Please post a photo of your 2nd Year Tiki Torches. Please include your Zone. I would love to see how large they are and how many bloom stems they have. I want to see how close they are to that plant tag. That tag made it look like multiple, huge blooms! I'll post a pic of mine this weekend.
If you have a plant tag and no plant, post that. I think this could be interesting to see. I'm curious what zones performed the best, etc.
2nd Year Tiki Torch Photos
I already posted this but will put it in your post with all the others too. The post in back is a 4x4 for size comparison. The plant is about 18-20 inches tall. This is z6 and we had a lot of snow cover this past winter. The spring hasn't been terribly warm except for a couple of really hot days. More clouds than sun lately. Started as a small plant last year(4" pot) and had two or three blooms as I recall. I can see at least one bud already. I thought I had two TT but one was mislabeled and was either Summer Sky or Sunset. It is not here anymore.
This message was edited May 29, 2009 6:17 PM
Here is my "Tiki Torch" as of today. I've had the plant since approximately July 2008.
Jon
And I'm in Zone 10
Isn't it funny the difference in color between the two. Yours has that nice dark summer green and mine still has that light spring green color. Guess all that warm you have makes a big difference. Oh and it was three blooms last year. As I recall they lasted a long time and held much of the color without fading.
Can I trade ya my foliage for your blooms. LOL Your blooms look much better than mine. Perhaps mine are smaller because of the heat down here from May-Oct. It actually has bloomed more times this year so far compared to all of last year. It only had a few blooms from July-end of the year. It appeared dead from Jan-March and then started to grow. There is also a little secondary plant (at least thats what I think it is) growing just a couple of inches to its left.
Jon
Jon I saw on the terranova site that heat can force small plants into dormancy. An odd thing also I noticed dormancy is not required for TT but is for M&C and TS. Also they recommend protection for fall shipped plants over winter. You would not need to worry about that I guess. LOL
http://www.terranovanurseries.com/wholesale/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=420
http://www.terranovanurseries.com/wholesale/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=478
Here's a pic of one of my Tiki Torches I just took (with my foot for size reference). They grew and bloomed nicely last year, but it's too early for them to have buds yet. I also just relocated them which might set them back this season.
Thanks for the information. I much appreciate your efforts to help me out. My biggest challenge, I guess, is just getting them to do well here in Zone 10. Most every one of the echinacea are listed as only through zone 9 in the south. I've read things like "they need dormancy" and will simply "bloom themselves to death' in my zone. All of mine, except Echie "Sunrise", seem to go into some form of dormancy down here in the winter. They don't necessarily die back like many things do in the north, they just stop growing and blooming for about 4-5 months. Eventually the foliage starts to dry up and it usually occurs when new foliage starts to grow in March and April. Once there is enough brand new growth, then I will cut back the old foliage. Perhaps I'm also fortunate in that when they're dormant they don't need as much water. That just happens to coincide with our "dry season" which runs from late October through mid May. I've also noticed that half day sun down here is much better. Tiki Torch and about 8 others are in a spot where its almost full sun. They perform ok, but the ones on the side of the house or in the back yard seem to do much better. I'm almost 100% positive and would admit that they do not perform as well down here in South Florida. I just like them enough and don't mind if the results are less than ideal. It's definitely a learning experience since there isn't much information on attempting to grow them down here and no one down here sells them.
Jon
They're looking great midwest tyro. At least you wanted your foot in the photo. LOL I can't tell you how many photos have my feet in the way. I keep doing it over and over again.
Did any of you get your plants from Territorial Seed? I got several there. They were tiny. I bought some at a local nursery this year. I'm hoping they return next year. They look much fuller than those from Territorial Seed.
Mine was from WFF. The other one that was mislabeled was from Dutch Gardens. Last time I order from them. They have sent wrong plant or substituted too often for me to take a chance on them again. I only ordered it from them because the ones I had ordered from Garden Crossing were not shipped due to weather problems at the supplier or something like that, and I did not want to wait another year. Turned out I did have to wait anyway.
here's a picture of my tikis. there's a plant that was stuck into the ground directly from the plug tray last year in september on the left and 3 more directly from the 72 (tiny) plug tray in march this year on the right. you can see the one from last fall is much bigger and already blooming but the three from march are coming along nicely.
They look good to me. I notice you guys up north are getting longer stems on your blooms compared to mine. None of my stems have been longer than 4 or 5 inches.
Jon
Greenthumb- that looks tiny for a second year plant. I don't think they like it here in Tennessee. Everyone up north seems to have nicer plants. My single returned plant has two buds to bloom but the plant looks worse than a first year pink double delight that's sick. LOL.
Nah. I would think that Tennessee and Echinacea are probably a good match. You are the home of the "Rocky Top Coneflower".
