I wish there was an info sticky here, until then I have a few questions. Actually ya'll know so much I'd probably ask anyway! So here goes;
The pics I see of your hib's are so bright & vibrant, some even look like they'd glow in the dark. How does high heat (90's +) & humidity effect those colors? Are there certain plants better for these conditions? How would I know?
About planting, I'd like to keep mine in pots (I figure I can't put off digging it up for the winter as I have on some things). But will I get better growth if in the ground? My soil has to be amended, I've got bright orange clay, but still the roots would eventually go into the clay, right? I guess the ? is how deep will the roots grow if you have good soil & ideal conditions?
Thanks, debbie
What do you think about a newby buying plugs? Just curious, I'll be mainly buying 4" pots right now. But plugs are a few bucks cheaper, is there going to be a big learning curve? Is there a propagation thread somewhere?
newby ??'s
Tropical hibiscus are fine with heat & humidity--they blooms don't last as long when it's hot and they probably would appreciate a bit of afternoon shade, but other than that they should be fine. Colors of some cultivars will vary depending on temperature and humidity--I notice difference between cool weather and warm weather blooms, and if you watch pics of the same cultivars posted by people in Florida vs California you will also see differences there. They're always pretty though no matter what. If you're getting tropicals, you will need to keep them in pots and overwinter them indoors or in a greenhouse, they won't survive your winters. There are hardy hibiscus too, but I think the pics you've been admiring are all the tropical sort. The hardy ones are pretty, but you don't get quite the same color variations as the tropicals. As far as plugs, I can tell you that I have not had good luck with them so I would recommend spending a little more and getting a larger plant, but I'm sure there are some people who've had good luck with the plugs so it's really up to you. You'll be waiting longer for blooms though.
Hi Debbie
If its bright vibrant colors you must be talking about hybrid hibiscus. They will grow fine in the heat and humidity since they are tropicals. Many/most of them bloom in the summer but usually not as frequently as when the temps are in the 70's and 80's. The bloom coloration is pretty true to form all year round. The bloom colors on many varieties are more vivid when the temps are in the 50's, 60's and 70's. Most blooms stay open one day if the temps are hot, but may stay open 2-5 days when the temps are cooler. Every variety is slightly different to the next when it comes to how fast they grow, how often they bloom, but most all of them will make you happy.
I would recommend that for your climate you are best to grow them in pots. Digging them up each fall and bringing them indoors will disturb the roots a bit and would be quite a bit of extra work. Another advantage to having them in pots is they are more mobile. Generally they will not grow as large in pots but I wouldn't consider that a negative. They can still get fairly large in pots as long as they are repotted up a size when they get larger and you start seeing roots growing through the bottom of a pot.
If growing them in pots make sure there is good drainage at the bottom of the pot. You don't want them to sit in water. There are many types of soil you can grow them in as long as the soil drains well and isn't a heavy water holding soil. I make my own mix using: 1 handful compost, 1 handful potting mix, 1 handful potting bark, 1 handful perlite. They key is having something like bark or perlite added to the soil to promote good drainage.
Personally, I think you are better off to go with the 4" pots or larger sized plants to start with. Like any plant it can be a little bit trickier to start with a plug size. A larger sized plant is more developed and a little more forgiving if you make a mistake or two along the way. Once you get everything mastered and feel comfortable growing them, then going with some plugs would be a great way to expand your collection and also save you some good money.
I hope you find this information helpful and if you have any other questions, just ask. There are lots on nice friendly people on this forum who would be more than willing to help you with your questions/concerns.
Regards,
Jon
Exactly ecrane. Were definitely on the "same page". LOL
Liz and Jon you both seem to be on the same tone, great answers and tips for debbie's questions, thank you for helping the newbies with your knowledge and experience, love to see when the more experience people help the less experience ones, believe me, I've learned a lot from you people. and one thing that I learned first is that you learn something new every day.
Wilfred
Yes, we're always learning from each other all the time. It's also especially valuable when someone may be having an issue with a certain variety of Hibiscus and then you find out, on here , you're not alone. An example would be a couple of weeks ago when Kathy mentioned her Hibiscus "Rum Raisin" blooms were not fully opening in hot weather. At that point Robert and myself realized it was a trend and not just our own plants.
Jon
Thanks everyone. Great advice from everyone & thanks for sharing with me. Some forums don't, so I'm happy to see such friendly, caring people.
I've ordered 15 plants from the Dupont co-op, hopefully to arrive soon, and I've placed bids on some of the ones David (plant_maniac) has running in e-bay. I'm also waiting to hear from 2 more vendors about availability. Just so you'll know, I don't have the first plant yet but I'm so blown away by the beauty of all your pics, it was love at first sight.
