50+YO Modesto Ash trunk splitting?

OK, folks, what do you think here? Many many many years ago (30-or-so, I think) a similar specimen on the west side of my house split and was removed by the city. As I sat there at a street-side yard sale under the tree I could hear it screeching back and forth in the breeze and then saw the split. And it WAS split. What an experience THAT was!!

Keep in mind that these trees are generally infected and dying throughout town of some kind of species-specific disease. So they would be vulnerable to failure. This tree is infected. Note also that there are several large wounds where branches have broken off.

Now this tree appears to be splitting. This photo illustrates the apparent beginning of that splitting; a "dent" up the trunk on the south side of the trunk. This "dent" is relatively new.

Linda

This photo is facing nearly due east. Note the "dent" straight up the side, past the wound where I lost a limb several years ago. It is nearly opposite the "dent" shown in the photo above.

OK, and lastly, a bit closer to the trunk and more south-facing. BTW, it may not be apparent, but it is growing more over the street than earlier years. Not sure about it's "growing" such or if it's "leaning." (is there a difference?)

Lnda

G'Day
I gather that you want support for the removal of that tree? Just remember that you cannot replace that tree only put another in its place that will always be 50 yrs younger than the original. However if it is dangerous then you or the city have little choice but to remove it. If you really want to save the tree then there are two approaches I can think of worth trying. First and simplest is to remove a large amount of top and take the weight off of the trunk. The other is not so simple but works well that is to bore a large hole through the tree just below the fork and put a large bolt (threaded shaft) through the hole and tighten up big nuts on it. I think you would need at least 1" high tensile steel bolts and probably two decent sized washers. Given time the tree will heal over the injury and the nuts will not be visible.
Regards Brian

Hello, Brian, you are kind to respond to my questions. Especially as you start by highlighting my greatest sadness about the possible loss of this tree. This is probably the last of the older trees in my neighborhood. I lost one, I think I mention, probably nearly 30 years ago under similar circumstances. It rested between two similar aged Fruitless Mulberries, which I still have and am loathe to consider losing under any circumstances. The good and the bad news about the Mulberries is that they are mine, owned by the homeowner. They have pruned one of them closest to the curb in years past, as it threatened their property and the continually dropping skirt beats up their city-owned refuse trucks. More recently they have refused to prune it, stating that it is a cultivar they have never planted, thus it is not theirs and is my responsibility. Well, you get the drift.

The tree mentioned here is a city-owned tree in a city-owned parking strip. You can see numerous photos I've submitted to the PlantFiles at http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/61027/ The trunk is, if I recall correctly, 8 feet around. If I wanted it cut down for "whatever" they would not do so. When it needs pruning and I ask to have it pruned, they add it to the end of their lengthy to-do list. If I were to mention that it is at risk of falling apart they would be out here tomorrow, cut it down, grind the stump out, and come back in several weeks with a replacement. Bolt it? Not in your dreams! They would never consider doing such work. Given the disease status of the trees I'm wondering if it would pay to do so, in any event, although it seems to be healthy, except for the obviously rotting wounds from the broken limbs (rotted at the time of the break, BTW, which is telling). I haven't a clue as to the lifeline of this tree, BTW. Do they live to be 75 years old?

The tree lover in me contemplates simply having an arborist come out and do the work for me on The City's tree, sly dog that I am. But if it has only another 5 years of life remaining I question the financial wisdom of doing that. Ditto the trimming of major branches, but there are only 3 remaining, as I recall (it's nighttime and dark out). They did come out two years ago and tip off the limbs which were spreading out, which does speak to the possibility that they observed the trunk damage, doesn't it? I'll include a snapshot of the nearby Modesto ash and cherry so you can see the shabby work they can do. Both of these trees were trimmed in 2007 and this is the second summer since that trimming. What a dreadful outcome for the work they doubtless had the best of intentions for. Although my own tree was trimmed at the same time and the outcome may simply speak to the overall health of the specimens, eh?

Here's a pic of the neighboring tree in November last year. My own tree at that time would have been in full green leaf, BTW, as they lose their leaves quite late. Note that they pruned out a single major limb some years ago and it's silhouette is a tad quirky. So you see the best of the best for it last year. We are once again in full leaf and the tree looks little better this season. Note, if you will, that the trunk of this tree is probably half the dimensions of mine, despite their being the same age. So, again, it would seem that this little specimen never really "took off," as it were.

Thanks agan,
Linda

G'Day
I am not familiar with your Modesto Ash so I have no idea of their age potential. 70 years is not a very great age for a tree so it might still have a long way to go as you said it looks quite healthy and I wonder if the rot where the limbs have broken off could be stopped with a good dose of fungicide. Do you know the name of the disease you mention affects the trees. A member closer to you might have some answers, at least they would probably know the tree and possibly its botanical name.
Do you have a service club, like Rotary, that might be interested in saving the tree? They often carry enough weight to convince Local Government that a job is worth doing.
Regards Brian

Modesto ash is Fraxinus velutina. I know that anthracnose and ash borer are common problems with them--I don't think they're planted much anymore because they're so susceptible to those.