I think these growers are shipping these too soon. The plants I received were tiny. These were all planted last spring. I'm trying some in my new flower bed. I bought them at a local nursery this year. They were bigger than my year-old plant. It all probably has to do with tissue culture labs. I wish someone would sell divisions! They would do much better, at least mine have.
Luckily, I have rooted 4 cuttings of Tiki Torch that are doing better than the plants I wasted my money on.
You could be right. Some are probably selling them too fast, but we consumers are part of the equation. We purchase them and generally want them sooner, not later. Once retailers see the demand is there, the race is on to get them out first and sell your plants. Afterall, you have to have sales to be profitable.
At least you have the knowledge and use it multiply your collection and to give yourself other options to make it work out for you. That is a definite plus.
Jon
If I get plugs or very small perennials I always grow them on in a pot with good quality potting mixture until they are a decent size before putting them in the ground. I lost a lot of plants before I started doing this. The small sizes are usually cheaper or may be all that's available and the extra step has been worth it as far as plant survival and vigor. I'm used to doing this because I buy a lot of band size roses where this has to be done so for me it's not a big deal, but if you're expecting a plant you can put right in the ground or don't want to hassle with them, I can certainly see the problems with getting the small plants.
Totally agree. Nothing goes directly into the ground here also. I usually wait at least 1-2 months before doing so. That's why it looks like I grow many of them in pots. It's just a temporary stage for the most part. I have a feeling most of the people here in the forum probably do it the same way.
Jon
echinaceamaniac, my tiki isn't a second year plant. it was a tiny plug stuck in the ground in late september last year just to see how it would do over the winter with benign neglect in our zone 6b/7a garden. the picture is its first bloom.
i agree, growers are challenged to get the plants out - fast. I don't use hormones or other 'special' treatments to force the plants. The only thing I do 'special' is give them extended lighting in the greenhouse during the early growing season to help them get established in their pots while the temperatures are still cool and the days are short. In my experience, that makes for better plants overall that will outperform the 'forced to look good for sales in may' plants in the long run.
I have to say that, generally, I am a 'benign neglect' type gardener. i prefer plants that will look good without needing lots of care and attention. I grow almost every coneflower on the market somewhere in the garden and most have returned for me every year. needing no extra waterings or fertilizer (we top-dress with compost in the spring), they certainly fit the bill for low-maintenaince with great looks for us.
I can say with certainty that growing coneflowers in pots is more of a challenge than growing them in the ground. They are long daylight plants, require a slightly acidic mix and are finicky when they get too much water. They are also finicky in what type of pot they prefer, generally for me, the deeper and narrower = the better! I have been growing them now for three years in a greenhouse environment. I don't grow a few, I grow thousands of them every year. I have learned much after attending classes at trade shows and picking the brains of people much more knowledgeable than I. this year is my first one with very few losses and thriving plants. there's lots more to learn and it's so much fun to put some of the info from research into practice and see it actually make the plants perform better! I am continuously learning more -- from reading my journals and from all of the gardeners that are so generously sharing their experiences here in forums and in emails. thank you.
This thread is meant for 2nd year plants. I meant compared to Echinacea Pink Double Delight, Tiki Torch is a very slow grower. I've seen first year plants of Pink Double Delight with 20 or more blooms. You're lucky if this Tiki has 2-3 Tiki Torches. I was wanting to see how many blooms, etc. that people who actually ordered these are getting.
I do think I'm having better luck with locally bought plants. I'd be curious which ones above were mail order. I think I'm going to try and find more locally so I can inspect them before buying. Had I seen those Tiki Torch plants I received, I wouldn't have bought them.
Also, it is amazing how many look better up north. I'm planting my rooted cuttings in different sun exposures so I can keep them cooler. It has worked for other cultivars. I'm going to try some of AB Cultivars' Hot Papaya. They seem to have the best-growing plants.
This message was edited May 30, 2009 9:59 AM
Maybe its impossible to expect each variety of Echinacea to grow and bloom at the same rate. Each one is genetically different so they are going to act/react slightly different also. I collect some hybrid Hibiscus and they are all very different from one another when it comes to growing and blooming traits. As children we didn't all grow at the same rate.
I would agree that growing Echinacea in pots permanently is a bit more challenging. At least from my little bit of experience it is. I even make more holes at the bottom of containers so that the moisture will drain out even better. I've noticed that deeper pots are also much better and agree with you GreenThumbs.
Sure there are advantages to purchasing plants locally at a garden center or nursery. It doesn't necessarily mean they were always grown locally, but the chances of that are higher. Wouldn't we all like to be able to look at a good supply of them and make our own choice. That can be a huge advantage. Personally I wish there wasn't as much hormone or special treatments being used on store bought plants, but can totally understand why some growers do it. Your livelihood depends on selling them. It just gives many of us unrealistic expectations down the line. We expect them to perform at the same level without that kind of treatment.
All of us are still learning and will always be. At least we have outlets and forums like this to share our experiences and information. The age of the computer has made things much easier in that aspect.