What is "plant bark"? It's not mulch, is it? I don't recall seeing it in any of the places I shop (big box/walmart/southern states).
Will vermiculite do as good a job as perlite? I have a bunch of it, but I can get perlite if it's better. I typically use Miracle Grow potting mix, mixed with: humus & manure; coffee grounds; whatever else I may have hanging around. How does that sound, what should I switch up?
Last ? for now, when I get the 4" pots in, should they go into qt. containers? How large a pot do most of you eventually use? I feel silly asking some of these ?'s, but I've spilled my newby guts so might as well ask. Thanks for answering.
Hi Debbie,
Excellent advice given!!!
I bump 4" pots to gallons. I use black pine bark mulch (Black velvet mulch) Maybe you can get it at a local garden center I mix both perlite and vermiculite mixed in, but thing is the pots dry out quickly.I drip most of mine so it's not a problem here.
I never use miracle grow potting soil. It's too heavy for me here and does not seem to drain well. Others may have had better luck. I use MG to fertilize my hand fertilezed plants.
If you want to get the fancy hibiscus fertilizer mix you can go to this website http://www.sungro.com/products.php They have a link that show locals in your area where you may can try to get it or they may can order it for you and you usually dont have to pay the shipping. It comes in on their trucks. 25 pounds usually under $50.00 not sure what retail prices are though.
Mine end up in 10" pots to 12" Pots and a few in 15 gallon containers that are heavy and hard to move.
Not much advice or help I've given here but I hope it helps.
Robert
Down here in South Florida I use bags labeled "Orchid Bark" that I can buy at Lowes or Home Depot. When I looked at the contents its made with Western Fir. Its just small pieces of bark that are not ground as finely as mulch is. I've never heard of using mulch as a substitute, so I can't really make a judgment as to whether that is ok or not. I try to refrain from giving advice when I'm not 100% sure if its correct. I've heard of people using vermiculite instead of, or with perlite. I just chose perlite as it is easier to find down here. I've always used Miracle Gro potting mix, but NOT the "Moisture Control" Miracle Gro. when I first started down the "Hibiscus Road" I was using "Moisture Control Miracle Gro" and had all kinds of yellowing leaf issues. I think that stuff holds in too much water. When I switched to just the regular Miracle Gro that issue resolved itself. I would think everyone on here has experimented with different kinds of formulas for creating their own potting mix. After about 6-9 months I settled into the formula I mentioned earlier because its working good for me and the products used in it are readily available down here.
I generally "pot up" one size when it's time to repot. If its in a 4" pot then I go to a 6" pot next. You kind of have to look at each plant you receive and determine whether it needs to be repotted soon. You will notice there can be a difference in size in each plant you receive. Some will be slightly larger and will need to be repotted fairly soon so that they have more room to grow and will not fall over in wind. Sometimes I'll even receive a very large sized plant in a 4" pot and go directly to a 8" pot. It will quickly outgrow the 6" pot so I just do it this way to save myself some extra work. The largest pot I'm using on some of my older ones is a 12" pot. Personally I pot up a size when either the roots are beginning to grow through the bottom holes or when the plant is toppled over in winds.
The most important thing to do when you first receive your plants is to slowly acclimate them to 1/2 day to full sun over the course of 10-20 days. It's summer now so most of them will wilt if you just immediately place them in full sun. I start with 2-4 hours of sun for 3-7 days and then go to 4-6 hours for a week or so. After that I'll try full sun and see how it goes. Most will do fine and a few will show you (wilting leaves) that they're not quite ready. If they are wilting a bit when you introduce them to full sun and the soil is still damp don't water them more. The water is not the issue....its the full sun.
I've asked for some advice in other forums and haven't received much response. I try to remember how that made me feel and hope that we all don't do that to new people on here.
Best regards,
Jon
Thanks Jon,
I knew I left alot out. Just one of those days. I had to have my IVIG Drip yesterday and it kicked my butt!!!
Robert
Howdy Robert. We were both typing away at the same time. Like I said, I'll bet we all have our own formula for what works best for us. LOL If it works....don't mess with it!!!
Jon
Hey Jon,
I think we had talked a couple of years ago about mixes, maybe email or on the phone. Your doing pretty much exactly what I used to do. I had excellent results too. Also, I use orchid bark too. Be sure it it the small 1/4" not the larger. Still have a large bag of 3/4" rotting away here LOL I was an Idiot and ordered the wrong stuff. I hated not to get it since I special ordered it. Another grower here in texas turned me on to Black velvet mulch. I tried it and loved it. Just dries out quick. Have to set the drips for 30 munites 2 times daily 7am & 7pm.
Debbie,
I never break up the root balls. Not sure about what others do.
