growing. In fact, here's a photo of C. Rooguchi blooming July 26. It's been blooming since July 5.
My question is should I prune these two new clems back hard or let them grow until spring and do the deed? I've researched and they're both group 3.
You've helped so many of us here and I thank you from the bottom of my heart. I plan to order Niobe and a couple others as well this fall.
Angie
CG, I have learned so much for all the info that you post. I really appreciate all of the time you take to help all of us. Thank you!!!
thanks you two. appreciate pleasure. anyting i know i have learned the old fashioned way, thru costly error! so i love to share, kid of like a ROI on the obsession....
for rooguchi, let it bloom another week or so, or if they are about shot and not more buds, take it down by 20 to 50% of height. i have a small one blooming now too, i am going to take it down by 50% in a week or so.
hope this is not confusing re killian:
the killian is a type 2, basic care of an established 2 is light prune only after immediately after blooming to re shape or resize if needed. some do not prune 2's much at all. in the spring you can nip and tuck if there are damaged vines, or take it down hard if it seems a straggly weak mess and it will just bloom later. did it bloom at all this year?my instinct is to leave it alone. unless it is blooming now , in which case you can nip off 20% after booms (or bloom) wanes. if not, i would leave it and decide course of action in spring based on how the vines held up and how it looks. 2's can be harder to establish than other groups and my own preference would be to hard prune it next spring and then to continue on with annual type 2 care or prune when vines demand it.
good luck and have fun, and if this is confusing let me know.
CG: Thanks again. DG's plant files shows KD as a group 3, so that's what I was going by. Anyhow, it's not blooming now and it really isn't very big. However, it does have a couple of nice new shoots. I'll check and see where they're coming from, stem or root.
You're my mentor with the clems, CG!
Angie
thanks hemo, i just went to cotw (clematis on the web) when i read your message and double checked it is a group 2 as most of the larger bi colored clems are. when it is young treating it as a 3 may produce a bigger more stable plant however. in my opinion. and when those group 2's are not firmly established they can be vexing. i find the larger bi colors such as nelly, dr ruppel to be inconsistent clems. bi colors that do better for me are piilu (still dies back after blooming usually but i get some nice vines and blooms from them) and carnaby which seems more stable and consisitent than the others.
other bi colors i like are fireworks and carnival, but they are not huge, consistent and stable clems. i still like em tho!
just put a small killian d in myself this spring and i am going to keep it small for a couple of years and see if i can create a good plant out of it.
sounds like your killain d is off to a good start. sometimes when there are new shoots growing fast on a young clem and an older shoot just sitting there not growing, i cut the older one off which seems to help the plant focus on the new growth.
hope you are getting the best of the weather going on, we are down a few inches of rain apparently but it is not a drought and we seem to get an all day rain once a week, which the clems adore. so we cannot complain compared to what it sounds like on the weather in the north west, northeast and texas etc.
Dear CG,
I echo the other responses to your wonderful advice. Thank you so much. I am truly a "clem addict" now. I took your advice and cut back all my clems two weeks ago. They are all vines about two years old. Good news is, about 75% of my about 50 clems are sending up new shoots from the ground. Both 2's and 3's equally. I am glad I took your advice. Should I do any more pruning this year? Keep fertilizing until when? Thanks again. Mary
wow, great results. the plants love a haircut, they feel fresher! perks them up!
will make a big difference next year.
not sure of your fertilizing plan, but i do know it's best to make last one of the season about 6 weeks before first expected hard frost. this is so new growth doesn't get whacked. we usually have a mild nov here, i have had etoile violet and some clems blooming at thanksgiving some years! so i usually do last one by end oct. i find when i fertilize then the plants just store it, no new growth emerges, but this could be different in different climates.
i am fertilizing now and will do a last fall one in oct.
will also use weak liquid fertilizer on peakish clems (yellowish, ones not growing or showing rebound from pruning) as often as i can get to it, but not more than every 10 days. mix weaker than directions, ironite or ironite plus is a good one. there are other good ones i am sure.
i am also testing a new fertilizing method on some clems that i will be posting about too.
most important, keep up deep watering all growing season, thru that last fertilizing or even later. i used to wind watering down too early and the plants have had a better spring when i took better care of them in the fall. rain only counts if it is deep rain to saturate not kiss the top.
thanks for your feedback, appreciate it. love clems and people that grow them!
I cut 6 of mine down to the ground,after reading your post...all are coming back about 6 inches of new growth.... they had good roots to begin with all mine came from S.S.V..I use melorganite,bone meal and super thrive..plus empsom salt and peroxide water..
demstratt....good results. tel me about the peroxide water?i am not familar.
all of my hard pruned ones that i did ion july 18 are showing sign of green withthe diversafolias up about 6 or more inches and the vitacellas and other p 3's showing shoots.
now that it is august, i would caution folks to leave stem up to one or two leaf axils form the ground if a plant needs agressive pruning. i had some pruning left to do this week and left that much stem as growing time is shorter and weather hotter and hotter here which can be stressful. even with the diversafolias, if you missed that mid july window and have stressed out brown foliage that you are itching to prune, take a more cautious approach now that it is august.
i found some bug egg sacs within the heavy foliage of some group 2 and 3 clems yesterday and did some pruning myself to take care of the problem without chemicals and to make sure i did take care of the problem..surgical solution. but left stem up to the leaf axils as mentioned above just to be on the cautious side.
demstratt, next year is going to be amazing with these clems, no? with all this good are you are giving!