Jon
Jon - it wouldn't be so bad if Terra Nova didn't have those misleading pictures on their site. I have never seen a Tiki Torch plant look anywhere close to as good as their photos. I think they picked blooms and arranged it to look like they have more and bigger blooms. The blooms on these do not look as large as those photos. I've not seen one like them yet.
Notice that their Pink Poodle pictures never show the plant. It looks like an arrangement of blooms. I don't like being deceived.
I highly doubt most people are going to pay 10-20 dollars for one Echinacea plant they must keep in a pot. Echinaceas are supposed to be garden plants. If this extra care is required, consumers need to be warned. People should be informed that these aren't vigorous like other Echinaceas.
Yes, there is quite a bit of deception out there in order to sell plants and it's not just Terra Nova. Some of their Echinacea's are pretty good though. My biggest gripe is when pictures are digitally altered to change the shading or colors of the blooms. I still like "Tiki Torch" even though it doesn't seem to perform as well for me. I like the color of the blooms. I'm hoping that "Tangerine Dream" and "Flame Thrower" are better orange performers but won't really know until next year at the earliest...I would think.
The majority of people will not pay $10-$20 for any kind of smaller sized plant and even more so these days. I'm willing to pay it though when it's something I really like. I do think that hybrid Echinacea are a bit overpriced when you consider the size of the plant you are getting for the price. But as long as the demand for them is on the same level of the supply this will not change.
Jon
It has been raining and crummy weather here for several days but the sun is out now so I went to check TT. I counted at least 9 buds forming. The blooms it had last year were darker orange here than their pic and were the size advertised, about 4 inches wide. Perhaps the orange and yellow ones are slower to mature than the pinks. They may require 2 or 3 seasons to really show their stuff like many perennials do. I am anxious to see how this puppy looks this year with all those buds starting.
You're right. My expectations were way too high last year when a good percentage of mine were in their first year. The majority of them are showing far more potential for this year and are bigger than they were at any point during last summer/fall. Lots of rain here also although its now the rainy season here. It has rained here at some point of the day for 15 consecutive days counting today.
My expectations were low after the Big Sky series. I was kind of hoping these would come back, but 1 out of 4 was a big let down.
I talked to a person who grew Tiki Torch commercially...She said out of 120 plants, only 7 over-wintered!
Have you seen one that looks like the picture on their site?
http://www.terranovanurseries.com/wholesale/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=420
I've never seen one with that many blooms or a single bloom that nice. I think they cut some stems and put them in a vase. Notice how the bottom of the picture is cropped and you can't see the plant. So far, not one picture posted looks like the plant on the tag.
I thought tissue culture was supposed to produce plants identical to the original. These are not the same style or shape, size, etc. blooms as that plant on their site.
Greenthumbs, I looked at your photo again. Your bloom looks distorted. It has uneven petals and some are quilled. Would you be satisfied if you ordered a plant at the prices these cost and you got blooms like that? Mine last year had petals like that too.
Here's the pic from their site so people can see the comparison of the photos we have to their official photos of the plant. Notice the bottom is cropped so you can't tell this is fake...
I got a response from Terra Nova:
They said to make only buy these in gallon-sized pots!
They said to remove all blooms asap the first year! SERIOUSLY!
They said if the plant is small when purchased it won't have reserves to make it through winter!
This plant is not a worthy garden plant. I hope I have helped keep someone else from spending their hard-earned money on this mutant!
Does anybody have a Tiki Torch that has the huge blooms these are supposed to have? I have yet to see one that looks anywhere close to Terra Nova's pictures. The blooms are not big at all.
Mine is beginning to look more promising recently. It's finally beginning to develop some longer stems with buds on them. Last year it was always just a short compact plant.
Jon
Mine just out and out didn't bother to come back. I bought it as a nicely blooming plant from PDN...The flowers on it looked like they were supposed to when I got it...It sulked in the garden...Maybe they need to be greenhouse babied to look like the pictures.
Jon - Please post a photo if you have a bloom that looks like the Terra Nova pics. I do like the color but I'm hoping the blooms will get larger if the plant survives winter. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
LOL. If I get one like the Terra Nova photos then I'll take a picture. I have a couple of blooms right now, but they are the typical smaller and shorter blooms. It looks like its going/trying to start growing taller. If that actually happens then I'll take a photo. I did see quite a few "Tiki Torch" plants in gallon containers at a nursery near my parents house in NY State in early June. I was surprised because they were very tall plants with long stems and quite a few buds....albeit they hadn't bloomed yet.
Here are some additional photos of my second year tiki. The first few blooms were large. These are now fading and looking a bit down. The sequential blooms have been smaller. These early blooms were as large as any other echs. I am in southern ohio, zone 6.
This message was edited Jun 30, 2009 10:05 PM
This message was edited Jun 30, 2009 10:13 PM
Smaller flowers