Robert
This message was edited Jun 12, 2009 12:06 PM
No touchy the root balls here either. I'm having a little bit of a dilemma as I'm getting low on the small sized orchid bark and can't find it around anymore. Not a crisis yet...just a little dilemma. This issue seems to pop up at least once a year on some type of gardening product. That's why I mentioned trying to use things that are readily available at more than one retailer.
Can and of you find perlite in bigger quantities??? All I've been able to buy is the $4 + bag at WM or Lowe's and that is not a very big bag.
I just start experimenting with mixing soil and haven't found the right formula yet but I'm experimenting based on your suggestions. Not sure if I can find orchid bark; will have to look. I've been using pine bark mulch.
Hiya Patty
I would think you should be able to find bark for potting orchids in your area. I buy mine at either Lowes or Home Depot. I've never seen huge bags of perlite either. I just buy 3 or 4 bags at a time of the Miracle Gro Perlite at Home Depot Or Lowes. One thing I learned when I started down "Hibiscus Road" a couple of years ago was to settle into one formula when creating a potting mix for hibiscus. I was experimenting a bit too much. I then had mixes that were drying out at different rates. It made it more difficult to figure out when each individual plant needed water. Some were still damp, some drier and some bone dry all at the same time. I was a much happier camper when there was more consistancy in the soil used and the rate of drying out was also about the same.
Jon
So true Jon, its better having them drying out at the same time, much easier to control watering.
I think the only way to get bigger bags of per-lite is to buy from the nursery suppliers if you have any close to your area if you can, its also much cheaper. I used to have one close to were I live but it moved somewhere else and I don't know were it's located now, what a bummer!
Wilfred
Hi Patty,
If you can find a SunGro distributor in your area they have the HUGE BAGS and they are very inexpensive as Wilfred said. See if they can order it in. When I am in a bind a local feed and supply store gets them for me. Anything I need from BWI they can get.
http://www.sungro.com/products.php
I think you're right Wilfred. It would be cheaper in bulk. Yes, its much easier to be able to water everything when they're drying out at the same rate. I kind of learned that the hard way a couple of years ago as I was overwatering one plant and underwatering the next because the soil mixtures were very different. I even lost a few hibiscus because I was overwatering them back then. I think we're probably all guilty of that at some point and time. LOL We just learn from our mistakes and become better at what we do.
LOL Jon I do it all the time on some. Now I watch for them to wilt LOL like BLACK DRAGON... I killed 6 or 7 before I got it right. And to get it right I threw and I mean threw the 5 gallon pot out into the yard and told it if you live you live and if not so be it. I had 3 in the pot and 1 died. thats why I threw it. I gave up on it. This was 2 years ago. I think it took me seriously. Still growing strong and wild. I get 4 to 6 blooms a day on her and water her every 3 days. LOL And who said tough parenting does not work LOL
Robert
How funny. Now it's sounding like this thread is "confession". Oh well...might as well let it all out. I murdered...oops...I mean killed two "Black Dragon's" before I got it right. I just learned to ignore it also and it's been doing much better since. I guess some of the Hibbies are into "tough love"
Jon
Funny, I could have sworn I saw large bags of both Perlite and Vermeculite at my local Home Depot a couple of weeks ago. They were in the area where the 2 CU foot bags of soil are, not where the smaller bags of soil are. In my store, those are in two different places. It might be worth checking it out. Then again, it might just be a 'California thing', right Jon?
My Black Dragon is on the verge of blooming for the first time. I'm waiting...(foot tapping, fingers drumming)
d
Yep, you Californians must garden like crazy and go through tons of perlite. A lot of Floridians wimp out in the summer and don't do much cause it's too hot. We just stay inside all day and get ready to watch "America's Got Talent" or the "Alligator Wrestling Channel"
You'll be amazed when that Black Dragon blooms the first time. It has gorgeous deep tones and silver streaks in the middle of the bloom. You'll see why it was the Hibiscus Of The Year a few years ago. It can be very challenging to grow/keep alive at times...but well worth it.
Jon
Hey Jon,
I thought Californians harvest it from the hurricanes that rip us apart. I still cant find 11 sacks of perlite and 8 sacks of vermiculite. They are white with green writing and say Sun-Gro.Had HypnoticBloom tags on them. If you see em there you know where they came from LOL
I agree about black dragon 2 1/2 years ago I'd have told you to get it over with and toss it now so it does not break your heart. GGGRRRRRRRR Not really. A real beauty. Jon is right, You will love her!!!
Robert
Please, those bags are so light in weight they probably haven't even landed yet!!! I'll bet the National Weather Service can probably pick them up on their radar.
WHAT!!!..... NOW I HAVE TO BE LOOKING UP AND WEAR A HELMET! don't want to get hit on the head by one of those while watering my hib.
Thanks guys for making me laugh a while.
Wilfred
LMAO!!!
