viburnum (which one is best here)??

Im moving my pink rose bushes out and in another location.Looking for a row of viburnum here. Love ones that as high as the fence if not higher.. so many to choose from any suggestions?? Should I go with two different types or one kind??

Most all Viburnums that will grow as tall as that fence, will also grow just as wide as they are tall, so they would grow quite a bit wider than the strip of mulch you currently have there(i.e. well out into the current lawn area). If that's OK with you then there are many different Viburnum to choose from. Burkwood Viburnums(Viburnum x burkwoodii) seem to be quite popular. Also, many Viburnums are popular for their fragrance as much as anything else. Viburnums like Fragrant Viburnum(V. farreri) and Koreanspice Viburnum(V. carlesii), Japanese Snowball Viburnum(Viburnum x(?) bodnantense, mostly only available in the cultivar '(Pink) Dawn') which is known for its very early spring or late winter fragrant flowers, and various other hybrids. There have been several Viburnums released by the National Arboretum's breeding program which are finding popularity. Too many to list really, but you can see a list of them all here: http://www.usna.usda.gov/Newintro/genus.html

Just scroll down to the Viburnums. Also, the Doublefile Viburnums(Viburnum plicatum f. tomentosum) are very popular with many and the National Arboretum has introduced a few of them as well. Just remember that Viburnums known for decorative fruit production need another compatible Viburnum around to fertilize their flowers in order to produce the fruit. That means a different, but similar Viburnum, not 2 of the same cultivar. A well discussed example is, "Blue Muffin" Viburnum(V. dentatum 'Christom') which is sold mostly for it's highly decorative blue berries after it flowers, but you need another Arrowwood Viburnum (V. dentatum, or another closely related species or hybrid like Bracted Arrowwood Viburnum(V. bracteatum)) which flowers at about the same time as "Blue Muffin" to get the blue berries.

It's really a matter of what qualities and characteristics you like the best as to which ones would be best for you. I kind of like Prague Viburnum (V. x pragense) because of it is large growing, evergreen, bone hardy, and puts on a nice flower display. The Doublefile Viburnums are a more refined looking bunch with long lasting small Hydrangea type flowers and often a layered looking growth habit. Then you have the Leatherleaf Viburnum(V. rhytidophyllum) and its hybrid Lantanaphyllum Viburnum (V. x rhytidophylloides), both of which have large bold evergreen(V. rhytidophyllum) to semi-evergreen(V. x rhytidophylloides) foliage and nice white flowers but usually little berry production. Mine also flower some in the fall during warm spells, as well as in the spring when most of their flowers open. You also have the Cranberry Viburnums, both the American Cranberry Viburnum (V. trilobum) and it's cousin the European Cranberry Viburnum(V. opulus). Both which have different looking(than most Viburnums) lobed leaves and put on great displays of red fruit in the fall along with decent red fall colors. Finally I like White-rod Viburnum(V. nudum), and especially the cultivar 'Winterthur' for it's glossy clean foliage, nice flowers, and great red-purple fall colors. All of these should get tall enough for you, but they all provide quite different looks and have different characteristics which make them appealing in different ways.

I, too, am trying different viburnums and am curious which you choose.

'Blue Muffin' has pretty blue berries, but it stinks, as do a few others that have less than a pleasant scent. Many however have a heavenly scent. I am a huge fan of the Viburnum. So many leaf shapes, colors and habit. But I too would worry that you don't have enough space for many of the tall ones. Perhaps one in the corner and one other paired with some other tall narrow shrubs. Patti

Well we were looking to widen the bed by a foot or two out..I seem to like Winterthur but not sure what else might go with it. Ive been looking for whole bush photos and can not seem to find one. Does that kind grown upright or more wide?? I like the glossy leaves..

Here's a photo of a Virburnum dentatum with an inset of the berries that come out in September. They bloom a little later than some other varieties. My hedge of these bushes is along the road, out in the open, and get pretty beat up from the wind. Your fence will provide a much more welcoming spot than mine.
They are just starting to leaf out now here in zone 5.

I would also recommend viburnum dentatum ('Autumn Jazz') for your fence line. Not only does it have nice blue berries, a good vase form, but also has spectacular fall color. Pictured here is my 'Autumn Jazz' in fall of 2008. It turns this color every year and it lasts for about a month.

