Help - will neem oil kill Beneficial Nematodes

Our squash have been overrun with Cucumber Beetles and now were are even seeing a lot of Squash Bugs.
Yesterday evening and this morning we drenched the plants and their mounds with Neem & Soap solution.
Today we were lucky enough to find Beneficial Nematodes at a local garden center, we were getting ready to hit the vegetable patch with it this evening when the question hit us... "will the neem kill the nematodes?"
I called the company, but it's a holiday weekend and nobody that could answer the question was in the office, just some poor receptionist who, sweet as could be, did not know.

Will Neem kill our nematodes? Can we apply it now or do we need to wait?

Thanks so much for your help
Dove

Although neem is organic, it's not a particularly selective pesticide so I wouldn't be surprised if it could hurt the nematodes (although I don't know for sure that it does). But if you can find a way to keep the neem on the plant leaves rather than in the soil then you should be able to use them both. Since you've already applied the neem I'm not sure how long it would stick around in the soil, but you might want to wait a little bit just to be safe before you add the nematodes (unless you get some info that for sure it won't hurt them).

Yeah, I wouldn't be concerned if we had only sprayed the plants, but we drenched the soil trying to kill the larvae.

Yipee! I found the right set of search words and came up with an answer... what a relief!

Step 2 says one will not harm the other!

Controlling Grubs - Larvae Control

1. Treat with a combination of Milky Spore and NemaSeek beneficial nematodes in either the spring or the fall. The nematodes help to distribute the Milky Spore. This combination of organisms also works synergistically to most effectively control the grubs. Milky Spore only has to be applied once.

2. If your larval infestation is severe, apply Grub Beater as well. The active ingredient (neem) is not harmful to either beneficial nematodes or the bacteria in Milky Spore.

3. Treat again with NemaSeek Beneficial Nematodes six months after your first application to further distribute the Milky Spore and to eliminate newly developing grubs.

Thank you ecrane for your efforts to help, I appreciate it.

Dove

Glad you found some info--that's good news that it won't bother the nematodes.

Dove
Why are you recomending NemaSeek Beneficial Nematodes?
Is it better than other Nematode products?
Also is Grub Beater the brand name is is it widely available?
I need to do something FAST and need a product that won't kill Milky Spore!

Hi CR,
We picked up some Beneficial Nematodes because the cucumber beetles and squash bugs were destroying our squash plants. They did the same last year, out of 8 plants we probably only got a dozen or so squash.
Neem hardly effects them, maybe makes them limp a bit.... but as a soil drench it was suppose to kill the larvae. That's what we were doing (sometimes twice a day) until we found the nematodes. It's amazing how after 1 application they have already cut down the beetle population to just a few here and there.

What we found out was that the nematodes will seek out and kill the larvae of many soil dwelling pest. An added plus is that they some how help spread the milky spore.
So no it does not harm the milky spore, it makes it more effective.

Any supplier of Beneficial Nematodes should be fine, I wasn't really recommending one over the other... that was just where I got my info from.

What's eating what in your garden now?

Theres *always* something eating something around here! ;o)
I think I may be too late but trying to kill off European Rose Chafer grubs.
Little destructive scarab beetles that eat well...roses of course!

Beneficial nematodes can be used to combat European chafer grubs.

http://www.nysaes.cornell.edu/ent/biocontrol/pathogens/nematodes.html

I don't think it's too late to break the life cycle. As long as there are beetles, the beetles are laying eggs in the soil and the eggs are pupating into larvae.
http://www.buglogical.com/beneficialNematodes_control_soilDwellingPests/beneficialNematodes.asp

hi folks!

Im new to all this
but would JMS Stylet Mineral Oil be of any use or help?

it is advertised as a comprehensive product.
. . .seemingly addressing multiple problems.
- but it IS advertising.

Hiya Glee,
Any type of oil will only work on contact with the insect/bug you are trying to kill. Organic and non-organic oils work by suffocation. So if you don't hit the bug, but it comes along later after you spray... no effect.

Except for Neem Oil, the larvae in the soil is not effected by the use of oil. To keep from killing other beneficial organisms in the soil we apply specific nematodes (meaning they attack the pest you want to kill without harming earthworms, lady bugs, praying mantis, etc.) Or you use specific bacteria that, like nematodes, target and kill the specific damaging pest.

try to find some neem cake fertilizer put down as per instructions,grubs of all kinds gone try it youll like it. the other benefit its also fertilizer.

We use neem cake to kill root knot nematodes. I've always been afraid to use it after adding beneficial nematodes. The nursery where I buy mine said not to use neem with beneficial nematodes and to be very careful with any other chemicals in that area because they are sensitive to even organic products.

Goggle neem oil, neem cake, and read about neem. your nursery don't know what their talking about or don't know about neem. after many years of using everything on the nursey shelf.don't use anything but oil and cake now works for me just fine.we have more bugs on this island than i ever seen on the mainland. but none in the garden.

I don't have bug problems in the garden either and I'd put south TX in the top ten for bugs! I use neem to kill root knot nematodes and if it's bad enough, to stop powdery mildew. Neem is toxic to bees, so I am very careful when using it because honeybees have a hard enough time down here. I also use neem to kill fleas on the dogs, it's a wonderful skin conditioner and is the best thing for dry skin on dogs.
My local nursery has been growing in this area for 20 years. She has 10 acres of tropical fruit and nut trees and is certified organic. She uses and sells many neem products.
My greenhouse inspector years ago was from India. He told me about the benefits of neem.