Oh well might as well confess, MAFO quite a while ago thanks to this tread, hope I can find some crazy glue.
Wilfred
Lol, you guys are funny! Who got into the cooking sherry?
what a riot! This may be the forum to beat all forums!
Read the suggestions on the MG moisture control too late, I picked up a big bag from Sams yesterday. I knew I stopped getting it for some reason, and now I remember, I believe it was the reason for the death of some 4 tiny roses. Yep, soil way too heavy, so back to town Mon or Tues, maybe I'll find the orchid bark &/or the black velvet then too. Anyone used the Humus & Manure mix? I 've got a bunch of it hanging around, but would the manure burn?
Thanks for the tip on staying with one way to mix. I'd of never thought about that at this point, so that'll save me some headaches. No Black Dragon heading my way, but I did get a Black Dream (no idea now what it looks like). Need to go look up those that hibs I have coming & "make a list" (thanks Wilfred) I'm always duplicating, especially those plants I keep killing. So yes, any practical, common sense suggestions are much needed, cause I just don't get it. Thanks everyone!
(alligator wrestling...really?)
Hi Debbie
Just look for some kind of small sized bark that you can mix into your soil. Every part of the country will probably have different kinds of bark depending on what is grown there. I've never heard of manure burn. Has anyone else? I'm sure mixing in some humus will do just great also. I noticed that one online company (hiddenvalleyhibiscus.com) uses humus in the potting soil they use and sell. As everyone has said its all about keep the soil mix you put together fairly light with added components that promote good drainage.
By the way, did you know we have 5 million alligators in Florida. Seriously...we do. You can always see some hanging out when you drive across "Alligator Alley" (Interstate 75 that goes through the Florida Everglades from Ft Lauderdale to Naples). Chomp chomp
Jon
Roberts picture of a Black Dream...Black Dragon's cousin
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=6614276
Thanks for the link. I can definitely see the relationship to Black Dragon. I wonder if that means that Black Voodoo is a cross between Black Dragon X Voodoo Queen (or more likely perhaps Voodoo Magic).
Jon
Thanks for the link and yes, it's a beautiful hibiscus, isn't it!
Think it got it now on the bark, the small size adds texture, volume & breathing room, right? I'll add it at the rate of equal parts with potting mix, compost, perlite or vermiculite (& probably add some coffee grounds & humus/manure). Mushroom compost ok?
Jon, where are those alligators you talking about hanging from?
no, now I get it. You meant hanging around like in the road, peoples yards, that kind of thing? If that's true, all this time I thought those thin slithering things around here were scary enough. Sheesh.
Hey debbie,
Beware of those manures high in nitrogen. Too much can burn the roots. Especially the Cow manure. At least it does down here. You know they have alligator wrestling in florida and we have rattlesnake round-ups LOL at least in west texas We have gators here in southeast texas. And just close enough to la. to learn how to cook them LOL
Robert
Sounds like a good mixture to me. The gators are mainly in the Everglades, but they occasionally stray a little further east in the canals or the man made lakes. Sometimes they end up on someones dinner plate. I tried eating alligator nuggets once. It wasn't really my thing though. Like everything else weird that people will try to eat, we always say it tastes like "buck buck".
Jon
Exactly. We were both typing and on the same track at the same time...again. LOL
Make sure you keep those gators over there, don't want any more over here, around 20 years ago they were selling them in some pet-shop as pets in fish-tanks, the thing is the people who brought them and when they could no longer handle them they started to throw them in the river without anybody knowing it, ten years later some river had hundreds of them and some people almost got eaten by them for not knowing they were there just waiting. Funny thing though, all of a sodden some places where trying to sell gator meat for lunch, yucky! Now we still have the gator problem in some areas, its hard to cash them all, especially the baby ones that soon grow and start all over again beside dilling with the 5 foot Panamanians iguanas some one else decided to bring over here. Last thing I herd was that they found a dead body of a 6 foot camona dragon in one of our rain forest, My God! what is it with this people and giant lizards.
p.s. at leas your gators didn't like to eat the hibs like those darn panamanian iguana.
Wilfred
I don't think the gators liked what we just experienced at 4PM this afternoon. The worst thunderstorm with hail that went on for about 25 minutes. Here is what the hail looked like on the roof...and this was after it had been melting for at least 15 minutes. The front yard was solid white briefly.
Jon
Hail??? in June??? in Florida??? Is the weather wacky or what? Actually, it's probably all of Robert's perlite and vermeculite coming home to roost. Just wait until it all melts Jon, maybe you'll be able to harvest a stash of perlite on your roof.
Are your hibs ok?
This is hilarious, can't stop LOL!, poor Robert and his flying Perlite and vermiculite.
Jon, like dee said, are your hibs OK.?
Wilfred