You might consider having a certified arborist come out and look at the tree, they will probably know what is wrong with it, whether it's worth trying to save it, and what would be needed to save it. Then once you have that info, you can decide whether it's time to tell the city to come take it down, or if you want to sneak behind their backs and try to do something to save it.

Try to give your extension agent a call. They will stop by to see the tree. Also, you could ask them for
the names of the local MasterGardener group. Get in touch with them.

I have saved Junipers that were split by lightning. We would scarify the inside of the split, then
use a come along with a wrapping belt to wrap around the tree to bring the two sides together.
Then, we used drills to drill in long bolts with end washers and nuts. We left the strapping tape
on till the winter, then took it off. The tree grew together and became stronger, with no discernable
thickening of where the surgeons helped heal it.
LOL
Sheri
I would agree with ecrane, re: anthracnose and emerald ash borers. Its mighty terrible here now all
the ash are dead/dying. we have a firewood alert and caution to not carry firewood from any areas.

I had wanted to grow a large Green Ash in my front pasture,but that was in 2003, just before the
borers became activated here. Now, I don't dare. Even a Korean Mt.Ash I would hesitate to plant.
Sheri

That tree trunk has grown from codominant stems. It's in a very dangerous condition and should be assesed by a professional arborist immediately. Codominant trunks are always a hazard and when they get to be this large they're an extreme hazard. Given it's size it's unlikely that any cableing or bracing could secure it.

http://www.treeworld.info/attachments/f2/6531d1215360059-tree-trunk-split-storm-split1.jpg
http://www.forestryimages.org/browse/detail.cfm?imgnum=1397078

Above are a couple of images that mirror your problem. My advice to you for your safety and the safety of the public is to get the City's attention ASAP.

This message was edited May 15, 2009 4:12 PM

Oh my, such a sad thing to contemplate. I love this tree in my parking strip. It is huge, well-loved for the many years I have lived here.

But ... you are right in that it appears to be failing. I have watched it, hoping that it would be one of those which might survive the disease and species deficits others have suffered. Note the one just down the street, sadly small, neglected, pruned to its present awful look. Moreover, it also has a similar split trunk. And look at the dreadful pruning of the cherry-thingee tree next door! What dreadful work.

The City has put it on its "visit" list within the next two weeks. They will replace it with one of two somethingorother trees this coming fall, if they must remove it. The possibility that it might be removed saddens me so.

But, thanks for the information which validates my suspicions about its condition, nevertheless. This corner is a popular corner with families walking through and much traffic. So, it makes sense that its condition must be reported so that the city can take responsibility for its own potential liability. The work required to "save" it, if it's even possible to do so, is well beyond my financial resources.

So, there you go. I'll update you with their visit.

Linda (weeping)

You've done the right thing. One bad storm could put a torque on one of the codominant stems. That's a common way they suddenly split. At least your city replaces. Here the economy is so bad that there is no actgive tree replacement program. The ash trees are dying by the thousands, whole neighborhoods have been laid bare and exposed to the scorching sun. These are huge old ash trees that shaded entire streets. It looks like a war zone. Good luck with the replacement choices.

A word about Korean Mountain Ash - This tree is Sorbus alnifolia. It belongs to an entirely different Genus than the common Ash tree . The common Ash tree is Fraxinus pennsylvanica. While both are susceptible to borers, only Fraxinus pennsylvanica is subject to the dreaded Emerald Ash borer (Agrilus planipennis Fairmaire) which is currently devastating the midwest and responsible for the ban on moving firewood. You can safely plant Korean Mountain Ash and not have it succumb to the Emerald Ash borer. However, if you read the hort sheet for this tree, you'll see that it has it's own problems with pests ( different borer) and diseases that might not make it a good choice either. I spent every summer growing up very near Hastings MI. ( Lake Odessa). I loved it up there.

http://www.hort.uconn.edu/plants/s/soraln/soraln1.html
http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/trees/handbook/th-3-99.pdf

Hi, Resin! Notice the parking strip planting in my landscape design work? I just keep a'workin' on it {chuckling}.

Ecrane, yep, somethin's munchin' on this tree. Take a look at these two photos. My free photography program has a facility which enlarges the pic beautifully. There is no missing the bug holes.

And, actually, it looks like the trimmers painted the internal wood after cutting the limbs off. There's a black coating which appears to have been painted on (there's that dang preposition again).

The first photo is the wound on the south side of the tree. The second is the north side of the tree.

Linda

{edited for spelling}

This message was edited May 17, 2009 9:54 PM

The north side ... .

