'Shirazz' - 1 Yr. Later

How's your's doing? Mine, planted late May 2008 came through a hot summer of full sun with sometimes windy conditions and the -17° winter with no die back what so ever. It's just about 1/3 leafed out now and it's stunning at this stage. I did some corrective pruning in early January and will complete the pruning process January 2010. I give it 1" water every week through drip irrigation. Other than that, I'd say this one's a definite winner in the easy care and hardiness department. The picture is a little blurry because it's really windy here today. I also learned it's a sport of 'Geisha'. Some of you might already know that but it's news to me.

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=PP18728.PN.&OS=PN/PP18728&RS=PN/PP18728

Looking good Snapple. :-) Glad that it came through the winter, sun and wind so well.

snapple thanks for starting this thread again - i was going to do the same and you beat me to it - my shirazz came through the same as yours - hardly any die back and looks GREAT or FANTASTIC - it is my favorite jm - i'll post pics soon!!

the shirazz is GREAT!!

My Shirazz is looking good as well...but out here the summer is a much bigger problem than the winter! LOL It was looking a bit ratty by the end of last summer, but it's looking good now. But I have to say that although I love Shirazz's colors, Butterfly definitely handled the summer better.

Here in the Midwest, it's the complete opposite, at least for me. They both seem to take the summers well, but Butterfly doesn't handle winters as well as Shiraz. Shiraz comes through without a single bit of die back, but Butterfly has all kinds of damage. Shiraz's color seems to hold better overall during the summer as well, while Butterfly seems to fade more.

Shirazz seems exceptionally well adapted to midwest conditions. My other great performer was Uki gumo. Not a lick of die back and this spring's growth was explosive. It's more sheltered compared to the Shirazz, but I still expected more damage from the extreme cold. I still wouldn't give Uki gumo full sun or expose it to high wind though. Those leaves are mighty delicate.

My sister lives in Cleveland and loves JM's, after I saw your post about how well Shirazz did over your winter I suggested that she look for that one--hopefully prices are a bit lower this year than they were last year!

I hope so too. I looked at them this spring in the garden centers and prices were still kind of steep. Since your sister is from Cleveland ( my mother's side of the family is from there and still lives there) she probably knows Petitti's. Their stock is so exceptional and their prices so reasonable that I drive the 1hr 45min one way just to plant shop there.

http://www.petittigardencenter.com/

Guess they must be good if you're willing to drive that far! I'm sure she probably already knows of them but in case not I'll let her know.

i had the same experience with the butterfly compared to the shirazz - i had the butterfly in a large container and wrapped in burlap under the deck protected from wind - still has some minor die back and one main branch is discolored although still alive. it is planted this year so we'll see how it handles next winter.

Danger Will Robinson...

I lusted after this plant from the first time its seductive pink coloration flirted with me from across a crowded nursery. The price tag led me to exercise some uncharacteristic restraint & I checked them out at several nurseries before actually buying one. A very knowledgeable plantswoman told me that they had them a year earlier and found them "unremarkable" and that there are two wholesale growers producing them which might account for the difference in coloration observed at her nursery and the others that I saw. She recommended waiting and watching to see what happens with the tree over the next few years before buying one. I being smitten and foolish went back to the nursery where the most vividly-hued specemins were, got one, brought it home, planted it in a huge pot & thrilled whenever I saw it from my kitchen window or when outside playing with my other green pals or canine co-gardeners. (half day sun)

Shirazz sailed through our particularly harsh winter (yes, I know that in zone 8 we don't know what winter is but, for us, harsh) with aplomb. Her leaves unfruling this spring thrilled me & then it happened... The majority of leaves on the tree (about 6 feet high) looked like acer palmatum 'geisha', a lovely plant, indeed, but not Shirazz. A few leaves at some branch tips retained the Shirazz coloration while others were a lovely coral pink. In talking with someone else at a local nursery that carries the plant, she said that sometimes the graft overtakes the plant and it reverts to the graft stock. She recommended cutting off the leaves and branches that had the other coloration but that would exfoliate most of the tree and leave me with a Charley Brown or Dr. Seuss stick with about 3 branches and 10 leaves. While minimalism seems to work some gardens, this simply wouldn't do for me or I suspect for the health of the plant.