What kind of dentatum do you have pastime? I like the red Autumn jazz. some one mentioned double file so will have to look that one up. Hold long have your Autumn Jazz been in that location to get that size.. Do you have any other planted next to them so theu get more berries??

jess2132000:

In order to comment more competently, I was hoping you'd say where Harleysville PA is, but I googled it anyway. You are amazingly in the same part of the world as where I was born. I have a brother that lives very nearby, too, around Lansdale. Nice country.

As to viburnum advice...kman_blue kinda already said most of it. There are so many good viburnums that you could use, it's not even funny. I'd advise a deliberate approach. Take a look in PlantFiles - there's lots of good information there:

http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/adv_search.php?searcher%5Bcommon%5D=&searcher%5Bfamily%5D=&searcher%5Bgenus%5D=viburnum&searcher%5Bspecies%5D=&searcher%5Bcultivar%5D=&searcher%5Bhybridizer%5D=&searcher%5Bgrex%5D=&search_prefs%5Bblank_cultivar%5D=&search_prefs%5Bsort_by%5D=genus&images_prefs=both&Search=Search

Also, if you are mobile and passionate, visit the Swarthmore College campus. They have quite a wonderful collection of plants comprising the landscape there, and it is very accessible. They happen to have a whole lot of viburnums, too, and most of them are around one building and its parking areas. They have a bookstore/welcome center that has good maps of the campus to guide you around.

I'd rather you did a little more background before I start winging all kinds of advice at you. And I have plenty.

To answer your question on Autumn Jazz - They have been in place about 15 years but it took only about 8 years to achieve full size. They are around 10-12 feet tall. Yes, you do have to plant a mix of cultivars to get berries. I would recommend Autumn Jazz and Chicago Lustre. They are similar in size and appearance and are readily availabe in the nurseries. I would recommend a 3:1 ratio - for every 3 of one cultivar, plant 1 of the second cultivar. There is a great deal of good information on this thread so I think you will make a good choice. Good luck.

Felisa

Kman blue, I'm just curious . . .

Why must there be two different cultivars for fertilization and berries? And, should they be of the same species (not sure if I mean genus - I'm trying to say "the second word" in the botanic name, i.e., Viburnum triloban, with triloban being species . . . I think)

For example, I have a Viburnum triloban "J.N. Select Red Wing" and a Viburnum dentatum "Blue Muffin". I've seen berries on the J.N., but not much on Blue Muffin. I just got a Doublefile (Marlessi, I think). Will that help?

sherriseden,

The first part of the botanical name is the genus, i.e. in Viburnum dentatum. The 2nd part is the species, again in Viburnum dentatum. So, you were right and using the correct terminology.

Well, as to why you need more than one cultivar to get fertilization and berries is because most flowering woody plants are self sterile including Viburnums. They won't self pollinate and thus won't produce fruit. So, if you had 5 plants of Viburnum dentatum "Blue Muffin", you have 5 genetically identical plants. The mechanisms in place to prevent self-pollination work with pollen from any one of the 5 plants because it's all genetically identical and there's no difference between each individual plants pollen. i.e. the flowers on one of the plants can't tell the difference between it's own pollen and the pollen from any of the other 4 plants, so rejects it all the same. That's the general run down. There are some specifics I kind of glossed over and some technical aspects of the mechanisms which avoid self-pollination which I simplified, but hopefully what I said isn't confusing and makes some sort of sense. I'm sure ViburnumValley can give you better run down too.

As to your specific question about your 3 Viburnums. I don't believe any of those 3 are closely related enough to cross pollinate each other. Remember you not only have to get Viburnums that flower at the same time, but that are also closely related. Another cultivar of V. dentatum or a cultivar of V. bracteatum that also flowers at around the same time as 'Blue Muffin" is what you need. I'm not sure, but I think there's also a couple of other species of Viburnum which might also work. There was a very long discussion about this specific issue with 'Blue Muffin' a couple of years ago. I don't recall what the consensus was to which cultivars and species worked for pollinating 'Blue Muffin'. The ViburnumValley probably remembers though!

This message was edited May 6, 2009 9:48 PM

sherriseden:

You are saying the right words. Viburnum is the genus; trilobum is the specific epithet. Together, Viburnum trilobum describes the species with the common name American cranberrybush viburnum.