That doesn't necessarily mean something is wrong with the tree, or the source of the problem. I have a tree that is bolted near the bottom with a wire up top (as mentioned above) and there's a large cavity near the bottom. All sorts of stuff happens in that spot - fungi, ants, woodpeckers, etc - and the arborist says it is still structurally sound and is just the tree healing itself. The dead stuff is dead and so the bugs and such are doing their thing. It all depends on how deep that dead goes.

Does look like a large hole though :o

Good luck!

Oh, Evie, I didn't mean to suggest that the munchin' is the cause of the trunk splitting. I was just responding to ecrane's remark about wood-munchin' critters. I've always figured that the visible holes were just what you suggest, opportunistic vegetarians. But then my plant consciousness didn't begin to open up until my membership at Dave's Garden. You don't even WANT to hear all the other stuff I've ignored out of ignorance (I didn't say that, did I?).

Thx for the heads-up.

Linda

Okay, the City was out today and left an "Investigation Report" stating that the "lowest leader (over street) will be removed."

I assume that means the limb on the right in this photo. My fear is that it will end up shaped like the one above (May 4, 11:07 pm). Hopefully the loss of this limb will not leave mine without leaves like the sad specimen down the street.

Well, it seems that they are willing to remove the single co-dominant stem/trunk, leaving the one over the sidewalk/lawn. I am grateful that the tree will remain, but ... .

BTW, if you look at the photo at May 15, 7:38 pm you'll see one of two Fruitless Mulberries on the west side of my house/patio which were planted at about the same time. I had them thinned this year and they are majestic, in my not so humble opinion. Root work and ongoing skirt maintenance notwithstanding, I love them!

Thanks for hanging out with me. I'll update you after the trim work.

Linda

{edited to add} I just noticed the white paint mark on the identified limb. It is the upright limb on the right in the photo.



This message was edited May 20, 2009 8:27 PM

Oh for crying out loud. Talk about taking the cheap way out. Plus, that tree will most likely die eventually from the severe "pruning". They bought safety and time, leaving you with a disfigured tree that's gonna die.

Well, Snapple, it will end up looking just like that tree I mention above, then. It is, afterall, a bad economy. And they save money like this during good economies.

I'm a County employee. We got word today that there were a dozen or more pink slips passed out in my department {sigh}. This is the second round of pinkies. So, as they say ... hang on, folks. The ride is long and bumpy!

Linda

Making the bill come due later isn't always sound financial planning. Having said that, I certainly hope there's no pink slip with your name on it in the future. We have 12% unemployment here. Dozens of City workers have been laid off. More cuts are to come. Because my community is heavily dependant on supplying parts to automakers there's no chance of recovery any time soon. We have empty store fronts every where. Seventy five police officers were laid off two weeks ago and there were three murders in as many days. One was an elderly woman beaten to death in her home and two were broad daylight, lunch time drive by shootings in the heart of the downtown business district. My DH and I have to go down town to the courthouse sometime in the next couple of weeks. We can't figure out a route that might not get us killed. It's bumpy all right. There's no avoid "high crIme areas" navigation tool on the GPS!

Seriously, I hope the tree hangs on in decent fashion so that you still have some of that magnificent shade for a good time to come.

Yeah, Snapple, it's a mess, isn't it? The unemployment rate in the Central Valley of California ranges anywhere from 15+% to 20+%; it's 17% here. It's a financially frightening time for all of us throughout the country, throughout the world, for that matter. Warm thoughts to my gardening buddies. I feel so blessed to have the space to garden my stress away, LOL.

I certainly agree that "saving" my well-loved Modesto Ash in the described manner may not be the best thing for this specimen, but it's what I must live with. It would seem that I will retain my shade; the street will lose its shade. I'll photograph the outcome when the "deed is done." We'll see how it looks.

Thanks for your ideas and hang in there.
Linda

OK, the dastardly deed is done!

This is what I awoke to this morning.

Here's the dreaded "holey" main branch, having split as it fell. You can see that it split at nearly center to the branch, the hole visible earlier at approx 12 feet high visible through-&-through. Curiously, you can also see the nesting material in the even higher stem hole. I never saw any birds nesting up there, and doubt that a bunch of babies could have fledged out of there without my being aware of them (although you can see down feathers present). Most of this detail requires, BTW, that you are able to magnify the photo in your machine.

Here's the new profile of the tree due west. Note that it continues to appear as if it has a full crown, but a primary main limb, 1 of 3, is gone. The Modesto Ash in the foreground is one pruned under similar circumstances 2 years ago. Here's hoping that mine, much larger, BTW, looks better upon Spring leaf next year.

edited to add: Note that the only canopy visible is, for the most part, that which is my tree. The other two trees in the foreground, pruned here 2 years ago, have no leaf canopy to speak of, certainly nothing which alters the outline of my own tree pictured here. Sad, eh?



This message was edited Jun 18, 2009 2:37 PM

And here's a little memorial for the lost limb.