Has anyone ever heard of rootstock overtaking the grafted material? This is not growth coming from the roots or below the graft line but established branches that last year were entirely Shirazzesque.

Being a total fool, I actually considered buying another but have decided that 1) my credit card needs no more nursery miles for a while, 2) perhaps I should show SOME restraint, 3) Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

I don't think that's the rootstock taking over since you're not seeing growth from below the graft. Some variegated plants are more stable than others. The less stable ones can get branches that will revert back to being non-variegated from time to time, and some plants will do this more than others. The non-variegated growth is typically more vigorous so it's usually best to prune it off--although the only experience I have with this is when the non-variegated part is green--if it's a color instead then it may not be quite as vigorous as green would be. I have 'Butterfly' and every year it always puts out some branches that are all green vs variegated and I trim them off. I didn't notice anything like that going on with my Shirazz this year, it looks just as nice as it did last year but good to know that this can happen so I'll keep my eye out.

That's a really unfortunate experience. I'm glad you posted that so other's can be aware. On my Shirazz I had one bud on one branch that produced Geisha leaves. I don't think it's graft overtaking the host. IMHO it's Shirazz itself possibly sporting or, most likely, reverting. I don't think Shirazz is as stable as Duncan & Davies, the patent holder, reported it to be. This year the same Geisha leaves unfurled from the same branch bud. I removed the entire branch. Luckily for me it was very minor.

Do you still have the tree? I'd suggest you e-mail a photo of it to Duncan & Davies in New Zealand. It would be interesting to hear how they respond. The question I would ask them is who supplies the scion wood? It's the scion wood that's the problem.
http://www.duncananddavies.com/contact.html

When you get a JM as gorgeous as Shirazz that tolerates -17° winter temperatures, full sun and wind it's nothing short of a miracle. So, I'm willing to remove an occaisional sport. Defoliating the whole tree is another matter entirely. Especially one this expensive. I think someone owes you a new tree.

i also have had a couple branches of i should say leaves that were not shirazz, same thing happens with my butterfly although more with the butterfly, i just snip them off. with shirazz i did not have any this year only last.

btw - i have a small giesha and it is a good looking tree!

Reversions and sports are all part of the game in introducing new cultivars. It's not confined to trees. I have a hosta 'Sun Power' that has produced two sports - so far. Same clump, two entirely different sports. I was on a hosta web site for patented hostas and there were 87 registered sports of 'Sun Power'! One of the sports is not much to look at. The second one however, if it could be reproduced and if it stays stable, could possibly work into something. For now I'm calling it Harlequin, althouhg I think that name is already taken. The leaves are chartreuse on one half and dark green on the other half. Makes for an interesting looking plant.

Thanks for the responses! I love geisha as well but she is a somewhat less expensive tree. Still have my reverting Shirazz and love what it is becoming. Thanks for the information about Duncan and Davies, I just emailed them!



This message was edited Jun 21, 2009 6:20 PM

Herpst: Be sure to let us all know what you find out from Duncan and Davies. I get a few sports, but overall not many. This spring and early summer has been very wet and cool so far, with the coloration of my Shirazz not as bright and pretty as the two years previous. Still a great tree though, with no winter damage after -12º in January.

They colored up here in great fashion hosiergreen. Maybe it's a local weather phenomenon? I've been reccomending this JM to everybody. After hearing herpst's experience it's off my list. Nurseries don't give replacement guarantees for reversions.

mine colored up nicely as well although i do not think it held its color as long due to the overcast skies and rain - i saw a few under shade netting at the nursery i bought mine at and they had the mid season green early in spring - this tree needs some sun for color - mine still has color although the inside leaves are turning.

snapple i am still strongly recommending shirazz - i'd like to see some pictures of what herpst is talking about - and after going out and looking at the geisha and the shirazz i do not buy that sports of the shirazz look at all like geisha.

That's interesting wha. Whether it's reversion or sporting, it causes me concern. Especially since I've had some Geisha leaves appear on mine twice. I'm just not comfortable telling my friends to spend that much money if there's a risk.

I too would like to see a photo. Wish I'd thought to ask.

snapple how did your beni hime do through the winter?