Now, now fellow gardeners... no arm wrestling over who has the most bugs. Besides Ohio has you all beat hands down. *snicker*

But Dovey, have you heard about the heated debate here in Texas?? They can't decide if the TX state bird should be the mosquito or the palmetto bug(a giant flying cockroach).

*LOL*

Oh my gosh... I hate palmetto bugs, yuck!

Hey ya all Texans...........what happened to your famous horney toads? I tried to locate one for my grandson the last time I hunted near SanAngelos. They said only that they have been gone for quite some time. I had one in 1950's that was a bug eating machine. It lived for four or five years.

Those are on the endangered species list. I haven't seen one in over 3 years.
I have several different kinds of lizards and toads in the garden, they're all bug eating machines! The only thing I've had to spray for was corn worms (not eating the ears, but eating the leaves). I used thuricide(Bt).

That BT is pretty good for a lot of situations. Good for you! I have used very little chemistry on my property for over fifty years of gardening. When I do it is for a spot application only. We have frogs. They are good posion in the patch indicators. They can not stand up to much if any chemistry. Our ribbon snakes harvest a few frogs. An occasional black snake will work on the mice and chippy population. My garden worm count is ten per shovel turn at the height of the worm season. The organic content by test is fifteen percent and has been maintained at that level for twenty or more years.

When they tilled my garden the first time, not a worm to be found. I've got earthworms now. We started planting another orchard and the holes we dug close to the gardens had a few earthworms, the ones out farther had none.
Haven't had the soil tested this year (I keep meaning to get to the FSA office), but I know the soil has a lot more organic matter now than it did. I'll have it tested before fall planting.

Above all other methods of judging soil improvement the worm count can not be overlooked as a very good and valid bit of worthy knowlege. The worm count will not improve if the general soil conditon and organic content has not been improved.

A quick update:
The application of Beneficial nematodes, (which we have done twice now) has worked extraordinarily well.
We actually have squash where we only had bugs the year before.


Dove

Dovey, that is great to know. Did you apply them with a hose end sprayer or did you use a bucket of water? Did you wet the soil really well first? The reason I'm asking is because the first application I made of BN's worked well, the second app didn't do so well.

The soil was moist (I watered well yesterday) and I had been watching the weather hoping for a forecast of rain. Sure enough we were lucky got a good rain later in the afternoon.

I soaked them in a garden bucket and the used my watering can with the sprinkle attachment. It doesn't take much as there is suppose to be millions in each package.
I put about 4 cups of nematode water into the watering can, filled it the rest of the way with tap water and went though the garden row by row. Then around the flower beds doing the same thing.
I buried the nematode carrier in the squash patch area of the garden because that area is hit the hardest.

I think that is what I will do when I apply them next time. We used a hose end sprayer and didn't remove the screen, so didn't get good coverage (that's what the nursery lady said anyway). I had wet the soil first, then watered it good afterward. Someone said when the soil temp is over 90*, they die, so maybe I should wait till late fall before trying again.
We got a little rain this week!

Do your temps stay high all night?

Even if the soil surface temp is 90, a couple of inches below the surface should be much cooler. Mulch is a must as well.

When the days are hot and clear we apply the Nematodes at dusk, after things have cooled down. That gives the little guys time to work down into the soil during the night. Once they are in the moist soil, sheltered by mulch, they should be fine. Don't let the soil dry out - keep the ground moist.

Temps drop into the 70's at night. I have everything mulched. I can apply them at dusk.
I'll give the little guys one more try. I know it really made a huge difference in the cucumber beetle and cutworm population after the first application. Now if I could find something to kill leaf footed beetles I'd be set!

I think the watering can application is much better than any ordinary pressure sprayer.

Calalily,
Your comment sent me on a search and to my amazement I couldn't find much of anything about destroying Leaf-footed bugs... yikes!
Some say they are not destructive to adult plants... yeah right - never experienced that before.
Almost all say soapy water will make them scoff at such a feeble attempt - I thought I heard giggling.
One recommends Pyrethrin - scary stuff that is also used to make nerve gas - organic isn't necessarily safe.

Then I read birds eat them (not true - birds don't like stinky bugs - that's why they don't eat Japanese Beetles), snakes, lizards... ok, but what happens if you don't have any snakes or lizzards around because the birds keep eating them?

Perhaps you can purchase Parasitic flies such as the tachinid fly or Assassin bugs...?
Anyway, it seems that your birds, frogs, lizards, etc are not doing the job.

I could not find it written anywhere, but maybe... just maybe the nematodes will prevent next year's crop. (Leaf Footed Bugs have a once a year life cycle, so I suppose it's too late to get them in the larvae stage)

In the mean time, try Citrus oil, I hear the acid in the oil is strong enough to penetrate the armor of the leaf footed bug.

Toxic is toxic. It doesn't matter if it's organic or not. But the benefit of using pyrethrin is that it breaks down fast, and doesn't linger to continue poisoning your environment...

The average half-life of permethrin in soil is 40 days. (half-life is the amount of time required for half of the original amount of a chemical to break down and disperse form the original area of application)