Thank you for that good advice. I'll leave two buds per stem when I cut back today.
I just put 2 tbls of peroxide water in a gallon jug as a top drink,do that with all my plants...cut 6 more clematis down today and will see how they do..The others are doing great...I add Turface to all my planting holes too,forgot that...top with fine barks a few inches away..
Do you wait till Spring to cut yours down???I don't and they come back nice and heathy...even got 2 babies from a Multi Blue and they bloomed....I need more whites and reds...a true red:)
demstratt, is the peroxide a fungicide type action? how long have you been doing that?
sounds interesting.
that is great you have mi;tiblue babies.
for a good reds i like huvi, westerplatte and julia correvon. huvi establishes the fastest, weterplatte the second fasterst and julai correvon slightly longer at least form my experience here at hardwick hall. oc course rouge cardinal is a great red too. you need them all!
Guru, don't forget about Rebecca! I planted one about a month ago and it's doing very well so far. I sure hope I get to see a bloom before frost. It was a very mature plant. Hopefully, it will be as red as the advertisements say it is. How is your Rebecca doing?
Sharkey, I planted Rebecca a couple months ago and it bloomed beautifully very quickly. I deadheaded it after bloom but did not cut it back and it just finished blooming again with at least a dozen blooms. Absolutely beautiful! The first go around the blooms were truly red red and very large, with at least 2 dozen blooms. I was really surprised that it was such a true bright red. I also planted Madame Julia C, Rouge Cardinal, Westerplatte and Niobe at the same time. All were beautiful with differing shades of "red" and I truly love them all, but I must say I was so taken with Rebecca that I ordered 2 more from SSV and they arrived just this morning. The second bloom period, the blooms were not so large (to be expected) and not as bright red red, but a little deeper. Absolutely love this one so much I am moving a couple recently planted ones in very visible spots and putting the Rebeccas in their place. If I remember correctly, I believe CG commented on Rebecca a while back and mentioned how much she liked it as well. If this one continues as strong as it did for me so early on, it will definitely be a show stopper. My favorite red so far.
Nancy
mine had one bloom period and it was very red. thanks for reminding me.
mine was from joy creek planted spring 09. the ssv one sounds like it was a bigger plant that the one i put in, but mine is off to a good start. some have said they do not find it as true red as marketed, but for me it was very red. sounds like for you too punkysmawma.
rebecca was my moms name so i plan to take good care of it!
I didn't see Rebecca on SSV's website. I didn't know she had carried it or I would have ordered it as part of my last shipment from her. I have a feeling I will want more than one of these as well.
Sharkey, I ordered the first one early in the season. Thought I had seen it on SSV, but when I went to order it later I did not see it. I emailed SSV and she did have one so that is how I got it. After it bloomed so well again the second time, I thought I would take a chance and see if she could locate any more stuck in all the nooks and crannies of the nursery as she has winding down for the season. I got really lucky and she did find a couple. I received them today and opened the box to air them out, but did not take them out to see if they were as large as the first one I had received. Probably are since all SSV are large. It is very red for me too CG, clearer red than any of the others I mentioned. As I said, I was surprised. I took everyone's advice when they said to email Deb with any questions...guess I got really lucky and asked the right question! Several other emails did not turn out so well however! Being new to clems also Sharkey, I find that what I would order TODAY, if they were all available and after reading about all of the recommendations on DG forum, is different from a few months ago!
I couldn't agree more. I'm learning something new every day--both from my mistakes and from reading these threads. I'm happy for you that Debbie was able to find the Rebecca's for you. She goes out of her way to be accommodating. She also found one for me one time that was supposed to be out of stock.
The only advice I've read on these threads that I haven't taken is for a beginner to start out with Group 3's, and I've had very good luck with my Group 2's so far. I'm sure it's beginner's luck, though. But, when I think about it, my clems get more TLC than my house and even my husband sometimes, so they SHOULD be doing well.
Sharkey, dmail me your address and I will box up one of the Rebeccas and send to you. After all, I really don't need 3 ;-) and it would make me happier to know you have one too! I know how I would feel if I really wanted one and could not find it! I will be leaving in about 1 hour to go to school to organize room (I am a new special education teacher-switched careers) and may not be back in time to mail it today, but ill stop by the post office and get a box and send tomorrow. Let me know if you think that would be ok???
You are really being TOO kind. It's not as if I don't have one Rebecca already. But, I will d-mail you and we'll talk about it. Gosh! You Ohio people are REALLY nice. But, the fact that you are a special ed teacher says a lot. I admire you very much. I retired two yrs ago from a 35 yr teaching career and I know what a tough job you have. You have made my day a great one already with your kindness!
ohioians rock! we rule!
Sooo does Michiganders!!!was in Ohio Sat.and went to see a DG'S garden...WOW,it was beautiful,he has lots of Clems and roses,and!!??!!everything...was in Toledo how far you from there???
depending on where in toledo area as close as an hour and a half i believe. i think you take rt 23 south to the southern part of delaware, ohio is where we are located.
next june i may have a "garden open" day or two around the 10th of june, haven't checked calendar for dates. that is usually a critical mass of many many clems in bloom at once.
Its close to the MI.line...50 miles from my home...your "garden open"sounds like fun...what zone are you in???me 5a...