It came through just fine outdoors! Minimal dieback. It was in a shelterd windless location and was nealy completely buried by snow during the worst of the sub zero temps. I'm sure that helped a lot. It's in a pot out by my pond and looks great. Got some growing to do. Actually I over potted. I won't need to repot for a long, long, long time. My family got me an expensive custom made fiberglass pot for Christmas just for the beni hime and I didn't want to dissapoint them.

mine did not fair as well - actually all four i purchased last fall had serious die back problems - all where is a protected area - beni hime died after showing some signs of life and i have since repalced it and will give it one more try - mine is also in a container on the patio - maybe with a full growing season it will do better - i plan to bring it in the gargage for the winter until it is larger along with several others.

That's bad news. I think I got lucky in that we had a 20" snowfall just before the extreme cold hit. Mine will be garaged this winter too. I also had a Kamigata that was with the beni hime. It faired about the same. I really, really like the Kamigata. It's so different.

fortunately i was able to get two of the four replaced although they were out of beni hime and i found it at wildwood.

Hi Gang,

Sent emails to Duncan and Davies but they kept bouncing back as undeliverable. I'll dig up my camera and post a picture of my Shirazz. Really a beautiful tree and if y'all are having success with stability, perhaps my experience is anomolous. The coloration is unique and I still may buy another & place it in the sunniest spot I have & see if that makes a difference.

herpst i would like to see a close up of some of the "geisha" growth as well.

Update on Shirazz "reversion" It seems that in the Pacific Northwest this tree needs as much direct sunlight as possible. Last summer, I got frustrated, pulled the tree out of it's 3 hours of direct sun location, and put it in a huge pot in the middle of a bed that gets sun all day. We had record breaking lows this winter (got down to 8 degrees - very dry, no snow cover & windy) Thought that the tree would probably have gone to acer heaven being in an unprotected pot and all . However, there was no die back & with the additional sun, the tree is more pink than ever. While all of the leaves don't have the grey/green centers, I'm pleased as punch with the extraordinary rose coloration and the hardiness of this tree. So, the lesson for color on this one is sun, sun, sun. (at least in the PNW)

same here herpst - a very hardy tree, likes full sun and is a winner all the way around! i have two now:)

Anyone have any new pictures to share? I purchased this JM this Spring and am curious to know more about it and if people are still happy with it. Is there any kind of "mature" pic out there on the internet, or is it still too new?

I think I have a nice spot for it, with more sun than most of my garden gets. I do have a question, though. Is it ok to plant it now, or should I wait until fall? It's a fairly good size, and still in the nursery pot while I've been working on the new bed, which is still about a week away from being ready to plant (that's where the Shirazz is going.) It's not terribly hot here yet...usually by mid July we get out the AC for the house.

hi norester - planting it now should be ok especially if you have a larger one which it sounds like you do. it will do fine in sun - if fact i would not be afraid of full sun - very hardy tree - it think i posted a picture on it on the spring jm shots in this forum

Bill

just checked and not a great picture as it was not fully leafed out - i will find a pic and post it later tonight.

Thanks Bill- I don't have full sun anywhere except the front yard, unforunately. If it works in the spot I have in mind, fine, and if not I guess I'll have to landscape the front yard, which I could care less about! I'd love to see a current pic of yours. Has it been a fast grower?

it was 4' tall and full when i got it and now it is 7' tall. one of those things where it looks the same till one day you are standing next to it and you notice it has grown.

my comment on full sun is that it can take full sun - mine has sugar maples blocking sun in the morning and the fron side gets full sun the rest of the day so it has grown with the sun and is fuller on one side.

i am sure it will do fine for you.

I think that the idea that this tree is a sport of Geisha is incorrect. I would say it aka shigitatsu sawa I think I said that before in this ridiculously long link. This tree is not for everyone ... it really does not have great form in my opinion .. at least here ..it may do better on the coasts .. color stinks in summer .. this is a brilliant full sun spring tree that may be too bright for some folks ... I always tell my gay friends it should be on the lead float at the gay pride parade yes it is that brilliant ( in spring only) For some folks this is a perfect tree others not so much ... I don't think it is the best thing since sliced bread but a nice tree .... but as said not for everyone ... it catches everuyoones eyeys that sees it but most cant see placement in their yards

david what do you really think?

here is a shot from last year - shirazz is on the left and bloodgood on the right - need to shot one from this year big difference

again last year in late july - it is a variegated green w/white - i do not think it's color stinks at all - just a big contrast to the spring show.

a closer look at the summer color with some new growth

close up of fall color