Two non-identical plants of the same species that overlap in bloom time should ensure adequate cross-pollination. Viburnums as a genus perform relatively poorly as self-pollinators. There is probably a good biological or evolutionary reason for this, but I'm no botanist - others may be able to explain this attribute better. Through experience growing these plants for over twenty-five years, I can vouch for superior performance when dissimilar plants (NOT all one clone) are grown together.

The plants you list are all different species. You will have better fruiting with them, if you are able to plant another (different) selection each of Viburnum trilobum, Viburnum dentatum, and Viburnum plicatum f. tomentosum to go with the ones you have.

Well, we both got our words in edge-wise.

Blue Muffin® is one of the earlier blooming Arrowwoods, so you'd want another selection that blooms early in the sequence. Without doing a search (which you should for threads here on Arrowwood viburnum, pollination, etc.), I know that of the 25 or so different Arrowwoods that I grow, the early bunch include:

•Crimson Tide™
•Cardinal™
•Little Joe™
•Red Feather™
•Black Forest™
•Indian Summer™
•Red Regal™

You may have varying luck finding any one particular selection in your area. Check back if you have no luck at all finding any of these.

I don't know what kind of Viburnum dentatum I have. I bought 8 of them about 15 years ago. They are all the same variety. I do get lots of berries every year. The fall color is very pretty too. I also have a Doublefile near the house. It has a totally different growth pattern than the dentatums. I have a Korean Spice which is blooming now and the smell is wonderful. Reminds me of Opium perfume by Yves Saint Laurent. Very strong and spicey.

question re magnolia tree.
have a 20 year old magnolia tree. small, early spring blooms. the tree is too big, can it be topped to bring it down to size? we have limbed it up a few times over the year, but it is too close to the house and now waaaaay too tall.
would like to bring it down to size and proportion. thoughts?

pastime,
Someone that lives fairly close to you must have another cultivar of Viburnum dentatum growing in their yard and that's why you are getting berries. Their plants are cross pollinating your plants, and vise versa.

In Jess' case, there is not another V. dentatum growing close enough to cross pollinate his/her plant.

CG,
Since this thread is on viburnums, I would post your magnolia question in a completely new and separate thread in the trees, shrubs and conifers forum.
Mike

Here is Vib.carlesii in bloom. The scent is divine. Kind of dull in the summer, but the blooms are worth it's dull moments. Patti

Kman Blue and Viburnum Valley -

Thanks to both of you for taking the time to thoroughly answer my question - I really appreciate that! This really is a fascinating subject.

Since I'm in "shrub mode" this year and really like Viburnums, I think I will get a couple more. I plant things not only for me and hubby, but wildlife, too and I know birds like Viburnum berries - as long as they're not from super heavily hybridized ones, I believe.

Happy gardening!

How far apart should they be planted roughly??

I do have a couple other Viburnum in the yard. They are about 100 feet away from the dentatum on the other side of the property. I know one is a 'mohican', but the attached picture is a mystery. The label said 'henryi', but the leaves are wrong I think. It's about 8' tall and gets dropping clusters of the brightest red berries.. What do you think it really is?

This is a helpful site. Patti

http://www.hort.cornell.edu/VLB/key/W1.htm

How close do viburnums need to be to be effective for pollination?

pastime:

You probably won't be growing Viburnum henryi; I think that's about a zone 7-9 plant. See here:

http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/92072/

The image you show looks like one of the Viburnum opulus, Viburnum trilobum, or Viburnum sargentii clan. All of them have the lobed leaves like that, and can have very shiny clusters of red fruit that persist in the winter. There are a few selections in those species that have yellowish fruit.

They are pretty commonly available especially in northerly zones like yours.

Thanks ViburnumValley. Another mislabled plant and I didn't even get it at a big box store. When I went out there to take the picture I noticed it needs cleaning up. A lot of the older branches are dead. It got hit hard this winter.

I have two early Viburnams, one is the Blue Muffin, and about 100' away is a Viburnam Japanese Snowball, I am sure these two are sending instant messages to each other. LOL.

The rest of my Viburnams are later blooming, and frankly don't care if they miss the early show.
I have a lot of Trilobums that we planted for the birds as a hedge.

Just my observations.
Sher

Well the local nursery here has Doublefile shasta but afraid that would be too wide and not high enough. I heard there is a Mariesii that is more upright also.. Our local nursery has Asian Beauty and Alleghany and Mohicans only.. Asian Beautys and Mohicans look nice but not sure about the red berries look here.. Decisions are tough..